Why the left fails

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

There sure are a lot of people who would sure like all these jobs that are supposedly being offered by all these conservatives.

I spent a full year on here doing everything short of begging people to move here where we were starting people at $20/hour. I hear a lot of reasons why people didn't want them....and not a single person who said, "Hey, im on my way...what info do you have?"

All those people have to do is move to where there is work. I mean, we are going to seal up the border tight so we can protect our jobs. Ill bet that the people who want jobs today won't help keep the beets from rotting in the field next harvest season.

You know better kayla...its all lip service.

a reply to: everyone

Politicians maybe but not your average person. They'd rather people work like everyone else has to.

a reply to: neo96

How many unproven claims have the Right been investigating over and over only to find nothing and still taking action as if their target is guilty???

Planned ParentHood
Obama is a Muslim founder of ISIS
Martial Law will be Started to take away guns
Bengahzi
Clinton Murdering 30+ people close to her

Multiple investigations into these and others coming back without any solid proof to even start a trial let alone convict anyone yet the Right still holds those involved as guilty. Innocent until proven guilty has to work both ways, not just for one side.

a reply to: mOjOm

How many unproven claims have the Right been investigating over and over only to find nothing and still taking action as if their target is guilty???

That's because in their "gut" they are right and if they wait long enough eventually the evidence with appear and all that time will not have been wasted.

Even if it takes forever.

a reply to: gpols

How is it time not wasted to rail on about the Clinton Bodycount? So lets say that Hillary goes to prison for Seth Rich's murder in some far fetched possibility. Maybe after this happens she gets a string of murders tied to her.

How was someones time not wasted by thinking she was a murderer all along?

I know the answer, but my point here is that you, me, and all the other users here do nothing politically. We have opinions, and we voice them (bully for us). But there is zero accomplished outside of talking about issues. And some issues you can actually be enlightened on. Unsubstantiated claims, however....are the epitome of "time wasted".

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You got 7 million job openings?

The people working at McDonalds are not able to make ends meet as it is. You think they are going to be able to on $3.50/hour picking beets?

originally posted by: jamespond

originally posted by: brutus61

originally posted by: ManFromEurope

What about a single mother having a job, making not enough money - why not give her food stamps, too.

Therein lies the problem. With so many collecting government money as a way of life the people who truly need it have a difficult time getting it.

Why is a working single mother who isn't earning enough money to live on not truly needing government help?

That statement was saying that they should get it read it again.


The real problems lie with low wages, mainly due to so much power being taken away from unions. That coupled with the increased cost of living.

It's stupid imo to expect any person who lives alone to be able to afford to live on minimum wage without some sort of help. And since it's not their own fault that capitalism doesn't work, these people deserve all the help they get.

I doubt you've ever been in a situation where you work full time and still can't afford to pay the bills so It's best not to criticise things that you've never experienced.

I was unemployed for the last 7 years. working odd jobs doing ANYTHING that paid something. Last summer i took out a very small loan and started a small cell phone store. I still do odd jobs in the evenings and on weekends so please don't tell me I don't know what it is like!!

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You got 7 million job openings?

The people working at McDonalds are not able to make ends meet as it is. You think they are going to be able to on $3.50/hour picking beets?

No. I don't. Its all pretty ridiculous, isn't it?

The problem isn't the hourly rate. The problem is the value of the dollar. And that is 100% the fault of our government.

On another note, to solve a problem it must first be acknowledged. And according to headlines and partisan spin, we don't have a jobs problem. Unemployments at an all time low.

Its why I keep saying: liberalism is the wrong direction for the DNC. They need to re-establish themselves as the voice of labor. The force fighting for the little man. As a liberal party, they are a force fighting for the forgotten man. Key differences in approach. But without labor paying taxes, not only is there no cash left to care for the forgotten, the little man gets screwed as well.

Each party is poised to establish a labor platform. The left has the history, the right has the attention of the audience. But either one could control DC if they'd focus on labor instead of making more foreign wars.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I agree with what you are saying here. As in logic indicates that a certain person is responsible for a crime, there just isn't enough evidence to bring that person to trial because they were really careful covering up after themselves. Railing on about it may actually bring results by giving someone enough courage to come forward or find someone who knows something.

That isn't time wasted at all.

I think our opinions matter a lot actually and can help bring about the changes we want to see. Of course organizing something that can really make an impact is outside the scope of ATS, but it could be done.

Unsubstantiated claims, however....are the epitome of "time wasted".

That's what I was getting at.

a reply to: gpols

For me, its all personal journey. I interact here for me, not anyone else. It enriches me, as i live in a backwater small town (which i love...if i could just get some more thinkers around that i could tolerate being around).

I come here to figure out what i think.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
If the right hadn't caused one of the biggest recessions ever in 2008, maybe there would have been more jobs.

Except the 'right' didn't cause the recession. But that's reality for you.

See, there is more than one way of looking at things.

Yes there is. There is reality way, and there is the liberal/progressive/socialist/leftists/statist/scapegoating way.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: mOjOm

Is he suggesting that the left goes by the "guilty until proven innocent

That's a FACT.

Just ask Russia.

Just ask Bankers.

Just ask CEOS.

Just ask corporations.

Just ask GUN OWNERS

Over 100 years of REGULATION to keep them people in their place.

Stop presenting actuality's, don't you see how bigoted and racist that is!?

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

Except the 'right' didn't cause the recession. But that's reality for you.

Bush was in office when the situation leading up to the recession happened. He owns it. Reality.

Yes there is. There is reality way, and there is the liberal/progressive/socialist/leftists/statist/scapegoating way.

Yeah, well that's just like, your opinion, man.

Anthony Bourdain, a self avowed "liberal", has a view I agree with. I didn't vote for Trump...but this is what puts me off "liberalism" so much. Because of how they think of me without even knowing me (based on my personal experience, not on other peoples anecdotes):

Bourdain Interview

The utter contempt with which privileged Eastern liberals such as myself discuss red-state, gun-country, working-class America as ridiculous and morons and rubes is largely responsible for the upswell of rage and contempt and desire to pull down the temple that we're seeing now.

I've spent a lot of time in gun-country, God-fearing America. There are a hell of a lot of nice people out there, who are doing what everyone else in this world is trying to do: the best they can to get by, and take care of themselves and the people they love. When we deny them their basic humanity and legitimacy of their views, however different they may be than ours, when we mock them at every turn, and treat them with contempt, we do no one any good.

Is he just a chef? Yes. He's also intelligent, well spoken, and well traveled. He sits and drinks and talks with everyone, and has played with and debated a wide range of viewpoints in the classical old theater of the philosophical: over a glass of wine

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I would agree with him to some extent, but it definitely goes both ways. I've been called a "libtard" more times then I can count over the years. I've also been called a nut, an idiot, crazy, stupid and putrid- all because of my liberal views. I've been accused of having a "liberal diseased mind" and of trying to steal everyone's guns away (no such thing). I've been called a "baby murderer", even though I've never personally had an abortion, but am pro-choice. I've been called lazy and accused of wanting a bunch of free stuff from the government, just because I am a liberal. We won't even go into the "snowflake" and SJW issue.

oops

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I would agree with him to some extent, but it definitely goes both ways. I've been called a "libtard" more times then I can count over the years. I've also been called a nut, an idiot, crazy, stupid and putrid- all because of my liberal views. I've been accused of having a "liberal diseased mind" and of trying to steal everyone's guns away (no such thing). I've been called a "baby murderer", even though I've never personally had a abortion, but am pro-choice. I've been called lazy and accused of wanting a bunch of free stuff from the government, just because I am a liberal. We won't even go into the "snowflake" and SJW issue.

Being looked down on or called names during online arguments is one thing. In that arena, you agree to be a soldier by participating in that discussion to begin with. Clicking off a webpage is easy as far as solutions go.

But when it hits, and impacts, everyday life its something different entirely. My view is shaped by my experience as an operations manager in a call center that did support for Time Warner Cable of NYC. The way my employees were talked to and treated for having an accent was nothing short of disgusting. The gist was, "You sound like a hick. I hate when my call ends up with you morons out in the country, you sound like toothless bubbas". Often using terms just like this to talk to our employees, who said nothing more than their opening greeting.

That is how the people of Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, Mount Vernon, and Staten Island thought about the people here in West Texas. Based on nothing more than the accent of the voice who gave the "Thank you for calling Time Warner Cable, how may I help you?".

It was almost impossible to staff because people didn't like the abuse.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Call center employees get all kinds of abuse. I managed a small call center in Austin for 6 years, and we got some real meanies calling in - some of them were even Southern conservatives! And yes, impossible to keep staffed.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Call center employees get all kinds of abuse. I managed a small call center in Austin for 6 years, and we got some real meanies calling in - some of them were even Southern conservatives! And yes, impossible to keep staffed.

I ran an AOL call center in its peak/heyday (versions 4 through 7). People would call in livid about their internet not working. The abuse from the NYer's was so far beyond this. Especially Manhattan.

It wasn't uncommon to have an agent give a greeting, only to be screamed obscenities at for being a hillbilly, then be hung up on. I guess they'd just call back in till they got one of the folks in NYC. But they obviously didn't want to talk to any hillbillys.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

He's right. One of the bigger failures of the modern left is in its inability to fundamentally understand the values of or relate to that 'red state, gun country, working class America' that he speaks of. Because of this, even when they drop the insults, their genuine attempts at outreach are often received as preachy, condescending and arrogant, which just leads red state America to resent them even more. Worse still, the Dems have overwhelmingly prioritized social issues in recent years, and with poor understanding and often outright dismissal of genuine red-state concerns, it has led to a perception that the left is waging a culture war against them.