Who are the Knights of Saint Andrew?

I recently discovered that the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry has their own Knights called the Knights of Saint Andrew. From what I gather, they are an elite group and the successors of the Knights Templar (apparently after the Knights Templar were disbanded, some fled to Scotland and became the Knights of Saint Andrew). I have personally observed these Knights of Saint Andrew guarding doors to the Scottish Rite Cathedral, escorting leaders, and always surrounding the #1 guy ("Grand Inspector General" or something like that). They also have different hats and regalia (I have seen some wearing kilts, but this only seems to be for things like parades). I also heard them referring to each other by different titles and it seems they have their own rank structure. Their leader is called the "Knight Commander." The higher-ranking guys seem to have gold feather on their hats: some have one, some have two, and one guy (the "Commander") has three. The most interesting thing to me was that they wear a Cross of Saint Andrew on their hats, and that this is the same symbol that is at the very center of the 32nd Degree symbol (www.washingtondcschamberofsecrets.com...). They come off as nice guys but are very serious - even a little intense. They definitely seem to know exactly what is going on.

Does anyone know anything about these guys? I never really took notice of them before, but when I looked them up online I found that they are everywhere. Also, I thought there were only four parts to the Scottish Rite (Lodge of Perfection, Rose Croix, Council, and Consistory)? The Knights of Saint Andrew apparently have a "Chapter." Is this a hidden fifth part of the Scottish Rite?

originally posted by: OpSpec
From what I gather, they are an elite group and the successors of the Knights Templar (apparently after the Knights Templar were disbanded, some fled to Scotland and became the Knights of Saint Andrew).

No Masonic organization is directly traceable to the Knights Templar.

They only date from the 1990's as well.

On that topic about the Mason's, how do you get invited to become one ?

originally posted by: BigEd1
On that topic about the Mason's, how do you get invited to become one ?

First thing you do is find a lodge near you.
Then you approach one of the members.
You then utter these mystical words "Can I join?"

Thats the first steps.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: OpSpec
From what I gather, they are an elite group and the successors of the Knights Templar (apparently after the Knights Templar were disbanded, some fled to Scotland and became the Knights of Saint Andrew).

No Masonic organization is directly traceable to the Knights Templar.

I know that's the party line--no connection. But it seems to me a lot of the symbolism is the same. To any objective observer it looks like the Templars kind of shut down for a short while and re-emerged as the Masonic Order. Today's Masons protest too much. I don't believe the Masons even believe it.

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: OpSpec
From what I gather, they are an elite group and the successors of the Knights Templar (apparently after the Knights Templar were disbanded, some fled to Scotland and became the Knights of Saint Andrew).

No Masonic organization is directly traceable to the Knights Templar.

I know that's the party line--no connection. But it seems to me a lot of the symbolism is the same. To any objective observer it looks like the Templars kind of shut down for a short while and re-emerged as the Masonic Order. Today's Masons protest too much. I don't believe the Masons even believe it.

Protest? I doubt it, we just can't prove it. Hell, I'd love it if we could trace our lineage back that far.

But as for the KSA or Knights of St. Andrew, they are a sub group within the Scottish Rite. They provide the meals and all when we have reunions. I am sure they do more than that, and they are always looking for new members.

originally posted by: schuyler
I know that's the party line--no connection.

It is not just the 'party line', it is a historical one as well. No one has ben able to tie the Templars to anything contemporary at all, let alone Masonry.

But it seems to me a lot of the symbolism is the same.

Most of that was added long after the fact. Like this group mentioned above, they are only 25 years old. Not exactly dating to the Crusades.

To any objective observer it looks like the Templars kind of shut down for a short while and re-emerged as the Masonic Order. Today's Masons protest too much. I don't believe the Masons even believe it.

There is some pretty good circumstantial evidence that Masonry in some form predated the Templars. The whole Masonry/Templar thing came about in the 1800's when it was glamorous to associate yourself with these chivalric orders.

And it is not like I would have an issue with it one way or another, there just is no proof that shows that they were connected.

originally posted by: BigEd1
On that topic about the Mason's, how do you get invited to become one ?

Find a mason and ask. That's it. If you wait to be invited, you will likely grow old and die long before it happens.

a reply to: schuyler

At best there's circumstantial evidence. I've yet to find anything conclusive that ties freemasonry and templars together.

I'm sure quite a lot of Freemasons would be happy to be associated with templars though (no joke).

The Knights of St. Andrew is a service club for a Scottish Rite Valley. They can serve as an honor guard, flag bearers, servers during meals, fundraisers, stage crews for reunions, and so on. We wear a Scottish Glenngarry, and gold denotes a Past presiding officer (some call them Commanders, Chieftains, or just Venerable Master) and silver denotes junior officers as well as members. How a KSA chapter regails themselves is dependent on that chapter.

They are just a club for people who loke wearing kilts.

Here's a website, including details on how to join.

Not really secret.

Knights of St Andrew

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
It is not just the 'party line', it is a historical one as well. No one has ben able to tie the Templars to anything contemporary at all, let alone Masonry.

No one has been able to definitively tie the Templars to Freemasonry, because the most of the Templars were executed, and those that escaped went into hiding, emerging as other orders. The indications are that some Templars went to Scotland, and infiltrated the wall builders club, which became the Freemasons.

The Templars didn't announce "Hey, we're Templars, but now we're going to be called Freemasons."

If they did that, the Kings of the Earth would arrest all Freemasons and execute them. So, there's a good reason why nobody can trace the Freemason lineage definitively to the Templars.

It's the same thing with the Cult of Mithras. They vanished, the same way the Templars vanished.

However, if you look at the remnants of the things left back by the Cult of Mithras, you'll see easily, that the "same ideas" flowed into the Templars, and then into the Freemasons.

If these ideas and themes, the major "landmarks" of the orders, were not transported by men who were members, then it's a total mystery how such distinct orders could share the same ideas, and have so much in common.

So, while you can't find any "written records" declaring where Freemasons came from, "by their actions" they are known.

originally posted by: AMPTAH
No one has been able to definitively tie the Templars to Freemasonry, because the most of the Templars were executed, and those that escaped went into hiding, emerging as other orders. The indications are that some Templars went to Scotland, and infiltrated the wall builders club, which became the Freemasons.

So are we going to get to see your proof? Or how you reconcile this with the Regius Poem?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

So are we going to get to see your proof? Or how you reconcile this with the Regius Poem?

Here's an easy place to start.

The Cult of Mithras met in caves, and in "windowless rooms" often under many Churches.

Freemasons do exactly the same thing today, meetings are in "windowless rooms."


That's your first common clue.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Waiting for the proof, not conjecture.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: AMPTAH

Waiting for the proof, not conjecture.

What is proof?

You mean like mathematics?

That's not possible.

originally posted by: AMPTAH
What is proof?

What are you, 2?

Evidence.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: AMPTAH
What is proof?

What are you, 2?

Evidence.

Like I said in my 1st response. There is no definitive evidence. They didn't leave a written record. Which is how Freemasons attribute evidence to things concerning Freemasonry. They always reference some log book of meetings that took place.

The evidence is circumstantial.

It's found in the common elements used as "landmarks" of the crafts.

That's as close to "proof" as anyone will ever find.

a reply to: AMPTAH

I just believe they are people who wanted to separate themselves from the Dogmatic Institutions, Jurisdictions, Kingdoms and Empires that followed with a dogmatic faith. I believe the name insinuates Free, slave to "no one" or "something".

I consider it to be a movement almost like the Union Movement in the 1920:s and 1930:s.

Just my opinion though.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

So are we going to get to see your proof? Or how you reconcile this with the Regius Poem?

Here's an easy place to start.

The Cult of Mithras met in caves, and in "windowless rooms" often under many Churches.

Freemasons do exactly the same thing today, meetings are in "windowless rooms."


That's your first common clue.

The lodge in my town has windows. They're 2 floors up and close the curtains. It helps to keep signs secret so not just anyone can walk in pretending to be a Freemason.

Hardly makes anything linked with anything else.

Here's a question:
Do you openly show people you PIN number for you bank account or do you try and make sure nobody sees it?