The whole "Russia is your enemy" thing.

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: Velatropa24

I've read through your post a couple of times while thinking how best to respond. I think however whatever I write you will just spin round to show how Russia but much more specifically Putin has not acted as an aggressor in any way and it's all someone else's fault. That's ignorance in the extreme, but I know when it's not really worth pursuing the debate.

That is a complete cop out. You have not said anything to counter his arguments. Thst is ignorance. The world is in the state it is today becsuse of the west. You denying thst?

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: uncommitted

Now, i maybe wrong here, but did the west back an illegal forced regime change in Ukraine? So russia went in there after the collapse of Ukraines sovereignty after western backed coup?

Did Russia annex Ukraine? I'm not saying anyone is squeaky clean, but that was the point I made.

Its russia cleaning up our mess!

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: uncommitted

Now, i maybe wrong here, but did the west back an illegal forced regime change in Ukraine? So russia went in there after the collapse of Ukraines sovereignty after western backed coup?

Did Russia annex Ukraine? I'm not saying anyone is squeaky clean, but that was the point I made.

Its russia cleaning up our mess!

That's fine, all is good. Russia/Putin helped Trump into the White House and now he's everyone's best mate. You won't hear another word from me on the subject comrade.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: uncommitted

Now, i maybe wrong here, but did the west back an illegal forced regime change in Ukraine? So russia went in there after the collapse of Ukraines sovereignty after western backed coup?

Did Russia annex Ukraine? I'm not saying anyone is squeaky clean, but that was the point I made.

Its russia cleaning up our mess!

That's fine, all is good. Russia/Putin helped Trump into the White House and now he's everyone's best mate. You won't hear another word from me on the subject comrade.

That is questionable to say the least. Yet another opinion based on someone else's thinking.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: uncommitted

Now, i maybe wrong here, but did the west back an illegal forced regime change in Ukraine? So russia went in there after the collapse of Ukraines sovereignty after western backed coup?

Did Russia annex Ukraine? I'm not saying anyone is squeaky clean, but that was the point I made.

Its russia cleaning up our mess!

That's fine, all is good. Russia/Putin helped Trump into the White House and now he's everyone's best mate. You won't hear another word from me on the subject comrade.

And you have proof thst russia did this? Or are you just believing what you are being told?

And lets say russia did this, do you know how many countries america has influenced redarding change of leardership?

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: uncommitted

Now, i maybe wrong here, but did the west back an illegal forced regime change in Ukraine? So russia went in there after the collapse of Ukraines sovereignty after western backed coup?

Did Russia annex Ukraine? I'm not saying anyone is squeaky clean, but that was the point I made.

Its russia cleaning up our mess!

That's fine, all is good. Russia/Putin helped Trump into the White House and now he's everyone's best mate. You won't hear another word from me on the subject comrade.

And you have proof thst russia did this? Or are you just believing what you are being told?

And lets say russia did this, do you know how many countries america has influenced redarding change of leardership?

Let's say Russia did have a hand in it. I believe America has done it with plenty of countries - I think that is fairly obvious. The question you have to ask yourself is why did America do it, and then why did Russia do it? Actually I personally hope it's a good thing - I do honestly mean that. I'm just surprised that so many on ATS who choked on the word socialism seem to think it's kind of not worth making a big deal over.

originally posted by: Velatropa24

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: uncommitted

Now, i maybe wrong here, but did the west back an illegal forced regime change in Ukraine? So russia went in there after the collapse of Ukraines sovereignty after western backed coup?

Did Russia annex Ukraine? I'm not saying anyone is squeaky clean, but that was the point I made.

Its russia cleaning up our mess!

That's fine, all is good. Russia/Putin helped Trump into the White House and now he's everyone's best mate. You won't hear another word from me on the subject comrade.

That is questionable to say the least. Yet another opinion based on someone else's thinking.

Like all of yours expressed on this thread so far are, so I wouldn't congratulate yourself.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Velatropa24

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: uncommitted

Now, i maybe wrong here, but did the west back an illegal forced regime change in Ukraine? So russia went in there after the collapse of Ukraines sovereignty after western backed coup?

Did Russia annex Ukraine? I'm not saying anyone is squeaky clean, but that was the point I made.

Its russia cleaning up our mess!

That's fine, all is good. Russia/Putin helped Trump into the White House and now he's everyone's best mate. You won't hear another word from me on the subject comrade.

That is questionable to say the least. Yet another opinion based on someone else's thinking.

Like all of yours expressed on this thread so far are, so I wouldn't congratulate yourself.

Before writing such nonsence, answer the points I made in my first reply to you. Otherwise, go de-rail some other thread troll boy.

originally posted by: Velatropa24

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Velatropa24
I see many of you wondering and asking questions why your government is lying to you and so on.

I have a theory to offer to you - long story short, the people of US are more divided then ever before ever since these last elections. So much so that it is reaching a dangerous level (Ukraine is an example of a divided country).

What your powers that be are unsuccessfully trying to do is find a common enemy to unify the nation, and Russia in their view fits the bill perfectly. Truth has nothing to do with this, everything reguarding Russia has been lies driven by desperation. Desperation which is obviously not working and leading to one stupid move after another.

Don't buy that crap.

Find a different way to unify. For example unity in the name of a just, peaceful and prosperous world. Not more hate and war which you are being force fed.

Parts of Ukraine are occupied, annexed by Russia. Is that a lie? What about Russian occupation (or attempted) of Chechnya or Georgia to name but two? Is that a lie? No bs, none of your opinionated view, facts only please if you want to respond.

Look mate, ignorance is not bliss in this case, you just made yourself out to look extremely brainwashed for lack of a better word and lacking any knowledge on the issue, yet having an oppinion (the definition of ignorance).

First of all, reguarding Chechnya - please enlighten us how it is possible to "try to occupy" a part of your own country? Please go ahead, I am waiting for it.

Second of all, Georgia - please remind what part of Georgia is occupied by Russia? As far as I know, Russia has accepted the independence of 2 former Georgian areas, but has not "occupied" any part of it. Why they did it - for the same reason Kosovo was accepted by US - to prevent ongoing slaughter. And please tell me they weren't right in doing so after Russian peacekeepers and civillians got slaughtere by US-trained Georgians with US-supplied weapons and a pat on the back from the US president to Saakashvilly the drugged up psychopath.

Third of all, the actions taken in Ukraine and Georgia have been nothing but REACTIONS TO IRRISPONSIBLE STEPS TAKEN BY US AND THEIR PUPPET STATES on an international stage. That's right - REACTIONS. Cause and effect.

And fourth and final - we must move on, otherwise the carousel of death, missery and hatred will just keep turning in circles. Choose peace, not conflict.

Back on topic.

originally posted by: Velatropa24
I see many of you wondering and asking questions why your government is lying to you and so on.

I have a theory to offer to you - long story short, the people of US are more divided then ever before ever since these last elections. So much so that it is reaching a dangerous level (Ukraine is an example of a divided country).

What your powers that be are unsuccessfully trying to do is find a common enemy to unify the nation, and Russia in their view fits the bill perfectly. Truth has nothing to do with this, everything reguarding Russia has been lies driven by desperation. Desperation which is obviously not working and leading to one stupid move after another.

Don't buy that crap.

Find a different way to unify. For example unity in the name of a just, peaceful and prosperous world. Not more hate and war which you are being force fed.

As a Canadian I have no idea if i am supposed to hate Russia. Kinds sucks not knowing. When i was in the military they teach you all about "enemy " weapons and there mostly Russian. I have never seen them attack us, target us.. mess with us. I personally would love to visit Russia, just to take in the sites, but god knows I'll end up on a watch list after.

Sucks.

a reply to: Velatropa24

originally posted by: Dizak
As a Canadian I have no idea if i am supposed to hate Russia. Kinds sucks not knowing. When i was in the military they teach you all about "enemy " weapons and there mostly Russian. I have never seen them attack us, target us.. mess with us. I personally would love to visit Russia, just to take in the sites, but god knows I'll end up on a watch list after.

Sucks.

a reply to: Velatropa24

I can answer this for you. From what you write, I gather "I don't know the line of behavior that is expected from me". All I can say is - never care about it. Do what YOU think is right with pride and integrity, stick to OWN thoughts and opinions based on personal experience and knowledge. If you have no personal experience and knowledge on the matter, simply say "I don't know and have no opinion".

As far as visiting Russia, totally do it without any fear. Canada is a free democratic country, last I checked. You have nothing to fear. I guarantee you will have an awesome, eye-opening time.

a reply to: Dizak

We used to like Russia, for a while. We've traded back and forth our sports trainers and such, we used to have some oil based businesses there too.
After the overthrow of Ukraine (the west is Not blameless here), Harper decided they were enemies again 🙄

Every Russian person that I've met (not lots but a few) was very friendly. Very nice.
And I love their accent.
And a few years ago, they let This Hour Has 22 Minutes plant a Cdn flag in their red square.
They do have a sense of humour.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Velatropa24
.

Parts of Ukraine are occupied, annexed by Russia. Is that a lie? What about Russian occupation (or attempted) of Chechnya or Georgia to name but two? Is that a lie? No bs, none of your opinionated view, facts only please if you want to respond.

The people of Crimea held a vote. They voted..... Can you not side with people? Doesn't what the people want mean more to you than what men is suits want?

Russia is not the boogieman...... America is.... and it breaks my heart to say that

“If we get to a point where people in this country feel more affinity with a leader who is an adversary and view the United States and our way of life as a threat to him, then we’re gonna have bigger problems than just cyber hacking.”

we have already gotten to that point and it has nothing to do with the Russians. when you get caught in as many lies, schemes and scams as the U.S. government has been people tend not to trust or respect you anymore. how can you govern people when those people don`t respect you and don`t trust you?

FBI anon told us. These damn people want war with russia for a variety of reasons.

originally posted by: Zimnydran

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Velatropa24
.

Parts of Ukraine are occupied, annexed by Russia. Is that a lie? What about Russian occupation (or attempted) of Chechnya or Georgia to name but two? Is that a lie? No bs, none of your opinionated view, facts only please if you want to respond.

The people of Crimea held a vote. They voted..... Can you not side with people? Doesn't what the people want mean more to you than what men is suits want?

Russia is not the boogieman...... America is.... and it breaks my heart to say that

It fascinates me that you think Russia is the hero, what you think of America is up to you, but it's very interesting how a few complimentary words from the overrated president elect and your BFF with Putin. Very interesting.

ETA: when you say Crimea voted, you are referring to the referendum that has not been recognised by fairly much anyone apart from Russia, one reason being that the annexation had already taken place. Don't mind me though, RT will tell you what they want you to think.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Zimnydran

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Velatropa24
.

Parts of Ukraine are occupied, annexed by Russia. Is that a lie? What about Russian occupation (or attempted) of Chechnya or Georgia to name but two? Is that a lie? No bs, none of your opinionated view, facts only please if you want to respond.

The people of Crimea held a vote. They voted..... Can you not side with people? Doesn't what the people want mean more to you than what men is suits want?

Russia is not the boogieman...... America is.... and it breaks my heart to say that

It fascinates me that you think Russia is the hero, what you think of America is up to you, but it's very interesting how a few complimentary words from the overrated president elect and your BFF with Putin. Very interesting.

ETA: when you say Crimea voted, you are referring to the referendum that has not been recognised by fairly much anyone apart from Russia, one reason being that the annexation had already taken place. Don't mind me though, RT will tell you what they want you to think.

Looks like CNN has already beat them to it for you

Are you going to deny that the people of Crimea identify themselves as Russians and are very happy to be a part of Russia? You are going to tell us that they are outraged, repressed, too scared to do anything about it and countless public opinion surveys carried out by the west in Crimea yeilded unwanted results because if the people say what they really think, they will be shot afterwards?

The people have spoken. End of story. No matter how butthurt anyone is that they didn't get their way, history has been made and it will never change. Time to let go and move on.

I would also like to remind you sonce you keep ignoring my points that:

originally posted by: Velatropa24

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Velatropa24
I see many of you wondering and asking questions why your government is lying to you and so on.

I have a theory to offer to you - long story short, the people of US are more divided then ever before ever since these last elections. So much so that it is reaching a dangerous level (Ukraine is an example of a divided country).

What your powers that be are unsuccessfully trying to do is find a common enemy to unify the nation, and Russia in their view fits the bill perfectly. Truth has nothing to do with this, everything reguarding Russia has been lies driven by desperation. Desperation which is obviously not working and leading to one stupid move after another.

Don't buy that crap.

Find a different way to unify. For example unity in the name of a just, peaceful and prosperous world. Not more hate and war which you are being force fed.

Parts of Ukraine are occupied, annexed by Russia. Is that a lie? What about Russian occupation (or attempted) of Chechnya or Georgia to name but two? Is that a lie? No bs, none of your opinionated view, facts only please if you want to respond.

Third of all, the actions taken in Ukraine and Georgia have been nothing but REACTIONS TO IRRISPONSIBLE STEPS TAKEN BY US AND THEIR PUPPET STATES on an international stage. That's right - REACTIONS. Cause and effect.

And fourth and final - we must move on, otherwise the carousel of death, missery and hatred will just keep turning in circles. Choose peace, not conflict.

Hence, this whole thing would not have happened if US and Souros didn't orchestrate the Ukrainean overthrow in the first place. Cause and effect.

On the side note, if you would like to discuss Crimea, there are countless different threads doing just that. This thread is of a different nature. Please stay on topic.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: uncommitted

Now, i maybe wrong here, but did the west back an illegal forced regime change in Ukraine? So russia went in there after the collapse of Ukraines sovereignty after western backed coup?

Did Russia annex Ukraine? I'm not saying anyone is squeaky clean, but that was the point I made.

Its russia cleaning up our mess!

That's fine, all is good. Russia/Putin helped Trump into the White House and now he's everyone's best mate. You won't hear another word from me on the subject comrade.

And you have proof thst russia did this? Or are you just believing what you are being told?

And lets say russia did this, do you know how many countries america has influenced redarding change of leardership?

Let's say Russia did have a hand in it. I believe America has done it with plenty of countries - I think that is fairly obvious. The question you have to ask yourself is why did America do it, and then why did Russia do it? Actually I personally hope it's a good thing - I do honestly mean that. I'm just surprised that so many on ATS who choked on the word socialism seem to think it's kind of not worth making a big deal over.

...because life goes forward, not backwards.

...and just curious, other then history, what has socialism got to do with modern Russia?

a reply to: Velatropa24

Oh, I know many in the Crimea are still attached to Russia - why would they not when in their lifetimes they were part of the Soviet Union? Many also think back to the days of Stalin with affection too.

For your last point, you appear to be suggesting Russia is currently a benign country. I was giving examples of where that has not always been the case. It's not for me to say one country is more or less likely to be aggressive, but to try and gloss over facts is plainly blind.

For the response you gave directly after the one I'm currently replying to, exactly when would you say socialism became history in Russia? I'm talking about for the normal people, not the oligarchs and gangsters of course.

I do like how like Trump though, you tacitly agree that Russia had a hand in ensuring their favoured candidate took the presidency - it really wasn't that hard was it?

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: Velatropa24

Oh, I know many in the Crimea are still attached to Russia - why would they not when in their lifetimes they were part of the Soviet Union? Many also think back to the days of Stalin with affection too.

For your last point, you appear to be suggesting Russia is currently a benign country. I was giving examples of where that has not always been the case. It's not for me to say one country is more or less likely to be aggressive, but to try and gloss over facts is plainly blind.

For the response you gave directly after the one I'm currently replying to, exactly when would you say socialism became history in Russia? I'm talking about for the normal people, not the oligarchs and gangsters of course.

I do like how like Trump though, you tacitly agree that Russia had a hand in ensuring their favoured candidate took the presidency - it really wasn't that hard was it?

To answer your question, socialism ended in Russia in 1991 with the breakup of Soviet Union. Do you even know what socialism is? The reason I ask is your quote - "I'm talking about for the normal people, not the oligarchs and gangsters". You really have no idea do you? You have no idea that Chechnya is not a country, no idea what socialism is, and I would be very surprised if you even knew where Crimea is, yet it doesnt stop you from throwing your ill-informed opinions around. I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.

...and just for the record, I didn't agree to anything.

Now - before accusing Russia of aggression, please consider the countless countries US has destroyed lately. I could provide you statistics, data and chew it over for you, however I will not for the following reason - this thread serves a different purpose. I will not let you turn this thread into another US vs Russia hate thread. This is a message of peace not war. You seem to have trouble comprehending, so I will ask you for the 4th time - PLEASE STICK TO THE TOPIC.