ancient knowledge and freemasons, then & now.

originally posted by: AMPTAH
They never do.

KSigMason, AugustusMasonicus, NetworkDude -- they all give very upfront information and are very open. I'm not sure who/what you're referring to...

All Freemasons will ever say publicly, is give a bunch of names of people who were Freemasons, and claim some historical references to show they were around for a long time. But, about what Freemasons actually do or believe, they are always silent.

Again, no true as far as I know. The same crowd of ruffians I mentioned above are always around to answer questions. I try to as well but I am relatively new (6 years) to the craft.

It's a big mystery. Which, of course, you have to join to find out.

Again..Google is your friend.

The whole problem with Freemasonry, is that you can't know anything specific about it, until you're one of them. And once you become a Freemason, it's too late, to change your mind. Once a Mason, always a mason. You can't "change back" to a simple "cowan."

Now I know you're making this up as you go. You can always 'change' your mind and resign from a lodge. It's that simple. I'm not sure where you're getting that information from, but it certainly isn't from the UGLE.

a reply to: Sahabi

I have to say, that was well written and gave me a good chuckle

(you do know one of the more gullible out there will take your post as gospel and a new religion will form from it. You *may* very well become the next messiah )

a reply to: Sahabi

a reply to: AMPTAH

"But, about what Freemasons actually do or believe, they are always silent."

I have not encountered any secrets of the Craft that could not be publicly found on the internet.

"They are always seeking "more light". Taking "higher degrees" to find that light."

In 1 John 1:5, it is written;
"God is light; in him there is no darkness at all."

While in Matthew 5:16, Jesus says;
"Let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven."

"God made men the way they are, so how can Freemasonry improve on these men?"

In the same way that people can be improved by the upbringing of their parents,... by the understandings gained through schools and universities,... by the skills learned in the Boy/Girl Scouts,... by practicing and conditioning for any sport or athletic endeavor,... by working towards the mastery of skills, talents, and trades,... or by their participation and/or adherence to religious or philosophical teachings, schools, sermons, or even monasticism.

There are millions and millions of ways to improve a person. Freemasonry contains upright morality and ethics, which can help to make a good person better by directing the focus of their good nature for the beauty and benefit of all.

"What does Freemasonry do to "bad men"?"

"That explains why bad men get worse. They are simply being "perfected" in the eyes of their opposite god."

"an evil person might be constrained and limited in his ability to do evil in the society, Freemasonry somehow removes these limitations, so that the same man can now act more "freely."

"the normal checks and balances that constrain men from evil are removed."

"evil men are empowered to the evil that was always sitting there in their minds."

In order to join Freemasonry, one must ask and petition a Lodge. There is an application process, an investigation of the individual, an interview Question and Answer session, and ultimately, a determining vote. All of this occurs to determine the quality and character of the petitioner. If the person's character is not that of a "Good Person", they will not be admitted. Upon entry into Freemasonry, if the individual displays a wicked nature unbecoming of the positive qualities that supports the Lodge of Freemasonry, that individual will be expelled. For example, a criminal record can prevent entry, and a criminal act can cause removal.

A petitioner will be analyzed to determine if they are a "Good Person", and a Freemason that detrimentally becomes less than "Better" or "Good" will be discharged.

"Lucifer are acceptable"

In Revelations 22:16, Jesus is mentioned to be Lucifer, a.k.a., The Morning Star;
"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright (lampros) and morning (prōinos) star (astēr)."

While the usage of "Lucifer" in Isiah 14:12 is the sad perpetuation of a Latin mistranslation;
"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

Latinists made the error highlighted in red. The original Hebrew actually says;
"Helel Ben Shachar"
"Helel son of Shachar"

No evil "Lucifer" in the Bible. We must look to the fictional works of Dante Alighieri and John Milton if we want to find that evil Lucifer of folklore.

a reply to: noonebutme



I had fun pumping that one out People are willing to believe just about anything under the Sun. Not to play holy, because I'm willing to bet I still hold on to some incorrect notions,... I've found myself in error many times throughout my life. I have a lot of things to laugh at myself about hahaha! But I am willing to let go of my false misconceptions when I become aware of the error. If I do get canonized, I hope they make make a cool 4-D movie about it and come out with some cool action figurines with the vintage kungfu grip!

originally posted by: Sahabi
In order to join Freemasonry, one must ask and petition a Lodge. There is an application process, an investigation of the individual, an interview Question and Answer session, and ultimately, a determining vote. All of this occurs to determine the quality and character of the petitioner. If the person's character is not that of a "Good Person", they will not be admitted.

But, Anders Brevik was admitted. Therefore, he must have been a "Good Person."

But, what is called "Good", depends on which God is being served. Anders Brevik still insists that what he did was "Good". He has no remorse. No regrets. He'd do the same thing again, if allowed. He believes in his God. He believes in his version of Freemasonry. He considers himself a "Knight" of the order, a "celebrated champion" of his cause.

Upon entry into Freemasonry, if the individual displays a wicked nature unbecoming of the positive qualities that supports the Lodge of Freemasonry, that individual will be expelled. For example, a criminal record can prevent entry, and a criminal act can cause removal.

A person is only expelled from Freemasonry when they bring dishonor to the craft, by "revealing" any of the inner workings of the order.

It is necessary to expel such persons, because Freemasonry is a "society with secrets". And "secrets" must remain "secret."

So, "bad men" are not expelled for being "bad", but for "revealing bad things" that the craft does.

Anders Brevik was not expelled, until he "revealed" to the whole world what the craft was about. He did it so openly, and obviously, that everyone then knew that Norwegian Freemasonry promoted evil rituals in secret. That's why he was expelled. Anders was "bad" all along, but wasn't expelled before he "revealed" the truth. He entered the craft a "bad person", was accepted and found "worthy" to become a member, by others who saw in him a reflection of themselves: "he is one of us" they thought. They knew he was a right fit. But, he went beyond their rules, and revealed what type of men made up that particular lodge. That's why they expelled him. That was their "secret".

originally posted by: AMPTAH
But, Anders Brevik was admitted. Therefore, he must have been a "Good Person."

He's also a sociopath/psychopath.

Such people are very good at lying and more importantly, *believing* their own lies. You can always lie at a Masonic interview -- and if your'e good at it, who would know otherwise? It's no different to any other situation where an oath or pledge or vow must be given. if you lie...well.. you lie..(shrug)

But, what is called "Good", depends on which God is being served. Anders Brevik still insists that what he did was "Good". He has no remorse. No regrets. He'd do the same thing again, if allowed. He believes in his God. He believes in his version of Freemasonry. He considers himself a "Knight" of the order, a "celebrated champion" of his cause.

There are millions of people who kill in the name of (a) God. That doesn't mean their beliefs are correct or makes any one of them more 'wrong' than they other - they are all equally wrong. To kill in the name of *any* made-up deity is inherently wrong and if one cannot see the difference, said person needs medical help. Freemasonry cannot stop things like that. I'm not sure where you're going with your line of thinking.

Anders Brevik was not expelled, until he "revealed" to the whole world what the craft was about. He did it so openly, and obviously, that everyone then knew that Norwegian Freemasonry promoted evil rituals in secret.

Really? Is that what 'everyone' then knew? Can I go as far as saying because a select few Catholic priests abused children, the Catholic religion openly promotes and practices child abuse? No. Because, regardless of innuendo, that is not the intention of the religion.

But, he went beyond their rules, and revealed what type of men made up that particular lodge. That's why they expelled him. That was their "secret".

But i reckon he didn't display or publicly discuss his homicidal tendencies to members of the lodge. And I doubt it 'came up' in his interview. Different lodges will apply different levels of tolerances, I find in regards to openly discussing the internal workings. I think the general rule is, you do not. But i think it also depends on the context. But the way you are wording things, you make it sound like the ONLY reason the lodge expelled him was due to discussing lodge inner workings and not because of his sociopathy -- which they didn't know.

I'm really confused where you're going with this..

a reply to: AMPTAH

I can mostly only find the Alex Jones and Infowars spin on the event. In this case, it's a GREAT thing that this particular snippet from Wikipedia is fully sourced and cited:

At the time of the attacks, Breivik was a member of the Lodge of St. Olaf at the Three Columns in Oslo[265] and had displayed photographs of himself in partial Masonic regalia on his Facebook profile.[266][267] In interviews after the attacks, his lodge said it had only minimal contact with him, and that when made aware of Breivik's membership, Grand Master of the Norwegian Order of Freemasons, Ivar A. Skaar, issued an edict immediately excluding him from the fraternity based upon the acts he carried out and the values that appear to have motivated them.[268][269] According to the Lodge records, Breivik took part in a total of four meetings between his initiation in February 2007 and his exclusion from the order – one each to receive the first, second and third degree, and one other meeting.[270] and held no offices or functions within the Lodge.[271] Skaar said that although Breivik was a member of the Order, his actions showed that he is in no way a Mason.[270]

Four meetings total, in one's Masonic career, is hardly an indication that he represented Freemasonry, let alone fully understood it. He spent no time moving through the chairs, which shows that he was extremely inexperienced and new to Freemasonry.


Is there even any evidence of the alleged 2002 reestablishment of the; "Pauperes commilitones Christi Templique Solomonici", from any source other than reports based upon Anders Breivik's crazy rantings? And why would such an elite and secretive group allow an unknown rookie into their midst? Makes no sense.

The Freemasonic "Knights Templar" already exists, and it DEFINITELY is not what Breivik is ranting about.

a reply to: noonebutme

we need a new tv action show called The Man From UGLE...

a reply to: Bedlam

The show would never get past the opening credits due to the amount of paperwork that UGLE requires

originally posted by: noonebutme

He's also a sociopath/psychopath.

That's a label. Are you saying that Freemasons are not sociopath/psychopath types? Only, Anders?

Such people are very good at lying and more importantly, *believing* their own lies. You can always lie at a Masonic interview -- and if you're good at it, who would know otherwise? It's no different to any other situation where an oath or pledge or vow must be given. if you lie...well.. you lie..(shrug)

But, Freemasonry requires it's members to lie. If any outsider speaks the truth about Freemasonry, a brother of the craft is required to deny it, to contest the true statements, to ridicule the outsider, to defend the craft, to protect its secrets. That's really the problem, here. If you're not prepared to lie, under any circumstances, even to protect your brothers and the secrets of the craft, you can't become a member.

I'm really confused where you're going with this..

Just the truth...will do...

a reply to: AMPTAH

I still can't find any validity to Breivik's crazy rantings.

Do you feel comfortable believing the words of a psychotic killer while ignoring the facts of the matter?

"British and Norwegian investigators are convinced that Breivik’s Knights Templars do not exist but say it is possible that he was inspired by information he found on the internet."

Anders Behring Breivik trial: the 'real' Lionheart

a reply to: AMPTAH

if you ask about the goat parts they will tell you it's a lie.

originally posted by: Bedlam
a reply to: AMPTAH

if you ask about the goat parts they will tell you it's a lie.

That's what I don't understand.

Why deny the goat parts, but openly admit to eating people? AugustusMasonicus admits it freely all the time.

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Bedlam
a reply to: AMPTAH

if you ask about the goat parts they will tell you it's a lie.

That's what I don't understand.

Why deny the goat parts, but openly admit to eating people? AugustusMasonicus admits it freely all the time.

THE APOSTATE. Next thing, he'll be revealing the secret trowel ceremony.

a reply to: Bedlam

Is that the one where you twist the pink fluffy towels until they're tight and flick them at an initiate?

If it is, he already told me about that one.

He also said that towels are a great tool for getting places. Just hold one up and *poof* you get a lift, just like that. Destinations may vary though, so he said.

originally posted by: Sahabi
a reply to: AMPTAH

I still can't find any validity to Breivik's crazy rantings.

Do you feel comfortable believing the words of a psychotic killer while ignoring the facts of the matter?

I can't ignore the facts, since I don't know what they are.

But, I argue from the statements made, and use logic and reason to draw reasonable conclusions.

We don't "Knight Ourselves". That's an honor that someone else bestows upon us.

A Knighthood has no meaning without a Royal Court, or some kind of collective body like such a Court.

The Knight is not the highest authority in the land, he exists only because of that higher authority, whether it be a King or a Grandmaster.

The idea of a Knight, implicates someone higher than Anders Brevik is involved in the plot.

Why did Anders believe that he was a Knight? Usually, because someone told him so.

That person remains in the shadows, and his minions are all instructed to pretend that Anders is just coo-coo, and must have dreamed it all up in his "deranged" mind.

Freemasonry messes with the mind. So, it's not surprising. If it's all "secret" activity, we'd expect denials, and fingers pointing the other way, to implicate Anders is the only one at fault for his delusions and actions on those delusions.

If Freemasonry had "no secrets", there would never be any doubt. We only need "secrets" when the public would not approve.

a reply to: AMPTAH

You seem to think you know an aweful lot, yet you're not a member.

To me it looks like you've bought into all the conspiracy crap and not even looked into it yourself.

Let me guess, you also believe Albert Pike was 100% accurate?

originally posted by: AMPTAH
That's a label. Are you saying that Freemasons are not sociopath/psychopath types? Only, Anders?

Correct, Freemasons are not sociopath/psychopath types.
Incorrect - Anders is not the only sociopath/psychopath in the world.
I'm also not saying there are no sociopath/psychopath Freemasons. But I disagree with your wording; trying to imply that all Freemasons are of that nature. Just as I could, quite incorrectly, label all Catholics as child abusers.

But, Freemasonry requires it's members to lie. If any outsider speaks the truth about Freemasonry, a brother of the craft is required to deny it, to contest the true statements, to ridicule the outsider, to defend the craft, to protect its secrets.

That isn't true at all. I can tell people I'm a Mason if asked. There is no requirement to contest or ridicule the outsider. I don't know where you are getting this from but it isn't true. At least not in my lodge.

That's really the problem, here. If you're not prepared to lie, under any circumstances, even to protect your brothers and the secrets of the craft, you can't become a member.

Also incorrect. Family comes first, then work then Freemasonry and at NO POINT are you to compromise the first two for the latter. So if things arose, for whatever reason, that my Masonic secrets had to be disclosed to my family, then I would.

If someone comes up and says is "this" the secret handshake, I will happily avoid answering it properly or pretend like I don't know what they are doing.. If someone also asks me if I stole from the church tin I will also say no. Or if TerryDon can twerk it like no one else alive I will also lie and say, 'no'.

If i were to ask you what your main email password was, or what your bank card pin code is, will you tell me? If not, why not? Why won't you tell me these private, personal things about yourself? Is it my business? Do I have a right to know?

No, I don't. And as you're not a mason, what right do you have to question my personal, private life? None.

a reply to: noonebutme

Don't dis my twerking skills!

They're legen....wait for it













dary.