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UFOs ‘Official’ History Part 1 : Before the Saucers Came
page: 5share:
A further thought, relating to the posts above about the possibility of new Airborne Radar sets possibly causing Foo, through perhaps constructive
interference or the like....
Possibly people don't realise, but the RAF was utilising the same types of Radar, and those same Aircraft, and/or developments of (just for example, Avro Lincoln, Shackleton - from the Lancaster) Well into the 1950's/60's.
The HS2 set I believe lasted into Avro Vulcan era.
My point is that those aircraft would still at time be used in largish formations, so one would expect the phenomenon to still be noticed then, but I know of no reports after the War (the RAF still had very large fleets then, for example one year they had nearly 500 total losses, many of them fatal)
It is unlikely that anything of that nature would be secret still now, having no obvious war application - any research would've been available under the 30 year rule.
I also frequent an Aviation forum where quite a few members operated these types of equipment, and I don't ever to recall mention of it - I am loathe to ask a direct question on there though.
Possibly people don't realise, but the RAF was utilising the same types of Radar, and those same Aircraft, and/or developments of (just for example, Avro Lincoln, Shackleton - from the Lancaster) Well into the 1950's/60's.
The HS2 set I believe lasted into Avro Vulcan era.
My point is that those aircraft would still at time be used in largish formations, so one would expect the phenomenon to still be noticed then, but I know of no reports after the War (the RAF still had very large fleets then, for example one year they had nearly 500 total losses, many of them fatal)
It is unlikely that anything of that nature would be secret still now, having no obvious war application - any research would've been available under the 30 year rule.
I also frequent an Aviation forum where quite a few members operated these types of equipment, and I don't ever to recall mention of it - I am loathe to ask a direct question on there though.
Bit of an addendum really - I've just found this on ''How stuff works''
''A typical sighting of foos took place in December 1942 over France. A Royal Air Force pilot in a Hurricane interceptor saw two lights shooting from near the ground toward his 7,000-foot cruising altitude. At first he took the lights to be tracer fire. But when they ceased ascending and followed him, mimicking every evasive maneuver he made, the pilot realized they were under someone's intelligent control. The lights, which kept an even distance from each other all the while, pursued him for some miles''
The point i am making is that the Hawker Hurricane was a single seat Fighter aircraft, contemporary with the Spitfire, ME109 etc, that Never carried radar of any description
science.howstuffworks.com...
Found fuller account of above
B.C. Lumsden who observed two classic foo-fighters while flying a Hurricane fighter over France in December 1942.
Lumsden had left England at seven p.m., for a mission over the French coast. An hour later, while cruising at 7,000 feet over the mouth of the River Somme, he discovered that he had company. Two steadily climbing orange-coloured lights, with one slightly above the other. Lumsden at first thought the lights may be tracer flak, but discarded the idea when he saw how slowly the objects were moving. He did a full turn and saw the lights astern and to port but now they were larger and brighter. At 7,000 feet they stopped climbing and stayed level with his Hurricane. The frightened pilot executed another full turn, only to discover that the objects had stayed with him. Lumsden nose-dived to 4,000 feet with the lights following his every manoeuvre. Finally they descended to about 1,000 feet below him until he leveled out, at which point they climbed again and resumed pursuit. The two lights seemed to maintain an even distance from each other and varied only slightly in relative height from time to time. One always remained a little lower than the other. At last, as Lumsden's speed reached 260 miles per hour, he was gradually able to outdistance the UFOs. ‘I found it hard to make other members of the squadron believe me when I told my story,’ Lumsden said, ‘but the following night one of the squadron flight commanders in the same area had a similar experience with a green light.’
www.uk-ufo.org...
''A typical sighting of foos took place in December 1942 over France. A Royal Air Force pilot in a Hurricane interceptor saw two lights shooting from near the ground toward his 7,000-foot cruising altitude. At first he took the lights to be tracer fire. But when they ceased ascending and followed him, mimicking every evasive maneuver he made, the pilot realized they were under someone's intelligent control. The lights, which kept an even distance from each other all the while, pursued him for some miles''
The point i am making is that the Hawker Hurricane was a single seat Fighter aircraft, contemporary with the Spitfire, ME109 etc, that Never carried radar of any description
science.howstuffworks.com...
Found fuller account of above
B.C. Lumsden who observed two classic foo-fighters while flying a Hurricane fighter over France in December 1942.
Lumsden had left England at seven p.m., for a mission over the French coast. An hour later, while cruising at 7,000 feet over the mouth of the River Somme, he discovered that he had company. Two steadily climbing orange-coloured lights, with one slightly above the other. Lumsden at first thought the lights may be tracer flak, but discarded the idea when he saw how slowly the objects were moving. He did a full turn and saw the lights astern and to port but now they were larger and brighter. At 7,000 feet they stopped climbing and stayed level with his Hurricane. The frightened pilot executed another full turn, only to discover that the objects had stayed with him. Lumsden nose-dived to 4,000 feet with the lights following his every manoeuvre. Finally they descended to about 1,000 feet below him until he leveled out, at which point they climbed again and resumed pursuit. The two lights seemed to maintain an even distance from each other and varied only slightly in relative height from time to time. One always remained a little lower than the other. At last, as Lumsden's speed reached 260 miles per hour, he was gradually able to outdistance the UFOs. ‘I found it hard to make other members of the squadron believe me when I told my story,’ Lumsden said, ‘but the following night one of the squadron flight commanders in the same area had a similar experience with a green light.’
www.uk-ufo.org...
edit on 28-12-2016 by Bloatis123 because: Found fuller account of story posted
a reply to: Bloatis123
It is a conundrum about what actually caused the foo or indeed what the foo fighters actually were.
There were of course 'flying saucers' seen all over the world once the war was over. Orb like objects have been reported in many cases since. But the 'foo fighter' reports seemed to have faded away as the war concluded. The theory about the HS2 is based on research of a British scientist who studied the Rendlesham case. He gets rather grumpy when his name is banded about so I'll leave him unnamed in this thread.
The Hurricane case is also another exception that does not fit the theory.
So are we dealing with a number of differing things that (like UFOs) get all lumped together when in fact there is more than one answer?
It is a conundrum about what actually caused the foo or indeed what the foo fighters actually were.
There were of course 'flying saucers' seen all over the world once the war was over. Orb like objects have been reported in many cases since. But the 'foo fighter' reports seemed to have faded away as the war concluded. The theory about the HS2 is based on research of a British scientist who studied the Rendlesham case. He gets rather grumpy when his name is banded about so I'll leave him unnamed in this thread.
The Hurricane case is also another exception that does not fit the theory.
So are we dealing with a number of differing things that (like UFOs) get all lumped together when in fact there is more than one answer?
originally posted by: Erno86
a reply to: mirageman
No??? But it still was a foo fighter that I witnessed --- imho --- Which would prove that this sort of alien aerial technology is still in operation
Totally agree with you that the ufo orbs are exactly the same as the foo fighters off WW2. But alien? I don't understand how this can be determined. They seem live a native species/interdimensional force that only appears every now and then to the human eye. I think we need to caution before labelling the orbs as alien.
a reply to: mirageman
This doesn't mean the incidents did, just the reporting of them. Pilots have reported UFOs with the characteristics of 'foo fighters' since WW2, it's just that the terminology changed (Kenneth Arnold in 1947 helped with that). I would also suggest that with UFO reporting frowned upon in the aviation profession, there are probably many other incidents unknown.
Without doubt, not every incident is the same, but unfortunately a lack of proper investigation also makes it more frustrating
There were of course 'flying saucers' seen all over the world once the war was over. Orb like objects have been reported in many cases since. But the 'foo fighter' reports seemed to have faded away as the war concluded.
This doesn't mean the incidents did, just the reporting of them. Pilots have reported UFOs with the characteristics of 'foo fighters' since WW2, it's just that the terminology changed (Kenneth Arnold in 1947 helped with that). I would also suggest that with UFO reporting frowned upon in the aviation profession, there are probably many other incidents unknown.
So are we dealing with a number of differing things that (like UFOs) get all lumped together when in fact there is more than one answer?
Without doubt, not every incident is the same, but unfortunately a lack of proper investigation also makes it more frustrating
a reply to: Zcustosmorum
Most certainly.
I think this is something we probably all agree on, no matter what side of the fence you sit.
From one side I see a reluctance by some people to let go of a UFO case even when it's been explained beyond reasonable doubt. On the other hand there is frustration that many sightings are dismissed as of "no defence significance" or seemingly ignored by government. Then we have civilian organisations like MUFON and Peter Davenport's NUFORC. Both collect a lot of data but I often wonder about the quality of the data in both cases. I wonder how reliable it is and, in Peter Davenport's case, what he really intends to do with his 20+ years of reports. Sure you can view them but does he ever try to sort out the wheat from the chaff and then get some serious analysis done.
We've had studies like Bluebook and our own Project Condign. Hessdalen is interesting but has not really solved anything for us as yet either. Inevitably the problem with any study of a UFO Phenomenon is that it is high cost/low yield in obtaining meaningful results. "we don’t have UFOs.... only UFO reports....." as J.Allen Hynek said.
Pilots have reported UFOs with the characteristics of 'foo fighters' since WW2, it's just that the terminology changed (Kenneth Arnold in 1947 helped with that). I would also suggest that with UFO reporting frowned upon in the aviation profession, there are probably many other incidents unknown.
Most certainly.
Without doubt, not every incident is the same, but unfortunately a lack of proper investigation also makes it more frustrating
I think this is something we probably all agree on, no matter what side of the fence you sit.
From one side I see a reluctance by some people to let go of a UFO case even when it's been explained beyond reasonable doubt. On the other hand there is frustration that many sightings are dismissed as of "no defence significance" or seemingly ignored by government. Then we have civilian organisations like MUFON and Peter Davenport's NUFORC. Both collect a lot of data but I often wonder about the quality of the data in both cases. I wonder how reliable it is and, in Peter Davenport's case, what he really intends to do with his 20+ years of reports. Sure you can view them but does he ever try to sort out the wheat from the chaff and then get some serious analysis done.
We've had studies like Bluebook and our own Project Condign. Hessdalen is interesting but has not really solved anything for us as yet either. Inevitably the problem with any study of a UFO Phenomenon is that it is high cost/low yield in obtaining meaningful results. "we don’t have UFOs.... only UFO reports....." as J.Allen Hynek said.
edit on 28/12/16 by mirageman because: correction
a reply to: mirageman
Fireball sightings have been documented by NUFORC [including my own double sighting] over the past decades since WWII...with many still unexplained --- But the Korean War slowed down the investigation of fireballs by the United States Air Force, and eventually went to Top Secret status by the like's of Project Bluebook with the Project Grudge Report.
quote:
www.oocities.org...
Fireball sightings have been documented by NUFORC [including my own double sighting] over the past decades since WWII...with many still unexplained --- But the Korean War slowed down the investigation of fireballs by the United States Air Force, and eventually went to Top Secret status by the like's of Project Bluebook with the Project Grudge Report.
"1948-49 New Mexico --- Mysterious green fireballs began to make frequent appearances over highly-restricted areas in the southwestern United States. The large number of sightings alarmed the United States Air Force [USAF]. Green Fireballs ---- July 5, 1952. Richlands, Washington --- Two yellow globes of fiery appearance were reported over the Hanford plant --- Seven days later, confirmed by Air Force investigations --- July 19, 1952, Andrews Air Force Base, Maryland --- Andrews Air Force Base tower operators looked to the south where a 'Huge fiery-orange sphere was hovering.'"
quote:
www.oocities.org...
a reply to: mirageman
Yes, that's the answer.
Project Condign has it right: it's a natural phenomenon that interacts with the “imagination library” in unexpected ways, and the world's super-powers have, indeed, taken an interest in the possible military applications of the phenomenon.
So, you have the natural phenomenon which involves some mysterious way in which we interact with our biosphere, and you have the mechanical way in which the same effect can be precipitated.
I think it was stumbled-upon accidentally and then it was turned in to a single-purpose device.
So the number of things we are dealing with would be 3.
Thanks for the great thread.
Have you noticed that it always ends up in the same place?
Are we circling the drain, or are we circling the truth?
Hessdalen is invaluable in that the videos of folks watching the undeniably strange phenomenon exemplify the emotional reaction to UAP.
To me that is gold: to watch the participants react to the lights in the same way that people do to whales, dolphins and other beautiful acts of nature.
It's an extremely important contribution to UFOlogy, considering that all we have is emotionally-charged stories, and no UFOs or aliens.
So are we dealing with a number of differing things that (like UFOs) get all lumped together when in fact there is more than one answer?
Yes, that's the answer.
Project Condign has it right: it's a natural phenomenon that interacts with the “imagination library” in unexpected ways, and the world's super-powers have, indeed, taken an interest in the possible military applications of the phenomenon.
So, you have the natural phenomenon which involves some mysterious way in which we interact with our biosphere, and you have the mechanical way in which the same effect can be precipitated.
I think it was stumbled-upon accidentally and then it was turned in to a single-purpose device.
So the number of things we are dealing with would be 3.
Thanks for the great thread.
Have you noticed that it always ends up in the same place?
Are we circling the drain, or are we circling the truth?
Hessdalen is interesting but has not really solved anything for us as yet either.
Hessdalen is invaluable in that the videos of folks watching the undeniably strange phenomenon exemplify the emotional reaction to UAP.
To me that is gold: to watch the participants react to the lights in the same way that people do to whales, dolphins and other beautiful acts of nature.
It's an extremely important contribution to UFOlogy, considering that all we have is emotionally-charged stories, and no UFOs or aliens.
"we don’t have UFOs.... only UFO reports....."
-J.Allen Hynek
edit on 28-12-2016 by Dan00 because:
....Have you noticed that it always ends up in the same place?
Are we circling the drain, or are we circling the truth?
I think it's because most of us have preconceived ideas about what UFOs are and it is very difficult to be entirely neutral and objective. I like Hynek's quote, because although he died 30 years ago, nothing has changed.
To be honest the intention of this thread, and any further threads in the series, is to show the history of 'official' evidence from governments, military and civilian authorities. In other words what is 'on the record'. But obviously when people start adding their own comments then things start to go off at tangents. Which is fine as the OP is the starting point for discussion.
But I don't know whether we are circling the drain or the truth?
Maybe there's a drain of truth somewhere
Here's some interesting fireball reports from NUFORC:
www.nuforc.org...
www.nuforc.org...
www.nuforc.org...
www.nuforc.org...
www.nuforc.org...
www.nuforc.org...
www.nuforc.org...
www.nuforc.org...
edit on 29-12-2016 by Erno86 because: link work
a reply to: mirageman
"UFOs" are substrate independent. That's the thing which people are missing.
That's it.
Until that intellectual step is taken, no forward progress will ever be possible.
When all valid reports are collated..that is the one and only pattern.
Kev
"UFOs" are substrate independent. That's the thing which people are missing.
That's it.
Until that intellectual step is taken, no forward progress will ever be possible.
When all valid reports are collated..that is the one and only pattern.
Kev
originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
originally posted by: Erno86
a reply to: mirageman
No??? But it still was a foo fighter that I witnessed --- imho --- Which would prove that this sort of alien aerial technology is still in operation
Totally agree with you that the ufo orbs are exactly the same as the foo fighters off WW2. But alien? I don't understand how this can be determined. They seem live a native species/interdimensional force that only appears every now and then to the human eye. I think we need to caution before labelling the orbs as alien.
"Native species/interdimensional force" ??? --- I can't fathom a foo fighter being a "native species," or a native species that pilots one for the time being; because no one here on Earth is selling or making such an aerial craft [as far as to my knowledge] --- And as for an a "interdimensional force --- I'm sorry....I just don't believe in the possibility of an "interdimensional force" --- Because I have faith that a regular Joe Six-Pack can achieve interstellar travel, if he is lucky enough to be strapped aboard a E.T. alien crafted foo fighter; like the star travelers who visit our planet most likely do.
Erno
edit on 30-12-2016 by Erno86 because: added a few words
More on the USS Supply 1904 foo fighter sighting...
www.worldufophotosandnews.org...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.worldufophotosandnews.org...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 31-12-2016 by Erno86 because: link work
edit on 31-12-2016 by Erno86 because: ditto
"THE NAZI UFO MYTHOS"
Link: www.naziufomythos.greyfalcon.us...
Link: www.naziufomythos.greyfalcon.us...
edit on 2-1-2017 by Erno86 because: link work
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