Cleveland Clinic Doctor Fuels Vaccine Debate — Again

I did a search didnt see it.

So the gist of this article is that a leading and very well respected Doctor from the Cleveland Clinic, a prestigious medical institution, came out of the medical establishment closet 3 days ago against environmental toxins in general, and potentially toxic ingredients in many of the vaccines on the routine childhood vaccine schedules in most countries. He said this toxic stew we are born into and live in most our lives is responsible for a plethora of human disease and suffering including everything from simple inflammatory problems on one end of the undesirable afflictions spectrum, to full blown bang your head against the wall autism in the case of alleged vaccine injuries.

As you might expect the medical Establishment isnt very happy about all of this. After all you cant have a pre eminent medical professional and Director of Cleveland Clinics Wellness Institute coming out as casting doubt on the "safe and effective" alphabet soup of vaccines. But he diiiiiiiiid!

So the featured article here as you might expects takes the obligatory "attack the quack" line, employing all the usual ad homs and other juicy logical fallacies from their bag of retarded tricks, but since the kangaroo court jester tone is about all you will find in the MSM you might as well read it to get acquainted with the anti vaxxx movements latest new reluctant hero cum establishment punching bag of the week.

heres a nice little morsel from the article:

www.nbcnews.com... eveland-clinic-doctor-fuels-vaccine-debate-again-n704821

The Cleveland Clinic went into damage control mode Monday after the director of its Wellness Institute questioned the safety of vaccines in a blog post that blew up on social media. Dr. Daniel Neides questioned whether preservatives in childhood vaccines are safe for infants—despite decades of evidence showing that they are. AIDS Healthcare Foundation Offers Free Meningitis Vaccinations People receive a free meningitis vaccine from Dr. Wayne Chen at the AIDS Healthcare Foundation pharmacy on April 15, 2013 in Hollywood, California. Kevork Djansezian / Getty Images The post infuriated other medical doctors but heartened and emboldened the small — but extremely vocal — community of vaccine doubters.

And heres the link from the match that lit a fire under the Establishments behind. And i have to say....as an anti vaxxxer myself....im just frickin lovin this! HAHAHAHAHA

www.cleveland.com... -south-euclid/index.ssf/2017/01/make_2017_the_year_to_avoid_to.html#comments

a reply to: tribal

so the TL : DR translation is that you found one doctor out of the 10s of thousands and as he agrees with your delusion - that = vindication and validation ?

Through a hospital spokeswoman, Neides released this statment:

"I apologize and regret publishing a blog that has caused so much concern and confusion for the public and medical community. I fully support vaccinations and my concern was meant to be positive around the safety of them."
The Clinic responded by doubling down on its disavowal of Neides' column, saying that the health system is "fully committed to evidence-based medicine," and promising to take disciplinary action against Neides.

oops looks like he`s having second thoughts about it.


www.cleveland.com...

a reply to: Tardacus

well yeah of course. I think the dude literally didnt know the sh* storm that was headed his way. Hes probably a nerdy guy who immerses himself in his world and hasnt kept up with how society has become very radicalized on this issue and definitely very slanted against vaccine skeptics.

OR.....hes committing career suicide al a suicide by cop style on purpose or he has some kind of reason for this profoundly dangerous display of the middle finger to the establishment.

I dunno yet!

a reply to: ignorant_ape

haha, youre funny. You can use whatever attack word makes you feel sexy but it doesnt change the objective reality of the negative things we know about vaccines.

but you go ahead and pretend all is well on the sinking ship.....its cool by me.

"debate"

a reply to: tribal

He probably thought that nobody who matters actually reads his blog so it would be safe to put it on there.
He doesn`t feel that strongly about the vaccine issue that he`s ready to give up his career over it.

originally posted by: tribal
And i have to say....as an anti vaxxxer myself....im just frickin lovin this! HAHAHAHAHA

Why would you love the idea of re-introducing diseases amongst the human population in places that are already limited in education and prevention and medical treatment?

What an idiotic position to hold on a well known, documented process to help reduce and, in some cases, eliminate deadly diseases.

People like you are very strange. Glad I don't know you IRL -- I'd never want to be around you or your scabby kids

originally posted by: tribal

....society has become very radicalized on this issue and definitely very slanted against vaccine skeptics.

It would be more accurate to say that a very small segment of society has become radicalized into being very slanted against vaccines.

Radicalized would not be a term to describe the vast majority of people who understand the benefit of vaccines and sometimes get annoyed by people who don't.

Way to use the same tactics you disparage in the OP against those who disagree though. It's the first time I think I've been called radicalized as part of an ad-hominem attack. There is that achievement I guess.

a reply to: Tardacus

well if you read his blog post all the way through, which most probably wont, you will see he never once comes out totally against the theory of vaccine conferred immunity or any of the basic principles behind vaccination. What he DOES do is question the cooker cutter manner of distribution across the participating society and advocates for a more individual approach to vaccination.


honestly, who could argue with that? just seems too rational to me.

There is an emerging field of medicine called Genomic Medicine that literally makes current practice look like the stone age. This is what ive been talking about to anyone that will listen. Most doctors are almost a completely joke when it comes to emerging science and medicine. They are literally practicing the medicine they learned 20 to 50 years ago which compared to emerging science is like comparing Captain Caveman performing surgery with his club to the healing pods in the movie Elysium.

a reply to: tribal

You forgot to post a link to his peer reviewed research.

originally posted by: tribal
Most doctors are almost a completely joke when it comes to emerging science and medicine. They are literally practicing the medicine they learned 20 to 50 years ago which compared to emerging science is like comparing Captain Caveman performing surgery with his club to the healing pods in the movie Elysium.

Ah, sorry I wasn't aware you were trained in the field, being so quick to judge the years of practice and study it takes to become a medical practitioner.

Where did you get your medical training from, exactly? You neglected to say which bleeding-edge school of medicine and technology you went to that affords you the opinion you have on 'most doctors'. As a trained 'expert' you obviously know that 'emerging science and medicine' is not immediately practiced on humans until years of trials and significant evidence of their fundamental success. But what I am sayin? You already know this.

Oh by the way, Elysium, while a cool sci-fi film, was only that - a film. Technology like that, which I do not doubt our species will develop, is not for at least 100 years.

a reply to: noonebutme

i can dismiss your hacky attempt at a take down with this: if you have to be an expert to comment on something, you will comment on nothing, for no one is an expert at everything. By the way, your argument goes both directions. If i cannot comment or pass judgment on something i am not an expert in, neither are you as a non expert in that thing, able to legitimately assess the rightness of that thing, seeing as you ceded your critical thinking to the authority you are bowing down to. A classic appeal to authority fallacy. And before you say it, even if i was "expertly trained" in any medical field, it still by your faulty logic, would not permit me to comment on related medical fields of which i am not an expert. See how that works?

Would you like fries with that?

a reply to: Ksihkehe

its perfectly reasonable in my opinion to characterize people as radical who cannot do anything other than attack this man for presenting a dissenting opinion as dangerous to society and almost the same as committing war crimes and the like. If you haven't read all of the responses this guy has gotten from apparently pretty smart people its rather telling. These people are in full emotional assault mode, hardly a logical counter claim to be found, just "quack", "hack", "nutter" and so on.


so yes, people who talk like that to me are behaving in a borderline or distinctly radical manner. People who believe someone should have their otherwise perfectly healthy and happy, children taken away for not vaccinating are in my opinion, radical. I could cite more examples, but youre a smart guy....take a peek from another perspective if you are able.

originally posted by: tribal
By the way, your argument goes both directions.

No, it doesn't. You made an incorrect, broad statement against 'most doctors', describing their practices as literally 50 years old. I'm not saying medical tech should stand still, but until *proven* techniques are approved, risk is something most people will avoid.

If i cannot comment or pass judgment on something i am not an expert in, neither are you as a non expert in that thing, able to legitimately assess the rightness of that thing, seeing as you ceded your critical thinking to the authority you are bowing down to.

I'm not bowing to anything. I'm criticising your ability to lump 'most' doctors into a single group of people who are 'a joke'.

A classic appeal to authority fallacy. And before you say it, even if i was "expertly trained" in any medical field, it still by your faulty logic, would not permit me to comment on related medical fields of which i am not an expert. See how that works?

No, you're just rambling.

You're trying to defend your anti-vaccination stance on paranoia and non-scientific blogs and journals. You have an opinion, which is wrong, and you hold on to it and defend it with any junk online blog you find, much like this quack.

Honestly, please don't ever get vaccinated. The human gene pool is much stronger without your DNA in it

Would you like fries with that?

No, I don't eat junk food. But thank you for offering.

originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: tribal
And i have to say....as an anti vaxxxer myself....im just frickin lovin this! HAHAHAHAHA

Why would you love the idea of re-introducing diseases amongst the human population in places that are already limited in education and prevention and medical treatment?

What an idiotic position to hold on a well known, documented process to help reduce and, in some cases, eliminate deadly diseases.

People like you are very strange. Glad I don't know you IRL -- I'd never want to be around you or your scabby kids

What kind of idiotic person does not want to know the truth
People like you, like to be a mushroom and dictated to, like to be controlled.

I have children, they are vaccinated, I didn't pretend there was no risk

I would prefer to hang around the unvaccinated that the sheeple

originally posted by: tribal


And heres the link from the match that lit a fire under the Establishments behind. And i have to say....as an anti vaxxxer myself....im just frickin lovin this! HAHAHAHAHA

See, YOU are the reason that a doctor can not openly talk about the side effects of vaccines without repercussions - YOU are the reason why it doctors have to be so careful what they say. The poor guy just wanted to talk science, and then YOU stepped in.

And he should have known. You cannot just talk science when YOU are out there.

You twist their words, ignore the parts you do not like and start spreading news implying that the doctor in question speaks against vaccinations, and every time you successfully convince a parent with some of your twisted 'evidence' you put a child's life in danger.

You do that, and you put doctors careers in jeopardy too - doctors who actually call for development of even safer vaccines.

Great job, fellas, great job.

Bugger it, let Darwinism take its course.

If the anti vaccers wish to go through life unvaccinated then let them. They and their families will die and this will leave the rest of use disease free.

No point in arguing. Let's live or die by our choices.

originally posted by: tribal
its perfectly reasonable in my opinion to characterize people as radical who cannot do anything other than attack this man for presenting a dissenting opinion as dangerous to society and almost the same as committing war crimes and the like.

Your original statement was that society has become radicalized, not some commenters on the internet.

Now you're moving the goalposts. You are using a lot of logical fallacies for somebody complaining about them in the OP.

originally posted by: yorkshirelad
Bugger it, let Darwinism take its course.

If the anti vaccers wish to go through life unvaccinated then let them. They and their families will die and this will leave the rest of use disease free.

No point in arguing. Let's live or die by our choices.

No you cant do that
Everybody with opposing views to the mainstream MUST BE PURGED

Heard mentality rules