Was life better before the war and in the 50's?

a reply to: 727Sky

more Americans spoke with a common voice and shared common goals...

that pinpoints todays problems perfectly. There is too much diversity,too many people wanting too many different things and when the government can`t make everyone happy people start screaming discrimination.

Too many people with completely different goals are trying to pull the country in the direction that they want it to go and the country ends up going nowhere, because everyone is pulling in different directions.

humans should learn from nature, nature is very diverse but it doesn`t try to jam all that diversity into one place each thing has it`s own place and it`s own purpose.Birds have the sky to fly in and fish have water to swim in, if nature tried to change that to not "discriminate" against either the birds or the fish things would be a real mess.nature doesn`t need flying fish because it already has birds and nature doesn`t need birds that live under the water because it already has fish.

a country can`t survive if the people don`t have similar goals and values.It`s not possible for people with very different goals to live together peacefully and in equality.

Definitely a case of rose tinted spectacles but then it was probably better in America. In Europe it still meant rationing and in the UK, as a simple example, you are still talking about outside shared toilets with your neighbours.

a reply to: Annee

Stop living in the past Annee, Live in the NOW.

originally posted by: fusiondoe
I visited my Grandparents this week and over a very fine bottle of Single Malt Scotch in my Grandfathers special Xmas stash, I sat down and listened to one of his many stories and something struck me.

My grandparents always speak so lovingly and highly of life back in the 50's. The feeling of freedom and elation after winning the war. The sense of community where everybody shared what little they had with each other and there was no greed. Playing on bomb sites, living on the same street as other family members and so much more.

When I look at the world today, the strangers on the trains with their heads buried in their iPhone and the teenagers sitting indoors on their Xbox day in day out, I can't help but think... life sounded so much better then.

As my grandfather put it... back then nobody had anything so you were happy with your lot, there wasn't any greed or selfishness.

Cherish your grandparent's memories. More valuable than gold. It goes without saying that life was easier when communities had an utter sense of morale, and common sense flourished like the Nile. Sadly, when it comes to common sense and morale -- blatant human traits -- IN THIS EMBARRASSMENT OF A DEGENERATIVE AGE -- CLEARLY WANTING ABSOLUTELY ZERO TO DO WITH HUMAN MORALE AND COMMON SENSE (ACTIONS CLEARLY SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS) -- HENCE THIS CIRCUS SIDESHOW DESPONDENT AGE ATTEMPTING TO RULE THE LAND.

It is interesting how some otherwise intelligent and well read people, are incapable of pausing to look at the gist of the conversation and comment; instead they just go... what about me... and shove their agenda into the conversation.

To a degree yes... it was a better time, with large swaths of both countries looking at less crime, lots of jobs... yea you didnt have as much stuff, though you did have stronger communities; and people learned to appreciate the important things in life rather than chasing the dream of more stuff that will only keep you happy for a moment.

No it was not perfect, but in many aspects it was a better time than now.

a reply to: Annee

USA in the fifties WAS the Christian Right. that's how things went so well.

the USA started going downhill when things like prayer and Bible Reading were thrown out of the public square.

during the 1950s the African-American out-of-wedlock rate was 7%.
now it's 70%. I don't call that progress.

originally posted by: ElGoobero
a reply to: Annee

USA in the fifties WAS the Christian Right. that's how things went so well.

the USA started going downhill when things like prayer and Bible Reading were thrown out of the public square.

during the 1950s the African-American out-of-wedlock rate was 7%.
now it's 70%. I don't call that progress.

This ^

originally posted by: fusiondoe

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: fusiondoe
The feeling of freedom and elation after winning the war. The sense of community where everybody shared what little they had with each other and there was no greed.

Sounds more like the Flower Power 70s, then the 50s.

The Flower Power years included everyone.

The Happy Days 50s, was "normal", White, Married, Hetero Christians.

The Good Old Days involves very selective memory.

Why does everybody have to make it about race and sexuality... none of these things were discussed in the slightest, only the sense of community and the fact that people were less greedy then. I appreciate that yes back then homosexuality was illegal but that was not the basis of this thread.

Because America had forced racial segregation back then. By law. Bans on Interracial marriages were also enshrined in nearly all southeastern State Constitutions. And the KKK was a mainstream organization back then with something like 20% of Southern white males being members. It was ok to beat wives & kids back then, and LGBT citizens were also treated like crap. So your grandparents' view of America back then doesn't match the America for many other people.

Put it like this: My grandfather was drafted into a unit under Patton in WW2. He literally helped save Europe from Hitler & the Third Reich. But he could only serve in a racially segregated tank unit and when he came back to America, he was still a literal second class citizen. African Americans weren't even allowed to vote for another 20 years, even though the males were drafted to fight in American wars. We also couldn't testify in court against a white person, serve in a jury against a white person, run for office in most places, attend most colleges and universities (they were generally "white only", which is why HBCUs exist in the first place), etc.

In other words, most of 1950s America was the ultimate racially oppressive "safe space". It also oppressed all other demographics that were deemed "outsiders" or "unnatural" (and obviously women didn't have full rights and benefits either). You're basically asking if America was better before the Civil Rights Movement.

And ironically, the reason America was better back then economically for a lot of "white" Americans (the legal designation for 1st class citizens) was because there were a lot of powerful socialist programs to help them. The Federal govt could fund those programs because from 1936 to 1964 the highest federal income tax rate was at least 77%, maxing out at 92% in 1952 & 1953 (and it was 91% for roughly 10 years afterwards, found HERE). And federal corporate income tax levels were ridiculously higher, with any corporate income over $25,000 a year being taxed at a whopping 52% (from 1953-1963, found HERE).

Plus, most of the "New Deal" programs specifically excluded racial minorities, with government agencies also able to discriminate based on race and ethnicity. These included the housing programs & other economic stimulus programs that literally created the middle class in America after the crushing Depression years. Watch the 1st 8 minutes or so of this video to learn more:

a reply to: fusiondoe

To many people, that's what those years were about. Not prosperity and community.

Saying the 'community' was good is the last thing people want to hear that were oppressed by that same community.

originally posted by: imjack
a reply to: fusiondoe

To many people, that's what those years were about. Not prosperity and community.

Saying the 'community' was good is the last thing people want to hear that were oppressed by that same community.

Exactly. It's like someone pining over the good old days in post-Depression Germany when their economy was booming, Berlin had just held the 1936 Olympics, and their country's ambitious leader was just crowned Time's Man of the Year.

originally posted by: CADpro
Those were the days of hard working people with calloused hands and strong backs. Never afraid to tell it like it is to also sit and have home prepared supper every night with their families. All knew their place. Then it was all destroyed when a certain group got equal/special rights. This was the beginning of the end for this country. I look forward to our new President to Make America Great Again by creating jobs. This special bunch can either pull their pants up and go to work...or go without.

Oh you mean when blacks and women gained equality. Yeah the world was a better place when we could still treat people like 2nd class citizens or property. [/sarc]

I've been doing a little bit of research recently into old TV and radio programmes and think that the following illustrates how cosy the UK could be (for some, in some respects) in the Fifties.

There was a radio programme called Listen With Mother, aimed at the under fives. Each weekday afternoon, for about 15 minutes, the little ones would be entertained with a story and nursery rhymes:

www.turnipnet.com...

Another particularly memorable song, which featured at least once a week, ended: This is the way the old men ride, Hobble-dee Hobble-dee Hobble-dee and down into a ditch!

It is quite likely that this latter song was the origin of the following anecdote sent in by George Dixon's son, Paul: "My father told us one story about the programme. A listener had called in with the complaint that her child had been terrified by the sound of galloping horses. It was explained to her that the sound effect was made with the traditional half coconut shells, and how she could make the sound herself to show the child. They would not run that song again until she let them know that the child understood, which she did. Presumably there was one satisfied customer!"

I think that is similar to the sort of community feeling and caring that your grandparents were referring to.

Here's a link to a BBC site featuring an interview with one of the producers. Try listening to it, it's charming and really is from a bygone age:

www.bbc.co.uk...

Here is a transcript because I can't work out how to post the video:

Producer: When I'm building a programme, I always have in mind just a child or a couple of children in the intimate setting of the home, with or without mother, although we call the programme Listen with Mother.

We find still that children believe that the storyteller is inside the box in some way, that this disembodied voice creates a very concrete and vivid image in the minds of the children.

Interviewer: What about the piano? That must be rather a problem to accommodate that in the radio as well?

Producer: Well, indeed. One child we heard of walked round and round the box and did express great surprise that, not only was the speaker there, but the piano there too, but didn't question it, didn't query this. And children very often go to the set and stroke it and touch it and press their ears close up to it, treating it very much as they would treat a visible storyteller.

Interviewer: Do they seem to have a sense that the stories are being told just for them individually?

Producer: Indeed yes, they believe that the storyteller sees them. They believe that she hears their replies. We heard of one little girl, who talked to her little boyfriend next door, and who said, my lady played Humpty Dumpty today, and the little boy's reply was, so did mine. They didn't at all think that this was the same programme. They still thought it was an individual programme each for her or for him.

Thank you for your educational reply! Much appreciated

Star for you

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: fusiondoe

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: fusiondoe
The feeling of freedom and elation after winning the war. The sense of community where everybody shared what little they had with each other and there was no greed.

Sounds more like the Flower Power 70s, then the 50s.

The Flower Power years included everyone.

The Happy Days 50s, was "normal", White, Married, Hetero Christians.

The Good Old Days involves very selective memory.

Why does everybody have to make it about race and sexuality... none of these things were discussed in the slightest, only the sense of community and the fact that people were less greedy then. I appreciate that yes back then homosexuality was illegal but that was not the basis of this thread.

Because America had forced racial segregation back then. By law. Bans on Interracial marriages were also enshrined in nearly all southeastern State Constitutions. And the KKK was a mainstream organization back then with something like 20% of Southern white males being members. It was ok to beat wives & kids back then, and LGBT citizens were also treated like crap. So your grandparents' view of America back then doesn't match the America for many other people.

Put it like this: My grandfather was drafted into a unit under Patton in WW2. He literally helped save Europe from Hitler & the Third Reich. But he could only serve in a racially segregated tank unit and when he came back to America, he was still a literal second class citizen. African Americans weren't even allowed to vote for another 20 years, even though the males were drafted to fight in American wars. We also couldn't testify in court against a white person, serve in a jury against a white person, run for office in most places, attend most colleges and universities (they were generally "white only", which is why HBCUs exist in the first place), etc.

In other words, most of 1950s America was the ultimate racially oppressive "safe space". It also oppressed all other demographics that were deemed "outsiders" or "unnatural" (and obviously women didn't have full rights and benefits either). You're basically asking if America was better before the Civil Rights Movement.

And ironically, the reason America was better back then economically for a lot of "white" Americans (the legal designation for 1st class citizens) was because there were a lot of powerful socialist programs to help them. The Federal govt could fund those programs because from 1936 to 1964 the highest federal income tax rate was at least 77%, maxing out at 92% in 1952 & 1953 (and it was 91% for roughly 10 years afterwards, found HERE). And federal corporate income tax levels were ridiculously higher, with any corporate income over $25,000 a year being taxed at a whopping 52% (from 1953-1963, found HERE).

Plus, most of the "New Deal" programs specifically excluded racial minorities, with government agencies also able to discriminate based on race and ethnicity. These included the housing programs & other economic stimulus programs that literally created the middle class in America after the crushing Depression years. Watch the 1st 8 minutes or so of this video to learn more:

originally posted by: berenike
I've been doing a little bit of research recently into old TV and radio programmes and think that the following illustrates how cosy the UK could be (for some, in some respects) in the Fifties.

There was a radio programme called Listen With Mother, aimed at the under fives. Each weekday afternoon, for about 15 minutes, the little ones would be entertained with a story and nursery rhymes:

www.turnipnet.com...

Another particularly memorable song, which featured at least once a week, ended: This is the way the old men ride, Hobble-dee Hobble-dee Hobble-dee and down into a ditch!

It is quite likely that this latter song was the origin of the following anecdote sent in by George Dixon's son, Paul: "My father told us one story about the programme. A listener had called in with the complaint that her child had been terrified by the sound of galloping horses. It was explained to her that the sound effect was made with the traditional half coconut shells, and how she could make the sound herself to show the child. They would not run that song again until she let them know that the child understood, which she did. Presumably there was one satisfied customer!"

I think that is similar to the sort of community feeling and caring that your grandparents were referring to.

Here's a link to a BBC site featuring an interview with one of the producers. Try listening to it, it's charming and really is from a bygone age:

www.bbc.co.uk...

Here is a transcript because I can't work out how to post the video:

Producer: When I'm building a programme, I always have in mind just a child or a couple of children in the intimate setting of the home, with or without mother, although we call the programme Listen with Mother.

We find still that children believe that the storyteller is inside the box in some way, that this disembodied voice creates a very concrete and vivid image in the minds of the children.

Interviewer: What about the piano? That must be rather a problem to accommodate that in the radio as well?

Producer: Well, indeed. One child we heard of walked round and round the box and did express great surprise that, not only was the speaker there, but the piano there too, but didn't question it, didn't query this. And children very often go to the set and stroke it and touch it and press their ears close up to it, treating it very much as they would treat a visible storyteller.

Interviewer: Do they seem to have a sense that the stories are being told just for them individually?

Producer: Indeed yes, they believe that the storyteller sees them. They believe that she hears their replies. We heard of one little girl, who talked to her little boyfriend next door, and who said, my lady played Humpty Dumpty today, and the little boy's reply was, so did mine. They didn't at all think that this was the same programme. They still thought it was an individual programme each for her or for him.

Thanks! This is the sort of thing I was referring too!

a reply to: fusiondoe

Thanks.

a reply to: fusiondoe

Life was simpler then.

I find it ironic that the more innovation to make our lives easier has actually gotten it more complicated.

I agree

a reply to: DBCowboy

originally posted by: fusiondoe

originally posted by: berenike
I've been doing a little bit of research recently into old TV and radio programmes and think that the following illustrates how cosy the UK could be (for some, in some respects) in the Fifties.

There was a radio programme called Listen With Mother, aimed at the under fives. Each weekday afternoon, for about 15 minutes, the little ones would be entertained with a story and nursery rhymes:

www.turnipnet.com...

Another particularly memorable song, which featured at least once a week, ended: This is the way the old men ride, Hobble-dee Hobble-dee Hobble-dee and down into a ditch!

It is quite likely that this latter song was the origin of the following anecdote sent in by George Dixon's son, Paul: "My father told us one story about the programme. A listener had called in with the complaint that her child had been terrified by the sound of galloping horses. It was explained to her that the sound effect was made with the traditional half coconut shells, and how she could make the sound herself to show the child. They would not run that song again until she let them know that the child understood, which she did. Presumably there was one satisfied customer!"

I think that is similar to the sort of community feeling and caring that your grandparents were referring to.

Here's a link to a BBC site featuring an interview with one of the producers. Try listening to it, it's charming and really is from a bygone age:

www.bbc.co.uk...

Here is a transcript because I can't work out how to post the video:

Producer: When I'm building a programme, I always have in mind just a child or a couple of children in the intimate setting of the home, with or without mother, although we call the programme Listen with Mother.

We find still that children believe that the storyteller is inside the box in some way, that this disembodied voice creates a very concrete and vivid image in the minds of the children.

Interviewer: What about the piano? That must be rather a problem to accommodate that in the radio as well?

Producer: Well, indeed. One child we heard of walked round and round the box and did express great surprise that, not only was the speaker there, but the piano there too, but didn't question it, didn't query this. And children very often go to the set and stroke it and touch it and press their ears close up to it, treating it very much as they would treat a visible storyteller.

Interviewer: Do they seem to have a sense that the stories are being told just for them individually?

Producer: Indeed yes, they believe that the storyteller sees them. They believe that she hears their replies. We heard of one little girl, who talked to her little boyfriend next door, and who said, my lady played Humpty Dumpty today, and the little boy's reply was, so did mine. They didn't at all think that this was the same programme. They still thought it was an individual programme each for her or for him.

Thanks! This is the sort of thing I was referring too!

I don't think non-Americans understand the dominant power of the Christian Religious Right (mostly white) in America.

You talk about your kid show. When Sesame Street came on TV in America it was boycotted and protested by the Christian Right for its diversity and having ethnically diverse hosts.

Anything outside the "norm" was bad. The "norm" being white Christian.

I don't see it much different then forced Marshall law with an ideaology of fear if you break the rules.

We are a diverse country still fighting to break free from a forced ideology. Millions & millions of dollars have been and are still being spent today on this.

We are not a Norman Rockwell painting.

10 Hilarious Right-Wing Freak-Outs Over Children's Cartoons: www.alternet.org...'s_cartoons

originally posted by: fusiondoe

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: fusiondoe
The feeling of freedom and elation after winning the war. The sense of community where everybody shared what little they had with each other and there was no greed.

Sounds more like the Flower Power 70s, then the 50s.

The Flower Power years included everyone.

The Happy Days 50s, was "normal", White, Married, Hetero Christians.

The Good Old Days involves very selective memory.

Why does everybody have to make it about race and sexuality... none of these things were discussed in the slightest, only the sense of community and the fact that people were less greedy then. I appreciate that yes back then homosexuality was illegal but that was not the basis of this thread.

There are some members who will always bring up race and sexuality in every thread they can.I have
started to ignore these members and move along.
On topic...I was born in the 1950's and what I can remember life was more simple and innocent back
then.I remember playing outside and there were always neighbors keeping an eye on the kids.I like
the TV shows from that era as well,Gunsmoke,Rifleman,Rawhide,Rin Tin Tin,to name a few.Saturday
morning was spent watching cartoons for hours while eating a bowl of cereal.
I also like the music from the 50's and still do to this day.A lot of bad things happened back then it
just wasn't as broadcasted as it is today.

I love music from the 50's also

a reply to: mamabeth