Giant Mystery Wave Spotted in Atmosphere of Venus

It went sailing off into deep space for 5 years and all it took was 20 minutes of control thruster to bring it back into Venus' orbit?

You really don't know much about how space travel works, do you? Spacecraft can't simply turn around and come back the other way if they miss their target the first time. When the engines malfunctioned during the first attempt, Akatsuki was unable to slow down enough to be captured by the gravity of Venus. The end result is that the spacecraft controllers needed to recalculate the solar orbit of the probe, compare it to Venus, calculate how much fuel was left for trajectory adjustments and a second orbit insertion burn, and then work out how they could combine these to get the probe back to Venus to make the attempt. Getting "back" to Venus doesn't mean "turning around and flying back towards the planet". It means trying to get the probe's new solar orbit to intersect the orbit of Venus again at a point in the future, and the best option was obviously calculated to be five years later (probably to use the minimal amount of fuel so that the probe still had enough to perform the Venus orbit insertion burn at the end).

a reply to: Mogget

Did it go sailing off into deep space?

a reply to: MatterOfPerspective

What do you mean by sailing off into deep space exactly?

Its not as if the thing ended up zooming off to the Oort cloud. As previously explained, its orbital path was corrected so that it could, eventually, get to Venus, except by a slightly more circuitous and tedious route than was initially planned for.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Its not as if the thing ended up zooming off to the Oort cloud.

Sigh.....I know.

"Sailing off into deep space" makes it sound like it did. They were not my words. The qoutes that were posted did not simply say that it settled in a nearby orbit around the sun.

I admit that I could've looked into it myself before I said anything, but all I really did was ask a question.

originally posted by: MatterOfPerspective
a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Yep, that's pretty much what happened:

It went sailing off into deep space for 5 years and all it took was 20 minutes of control thruster to bring it back into Venus' orbit?

Is this like when Darth Vader's Tie fighter spun out of control, sailing off into deep space but he managed to regain control of it, using the Force?

no it took 5 yrs for Venus to be in a spot to make another attempt . All they have are thrusters they aren't going to do much correcting

a reply to: dragonridr

So it didn't go sailing off into deep space then and it was nothing like Darth Vader's little mishap?

Spacecraft leaving Earth, if they achieve a high enough speed (orbital velocities) will go into orbit around the Earth.

I the spacecraft while in orbit around the Earth, fires it's engines again, it will elongate that orbit where apogee (the farther point of the orbit) will move outward (think of an oval getting stretched out). If apogee gets stretched out enough, the spacecraft will leave orbit about the Earth (at about 1.5 million kilometers).

When that happens, the spacecraft is no longer under the dominant gravitation of the Earth, but is now in solar orbit, as the Sun's gravity will now be dominant to it.

Depending upon when the spacecraft fired it's engines and for how long, will determine what that orbit will look like. It will either be a stretched out orbit diving closer towards the sun and inner planets, or stretching out towards the outer planets, or in a orbit around the sun close to Earth's orbit about the sun.

To get to Venus, you want that orbit to head towards the sun, but you also want it to come close enough to Venus so that the gravity of Venus will influence (help slow down and change direction) of your spacecraft.

Once your space craft hits that point, you fire it's engines again, in a direction that will slow it's forward motion so that it's orbit will change from around the Sun to a orbit around Venus.

If you are too far from Venus, or your engines do not fire at the correct time, or for not long enough, your craft will continue on it's orbit around the Sun instead of where it was suppose to go.

However, because it's in orbit about the sun now, and because the orbit will cross the orbital path of Venus, it means that over time at some point, your craft and Venus will be the right spot to attempt an orbital insertion again.

Orbital Mechanics

Orbital mechanics - wiki

a reply to: SoulSurfer

This guy is an idiot; he falls vicitm to a couple of logical fallacies. He obviously has no idea what a gravity wave is (see this post for an explanation) and when he describes half the planet as 'extremely cold' he probably thinks it true.

There is not much of a temperature differential between the sunward face and leeward face of Venus. Thanks to the thickness of the atmosphere, the leeward side of the planet is still just as hot as the sunward side.

The surface of Venus is effectively isothermal; it retains a constant temperature not only between day and night sides but between the equator and the poles.[3][72] Venus's minute axial tilt—less than 3°, compared to 23° on Earth—also minimises seasonal temperature variation.[73] The only appreciable variation in temperature occurs with altitude.

Wiki

Without knowing where the diagram he was using to infer 'one side hot the other side cold' came from, we have no way to know what it actually represented.

originally posted by: MatterOfPerspective a reply to: dragonridr

So it didn't go sailing off into deep space then and it was nothing like Darth Vader's little mishap?

No where in the OP article does it say, "deep space," that was your addition. The article in the OP stated, "...Akatsuki went zooming off into space." You're the one that inferred the 'deep space' phrase when it was nowhere in the posted article.

And yet you've used the phrase several times. That's called a straw man, by the way...

You've been given links to pages that discuss orbital mechanics and have seemingly ignored them.

From my perspective, that is troll behavior; see what I did there?

Again:

Stick to the topic of the OP.

Discuss the subject of the thread.

Not Each Other.

That is considered Off Topic and those posts will be removed.

Continue to do it, and posting rights will be removed.

Do not reply to this post.

The Observers has an interesting article on this:

Although smaller scale gravity waves have been seen near to ground level on Venus before, the scale of this new feature seems to be extremely large, probably the largest in the solar system. In fact it is unclear whether it is even possible for gravity waves to cause such a big effect.

The discovery illustrates that, although we can explain some of the features of the thick, fast Venus atmosphere, it appears that low-altitude atmospheric dynamics are not fully understood yet. But we are slowly uncovering the planet’s secrets and the latest study is certainly making waves.

In the above excerpt is linked a piece on the ESA website which has the following illustration:


This is very similar to the illustration provided in this post, wherein the same phenomenon is described on earth. As the air moves over the terrain in which a large difference in elevation exists, the flow of air is disrupted. This disruption causes a bow wave.

Something similar happens in deep space:

The Orion Nebula is a very active star forming region containing new stars and massive amounts of dust and gas. As stars form, streams of gas get blown away by their stellar wind. Occasionally these streams of gas collide forming a crescent-shaped feature called a bow shock wave. You can see an example of a bow shock wave in the center of the image above. If you look closely, you can see another bow shock wave around another star in the upper left corner of the image.

Giant Bow Shock in Space

Keep in mind, that the images of the bow wave in Venus' atmosphere were taken in infrared and ultraviolet wavelengths as the disturbance is not visible in wavelengths to which our eyes are accustomed.

What I find most fascinating about all of this is that no matter the scale, planetary as on Venus or stellar as in the Orion Nebular, we have very similar structures forming from very similar happenings. On the planetary scale we have the wind driven across mountainous terrain, on the stellar scale we have solar wind from multiple stars being driven against the stellar wind of one star. The results of both are a standing wave pattern. This is the very same thing that happens when a boat travels through water; a bow wave.

I am looking forward to seeing what other discoveries the Akatsuki satellite makes over the course of its mission. Maybe something that would lead to DBCowboy's aerial bacteria?

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Aye, I understand that, and I agree with you on the point . But something else he says is that the disturbance in the waves is being caused by another source of helium which isn't the sun. His theory is that a brown dwarf is the cause.
I bring this up because the only source for helium particles should be the sun and stars aye?

That is the part that bugs me. BPearthwatch YT channel has also been reporting on similar things.
I was wondering if you could explore the possibility of planet X being the cause of these waves.


Edit: Whatever is affecting Venus is also Affecting us.

originally posted by: SoulSurfer
a reply to: jadedANDcynical
he says is that the disturbance in the waves is being caused by another source of helium which isn't the sun. His theory is that a brown dwarf is the cause.

Nope, that sounds like gibberish to me. It's not like there's helium streaming from the Sun or any other stellar object, and even if there were, how on earth would it cause "disturbance in the waves"? No brown dwarfs have ever been detected anywhere near the Solar System, so how can one a few light years away affect Venus.

Sorry, but that guy's inventing stuff as he goes along.

the observed shock wave to the Venus atmosphere was likely a glancing blow with a unseen mass composed of dark matter....

the same kind of unseen quanta which has caused the recent time-line distortions here on Earth and on half the recently launched fleet of orbiting satellites where 9-of the-18 had sudden atomic clock malfunctions or stoppages


the invisible wave seems to have hit Venus along the trajectory that has already partially hit Earth
the energy/dark-matter mass is traveling about the same speeds as comets or other space rocks but nowhere near light speed


well.... that's only one mans opinion,



BUT.... this poster might have a similar thing on his mind...SoulSurfer

a reply to: SoulSurfer

Ok, now this video was more interesting. From what I could tell, he did not mention anything about a cause for the increasing amount of cosmic rays or the decreasing of the solar cycle.

I do think that these occurrences are related, but that is getting somewhat off topic for this particular thread. I have some ideas as to how it may relate to what this video was referring but believe it would be better suited to a separate thread.

I believe the helium in the solar system not produced by the son probably has more to do with what this thread discusses: Is the Local Interstellar Cloud affecting us in any way?

By planet X, are you referring to the mythical Niburu or the planet that is calculated to exist due to perturbations in the outer planets' orbits and is out beyond the orbit of Uranus but has yet to be observed?

It is clearly planet x that is causing this! it is within venus orbit as it happens *passing in months by the looks of it..

I saw it yesterday evening again, i'll be updating my thread with the pics asap.

Get ready Guys!

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

It's a bit complicated to explain because the info is scattered through out various videos. (So you can catch up with what I know so far, and why it is related to venus.).

Its making sense to me but its not something I am ready to teach since I am still processing the info myself.)

But can I ask you to back track on most of Bpearthwatches videos, (and also back track the one you called idiot), . because even though he is wrong on some things, he does make sense in others. Combine these to channels plus your research and draw a conclusion. (Stay open minded no matter what.).

I know I am giving you some homework, but I promise you it will make sense.

To me, it's a brown dwarf, nearing us.

a reply to: SoulSurfer

To me, it's a brown dwarf, nearing us.

Personally, I don't think that's likely as it would disrupt the orbits of the existing planets too much for them to have remained as stable as they are.

Now, that does not mean there isn't another large body out there.



The theoretical 9th planet (remember, Pluto was demoted to minor planet status) has yet to be directly observed, however it's affects can be calculated and the inference of it's orbit is around 20,000 earth years in length. It lies far outside the orbit of Pluto in the Kuiper belt.

Any object of substantial mass (say that of a brown dwarf) would not be able to swing inside the orbits of the inner planets (any of them) without completely disrupting the orbits of those planets; in other words us.

I may watch some of Bpearthwatches vids as he does at least seem to have more of an understanding than the other imbecile, but won't waste my time on the moronic one.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

The Planet Nine might exist, but no way it could influence Venus or any other known planets of the Solar System. Any such influence would have been detected ages ago.

One more time - anything happening on Venus is a local phenomenon, possibly influenced by the sun.