This group loses big under the GOP Social Security plan

originally posted by: MOMof3
We boomers have private and soc sec, as planned by the gen before us. Long term jobs were plentiful that offered retirement plans. That is gone, now Republicans want to gamble away more.

The day of reckoning will come soon enough and the full impact of Trumpovian "trickle down" economics will destroy them as well. Anyone that thinks the GOP is for the American working man is a fool.

Imo, we should trash obamacare but keep SS and medicare. I dont mind pragmatic modifications to SS, as long as it isnt scrapped. Obamacare is the definition of a fascist program. It was a gift to the insurance companies and big pharma.

originally posted by: pirhanna
Obamacare is the definition of a fascist program. It was a gift to the insurance companies and big pharma.

And that is precisely why Trump backed away from trashing the ACA, even though he campaigned on that. Nothing of real importance will change that program but the current administration will "hoorah" their ineffectual BS.

a reply to: F4guy
Where did you think that Bill Clinton's budget surplus came from?

originally posted by: JIMC5499
a reply to: F4guy
Where did you think that Bill Clinton's budget surplus came from?

Exactly.

When it is claimed that Clinton paid down the national debt, that is patently false-- the national debt went up every single year. What Clinton did do was pay down the public debt-- but he paid down the public debt by borrowing far more money in the form of intragovernmental holdings (mostly Social Security).

So while the public debt went down, the intragovernmental holdings went up each year by a far greater amount--and, in turn, the total national debt (which is public debt + intragovernmental holdings) went up.

Smoke and mirrors. But my uncle will fight about it all day long saying that it just isn't true, even when I direct him to the Treasury numbers.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: MOMof3

Oh, they could.

See: Obamacare is failing and a failed law because the Republicans wouldn't let the Democrats pass what they really wanted ...

Remember how the Democrats had a full Supermajority when they jammed the sucker through?

So, yeah, it's entirely possible to pass a law with a full majority in both houses and the presidency, make a hash of it, and then blame the other guys. Democrats wrote the book on it this past eight years.

"If you want to know what's in the document, you'll have to vote it through".

originally posted by: F4guy
It's only in that shape because Congress raided the SS Trust Fund of trillions to give tax breaks to their buddies.

Who did what to bring things to the current state is pretty irrelevant. What matters is the state it's currently in and how we go forward.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Exactly.

You're my husband's age and I'm a few years younger.

We haven't counted on SS for a long time now. It's stupid. It won't be there because those above us in age will exhaust it there aren't enough kids young enough to keep the fund going for us when we will be of an age to need it for those reasons you cite. If you aren't making your own plans, then you're likely going to be screwed.

The basic math and time frame alone tells you why social security is in trouble

1. Social security is created during the depression, when the population of old versus young was low enough that the model worked. When the WW2 generation kicked off the baby boom, they were set, because they had even more younger workers to pay into the system. Then the baby boomers in their numbers ended up having families 1/3 the size of the ones they came from, meaning 2/3 less workers paying into the system.

2. Fast forward to the time now when the Baby Boom tip of the retirement iceberg. The first of the baby boomers are already starting to retire, and the biggest wave is about a couple years away. The number of younger workers paying into this system being drastically reduced, on top of many younger workers having lower wage jobs compared to their parents after adjustments, so less money is going into this system.

3. Since about the 70's, maybe even 80's, several members of congress have continued to dip into the the SS fund to cover budget shortfalls, errors, and other problems from unrelated programs and departments, so what would have been a surplus got destroyed by the end of the 80's. At that time, they said SS would stay solvent for another decade or two, but after that would start getting rockier and less certain, less sustainable. And here we are.


When I look at my pay check, my federal income tax deductions are much less than my SS and Medicare contributions. At the end of the year, because I make crap wages, I get a good chunk of it back on my tax returns. But SS and Medicare? Nope, thats what is currently paying for all the old people now retired. And I'm pretty sure I won't get a return on that at my age.

With all that said, even if you were to take nothing from my paycheck, they money I kept would still not be enough for me to pay for my own medical care and save self sustainable for retirement. The costs and requirements of living today have pretty much made the old models of financial independence that our grandparents went by obsolete.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Social Security? Oh, yeah, that program I get taxed for and will never, ever see myself.

Why should I care what they do with it?

Seriously, you don't have a problem with the lack of integrity the gov. exhibits? First it's a racket; to steal money from you and me and us consenting types. Secondly; since the money ain't being returned to us like it's supposed to be, it then gets laundered and used for who knows what.
I suspect you work hard for that money and expect the taxes you pay into it will go towards your expenses you accumulate after you're no longer a valid worker?

The only thing that validates you and me and us is our ability to grow money out of our asses...
and for what- for who- and for why?

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: CB328


IMO, better private accounts rather than having the monies spent on everything else other than S.S.....or saved for later use.

But no, people aren't smart enough to choose for themselves whether they want private accounts or not.

Yes...cuz it's not like wall street has ever recklessly gambled with the life savings of Americans and lost before...but it's OK the Gov can just bail them out again...by them I mean the banks...not the people who lost their life savings...eff them..
FOr effs sake..I know Americans have short memories, but we are literally just emerging from the last economic crisis where wall street screwed everyone over.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Social Security? Oh, yeah, that program I get taxed for and will never, ever see myself.

Why should I care what they do with it?

Exactly what I thought. Everyone under 35 is paying for a system they will never get to use. The faster they destroy it, the more money I can either pay down on a house or put into my roth IRA.
This is a wealth transfer, as one party never gets repaid.

Please stop with the nonsense that younger workers will not have SS!! That is false!! It has been spread for years by people and groups that don't like SS, have never liked SS, seeing it as Socialism/Communism or as an impediment to Koch Bros libertarian ideology that calls for elimination of most of the Federal govt ("drowning it in a bathtub", as Grover Norquist put it).

Social Security will be around for today's young adults.

True. Despite skepticism felt by many young adults that they'll ever see any money from Social Security, and despite the well-known funding problems that could result in benefit cuts, the program will keep going unless Congress dismantles it, which isn't likely. "Saying Social Security won't exist isn't true and won't help the debate," said Goldwein.

Social Security isn't broke: Sorting myths from truths

Other myths in the article include:
Social Security is heading toward bankruptcy.
Social Security would have remained solvent if Congress hadn't raided the trust fund.

OTOH this article was written before the election. Those put into power now in all three branches (Trump is now on board with the Koch libertarian ideology) intend to dismantle the Federal govt, finally having the chance since 1980 to "make govt small enough to drown it in a bathtub".

SS was meant to keep the elderly out of abject poverty. The only thing keeping one relative out of abject poverty now IS SS!! He lost every penny of his "savings" over the years to foolish investments.... and for years he complained "if only the govt gave me my SS money to invest!", he hated the IDEA of SS.

a reply to: desert

The Social Security is dying myth is sold by Wall Street who is hoping to get their hands on it via privatization...

Privatization would be the largest EFF over of the average American in history..

Hell..right now you need a PhD in Finance to calculate the gazillion ways that Wall Street bleeds the average 401k through fees over years. Why not completely deregulate them and then give them Trillions in Americans life savings...what could go wrong?

Bernie Madoff just got caught...but he was FAR from being the only one....Those slugs only see a little sunlight when economies nearly collapse and everyone looks to withdrawal their money.

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: desert

The Social Security is dying myth is sold by Wall Street who is hoping to get their hands on it via privatization...

Privatization would be the largest EFF over of the average American in history..

Hell..right now you need a PhD in Finance to calculate the gazillion ways that Wall Street bleeds the average 401k through fees over years. Why not completely deregulate them and then give them Trillions in Americans life savings...what could go wrong?

Bernie Madoff just got caught...but he was FAR from being the only one....Those slugs only see a little sunlight when economies nearly collapse and everyone looks to withdrawal their money.

Thank you. I have been telling people I heard that in 1969. I had no problem getting my social security checks and grateful no one else could get it.

originally posted by: annoyedpharmacist

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: CB328

The article even says the plan will likely be altered and would only cause this if other measures are not taken to fund the revenue gap.

The system will be out of money by 2034.
We need to do something before it's to late.

Yep. I have been preparing for SS not being there, as should everyone else. We should have seen in coming the moment they started talking about a "lock box" for SS years ago. I knew then, that they have been, and will continue to raid those funds for ridiculous waste and fraud that is rampant in the federal government these days.

Save as much money as you can, do not count on SS being there when you retire. It wont.

Yes and this sort of thing out in the dam real world is called fraud and comes with a prison sentence if convicted.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: annoyedpharmacist

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: CB328

The article even says the plan will likely be altered and would only cause this if other measures are not taken to fund the revenue gap.

The system will be out of money by 2034.
We need to do something before it's to late.

Yep. I have been preparing for SS not being there, as should everyone else. We should have seen in coming the moment they started talking about a "lock box" for SS years ago. I knew then, that they have been, and will continue to raid those funds for ridiculous waste and fraud that is rampant in the federal government these days.

Save as much money as you can, do not count on SS being there when you retire. It wont.

Yes and this sort of thing out in the dam real world is called fraud and comes with a prison sentence if convicted.

I agree there 110%. Everytime congress raids the Social Security savings fund of Americans to "borrow" money for pet projects and pork on bills...legislators should be convicted and jailed.

Social Security only appears as a "liability" when you treat all the times congress put their hand in the cookie jar as legit..otherwise it is surplus...unfortunately the word "surplus" erotically excites spenders in congress on both sides of the aisle....It would seem straight forward...funds given/demanded/taxed via Americans into SS can only ever be spent on SS...how the eff do we get that bill passed?

a reply to: MOMof3

This is what privatization is NOW...not accounting for the massive deregulation the GOP will pass in the next 4 years..

average 401K

These administrative costs, combined with investment expenses, can total 1 percent or more and add up to nearly $140,000 over the lifetime of a worker whose salary starts around $30,000 at age 25, according to analysis by the Center for American Progress, a public policy research organization.

On $100,000 invested over 35 years at a 7 percent return, the difference between a 0.79 percent fee and a 0.20 percent fee could add up to more than $175,000.

money.usnews.com...

Give Wall-Street the Trillions sitting in SS and deregulate them?...

It will be a bloodbath for generations...With a unprecedented transfer of wealth to wall-street from the savings of 99% of the hard working Americans.

I think it should be privatized.......there are some counties in Texas that off another option

But three neighboring Texas counties, which opted out of Social Security 30 years ago by creating personal retirement accounts, have avoided a fiscal train wreck while providing retirees with even more retirement income.

Like Social Security, employees contribute 6.2 percent of their income, with the county matching the contribution (Galveston has chosen to provide a slightly larger share). Once the county makes its contribution, its financial obligation is done. So there are no long-term unfunded liabilities.

But not all of that money goes into an employee’s retirement account. When financial planner Rick Gornto devised the Alternate Plan in 1981, he wanted it to be a complete substitute for Social Security. And Social Security isn’t just a retirement fund; it’s social insurance that provides a death benefit—a whopping $255—survivors’ insurance, and a disability benefit.

Part of the employer contribution in the Alternate Plan goes toward a term life insurance policy, which pays four times the employee’s salary tax free, up to a maximum of $215,000. That’s nearly 850 times Social Security’s death benefit.

We should have options like this all over the country, so we can take the money out of the spending hands of the government....

Source

originally posted by: desert
Please stop with the nonsense that younger workers will not have SS!! That is false!! It has been spread for years by people and groups that don't like SS, have never liked SS, seeing it as Socialism/Communism or as an impediment to Koch Bros libertarian ideology that calls for elimination of most of the Federal govt ("drowning it in a bathtub", as Grover Norquist put it).

Social Security will be around for today's young adults.

True. Despite skepticism felt by many young adults that they'll ever see any money from Social Security, and despite the well-known funding problems that could result in benefit cuts, the program will keep going unless Congress dismantles it, which isn't likely. "Saying Social Security won't exist isn't true and won't help the debate," said Goldwein.

Social Security isn't broke: Sorting myths from truths

Other myths in the article include:
Social Security is heading toward bankruptcy.
Social Security would have remained solvent if Congress hadn't raided the trust fund.

OTOH this article was written before the election. Those put into power now in all three branches (Trump is now on board with the Koch libertarian ideology) intend to dismantle the Federal govt, finally having the chance since 1980 to "make govt small enough to drown it in a bathtub".

SS was meant to keep the elderly out of abject poverty. The only thing keeping one relative out of abject poverty now IS SS!! He lost every penny of his "savings" over the years to foolish investments.... and for years he complained "if only the govt gave me my SS money to invest!", he hated the IDEA of SS.

Yeah, we will just be taxed more and will receive less. Great system for me to look forward to!

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Life insurance is a whole different issue....Don't conflate it..

You can get the same deal shopping around without privatizing your SS.

And just a sidenote...Since they are a client of mine..FB offers a minimum 1 Million Dollar life insurance policy to EVERYONE they hire...from the receptionist on up.

Comparing Life Insurance benefits of Private Companies to SS benefits is apples and dogs IMO.