Virgin Mary Conspiracy

So, I was listening to a radio show online the other night, and the guy was talking about how the Catholic church is covering up the death of Mary to say that she rose to heaven (I think his name is Graham Phillips). He said that a lot of people used to go to the tomb of Mary, just like they went to any church that had supposed religious relics.

Anyways, looking online one can see that there are several claimed tombs of Mary, but the Catholic doctrine is in total contradiction to her dying and being buried on earth. In fact, they even claim that she, unlike all other humans, was born without "original sin". This is very convenient for the church, to make everyone believe that they are born evil, and thus in need of the church, while the mother of their savior was perfect and wonderful.

Anyways, this is an obvious lie, one way or the other, and proves that Catholic teaching are bogus. Either Mary did die, and thus was not taken to heaven as they claim, or she was taken but they lied about it for centuries to make money off of pilgrims with fake relics.

www.newadvent.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

It's not uncommon for the Catholic Church to lie and cover things up
That's why Protestant movement came to be, though we have issues as well

Awaits onslaught....

a reply to: CB328

I think part of this is because many truths are not fully revealed...
So only a part of the story is told or released...
Would it be more believable to people to be told all those who have been visibly taken to "Heaven" were seen to have been lifted into to a massive golden city appearing to be made of crystal which floated in the sky?
Only famous men of old with access to great secrets have eluded to such...

But I will also offer this thought on the matter...
Mary was chosen and found to be worthy in the eyes of God...
Jesus loved everyone... But surely he would have loved and respected his human mother...
Would you if capable of doing miraculous things for your mother not do them?
Surely there is no mystery in the answer to that question...

a reply to: CB328

History of the Doctrine of the Assumption


THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY: A BELIEF SINCE APOSTOLIC TIMES


This thread is the result of something you heard on the radio. The first time I ever heard a Protestant talk smack on a Catholics was on a radio. Really, I was surprised. Having gone to Catholic grade school and high schools I can honestly say that no priest, catechist, or any Catholic I ever encountered said anything bad about Protestants until I came to ATS.

I don't think the poster I am referring to still posts here anymore.

Love your enemies.

Emanuel (jesus) made a deal with his contactee, for if he goes through crusifiction his mother would be taken onboard of the mothership and live happily

a reply to: suvorov

Thank you for illustrating the reason why truths are withheld...
That was perfect really...

Not only is it unbiblical, but in direct violation of Revelation 22:18.

There are only two people mentioned in scripture -- by name -- who "ascended" into Heaven without having tasted death: Enoch, and Elijah (Genesis 5:24, II Kings 2:11).

It is my personal belief that these are the two "witnesses" that will appear during endtime events (Revelation 11:3-12).

originally posted by: sad_eyed_lady
a reply to: CB328

History of the Doctrine of the Assumption


THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY: A BELIEF SINCE APOSTOLIC TIMES

This thread is the result of something you heard on the radio. The first time I ever heard a Protestant talk smack on a Catholics was on a radio. Really, I was surprised. Having gone to Catholic grade school and high schools I can honestly say that no priest, catechist, or any Catholic I ever encountered said anything bad about Protestants until I came to ATS.

I don't think the poster I am referring to still posts here anymore.

Love your enemies.

There is a lot the Protestant church could learn from the seemingly graciousness attitude of the Catholic Church and them not attacking Protestants anymore
Though I think the Catholic Church intends to draw the Protestants back at some stage

The sonic in me makes me think, not talking about Protestants is away to save members from finding out the truth

originally posted by: suvorov
Emanuel (jesus) made a deal with his contactee, for if he goes through crusifiction his mother would be taken onboard of the mothership and live happily

Let me explain it to you son, not what you are saying and nothing of the kind bare with me.

Have you ever seen a ghost, a spirit a grey mist like form, a cloud not made of water vapor.

Have you ever heard of the many story's of the recently, often very recently deceased appearing as if they are solid being's to people, like one story that come's to mind of a young soldier who had been killed back in WW2 while he was hundred's if not thousand's of miles from home who was seen by several people walking back to his home, they assumed he was on leave or had come home but in fact he had just been shot dead in a battle, so there is a NORMAN human spirit appearing somewhere he must have really wanted to be, as if he was solid but it was not something that was permanent obviously or he would still be here to this day.


Now Jesus was Spirit of God, Essence of the spirit which MANIFESTED reality itself, so how powerful is he.

So a spirit chooses a special vessel, a perfect being to manifest itself through and takes on the full life cycle of a physical being, indeed he is physical but he is also spirit, read what Jesus said of God, God is a Spirit.

You know when he ascended with cloud's that was not the fluffy white water vapor sort it as the spiritual mist like power of God or his angel's and being spirit from God he of course Returned to God and being's Spirit of God he is of course God.

I believe the Virgin mother was lifted up by her son, God, her son, the Father, the Holy Spirit had protected his mother from corruption on this earth before he was conceived and born, his suffering on the cross was a sword in her heart as she had been told it would be and so she suffered as only a mother could, he made her the mother of the christian's "Behold your mother, Woman behold your son" and therefore WHY would god then allow his mother, the perfect prepared vessel whom was the ONLY being that could have been chosen by him as she was indeed sent for that very reason - look up her own miracle conception her parent's were old but devout people her mother well and truly past the age of child baring and no they did not have fertility treatment back then.

No he would have lifted his mother up of that I am absolutely certain, he GOD was her son as well as her God, what would you do if you love your mother and could spare her even more corruption in this world, so if you would do that for the one you love why would GOD not do so for the being he chose as his own Mother and then named the mother of those he brought into himself and freed from sin by his suffering and his infinitely precious and powerful blood, of course he took her up to heaven and guess what it is not just Catholic (Latin Orthodox), it is Greek Orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Syrian Orthodox (Syriac Orthodox not part of Constantine's unified church yet there belief and tradition's despite being fiercely independant are identical in most respect's to the catholic including the Ascension of the blessed virgin mary (Miriam)).

Of course it is that time of year so people who do not want to believe, do not believe and simply don't give too hoot's are out yet again to attack christian tradition and faith.

Wake up it is not just a religion it is the truth.

I believe the Virgin mother was lifted up by her son, God, her son, the Father, the Holy Spirit had protected his mother from corruption on this earth before he was conceived and born

Honestly, why do people believe things like this without a shred of evidence just because someone tells them?

Do you also believe that Zeus lives on Mt Olympus and throws firebolts at people?

a reply to: CB328

Honestly, why do people believe things like this without a shred of evidence just because someone tells them?

Do you also believe that Zeus lives on Mt Olympus and throws firebolts at people?

Lol Zeus, throwing firebolts at people... AaaaaHaaaHaaaHaHaHaHa!!!!! Don't be rediculous! I've never heard ANYthing more preposterous in my entire life! The utter and complete rubbish some people actually believe... Firebolts.... Pshhh! Everyone and his dog knows very well that Zeus lives on Mt Olympus and hurls THUNDERbolts at people! Thunderbolts. Not firebolts.

What is a firebolt anyway? Sounds like some fear based myth made up to control people. "Better bring a nice offering to the temple of Zeus, or he might become angry and toss a FIREBOLT up yer arse!" But a thunderbolt, well, that of course is simply something Zeus uses to punish the wicked... no big mystery there. Seems rather obvious. Go peddle your fear fables elsewhere! Away with ye, lizard demon!

Joseph got very suspicious of why his son looked African instead of Hebrew?

Its weird that she spontaneously conceived rather than just being given a baby. The angel was capable of delivering a creepy message but not capable of delivering an infant so as to avoid the rapey vibes?

Mary lived in a time and place that if you had sex out of marriage you were stoned to death .
So amazing how she hung around Joe and yet no way he was getting into her pants ?
lol what happened is she and joe were boy friend girl friend she came up preggress and tells him he thinks about it for a wile decides he loves her to much to let her be stoned so helps make up a story about how she magically got preggers .
Once the story was naccecpted they had no choice BUT to raise Jesus telling him he was a half god.
Sure are a lot of half gods in history Jesus was not the first .
Old zuse now he loved mortal women must have had 5 or 6 kids by them . all had magic powers just like Jesus to .
Will teh real son of a god please stand up .

My theory is that aliens put a modified embryo in her for whatever reason. I think they did it several times in history, and they would pick a woman who was infertile or a virgin to ensure that it was their embryo that got born.

a reply to: CB328
You are observing the phenomena of one myth leading to another (my first thread on ATS is about that).

Myth 4: God Is a Trinity

What is the origin of the myth?

“The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.

“The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325 [C.E.]. Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, ‘of one substance with the Father.’ . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.”—Encyclopædia Britannica (1970), Volume 6, page 386.

What does the Bible say?

“Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God’s right hand. ‘Look! I can see heaven thrown open,’ he said, ‘and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God.’”—Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

What did this vision reveal? Filled with God’s active force, Stephen saw Jesus “standing at God’s right hand.” Clearly, then, Jesus did not become God again after his resurrection to heaven but, rather, a distinct spiritual being. There is no mention of a third person next to God in this account. Despite attempts to find passages of Scripture to support the Trinity dogma, Dominican priest Marie-Émile Boismard wrote in his book À l’aube du christianisme—La naissance des dogmes (At the Dawn of Christianity—The Birth of Dogmas): “The statement that there are three persons in the one God . . . cannot be read anywhere in the New Testament.”

The dogma that Constantine championed was intended to put an end to dissensions within the fourth-century Church. However, it actually raised another issue: Was Mary, the woman who bore Jesus, “the Mother of God”?

Compare these Bible verses: Matthew 26:39; John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28; Colossians 1:15, 16

FACT:

The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention

Myth 5: Mary Is the Mother of God

What is the origin of the myth?

“Veneration of the mother of God received its impetus when . . . the pagan masses streamed into the church. . . . Their piety and religious consciousness [that of pagans converted to Christianity] had been formed for millennia through the cult of the ‘great mother’ goddess and the ‘divine virgin.’”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume 16, pages 326 and 327.

What does the Bible say?

“You are to conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you must name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High. . . . And so the child will be holy and will be called Son of God.”—Italics ours; Luke 1:31-35, The New Jerusalem Bible.

That passage of Scripture clearly states that Mary was the mother of the “Son of God,” not of God himself. Could she have carried within her the One whom ‘the heavens themselves cannot contain’? (1 Kings 8:27) She never made such a claim. It is the teaching about the Trinity that has sown confusion over the identity of Mary. By proclaiming her Theotokos (a Greek word meaning “God-bearer”), or “Mother of God,” the Council of Ephesus, in 431 C.E., set the stage for Mary worship. The city of Ephesus where this church council was held had for centuries been at the heart of idol worship celebrating the fertility goddess Artemis.

So it was that many aspects of the worship of the image of Artemis that “fell from heaven,” such as processions, were integrated into Mary worship. (Acts 19:35) Another practice that crept into Christian teaching was the use of images of Mary and others in worship.

Compare these Bible verses: Matthew 13:53-56; Mark 3:31-35; Luke 11:27, 28

FACT:

Mary was the mother of the Son of God, not of God himself. The Trinity myth gave birth to the worship of Mary as the Mother of God

Source: One Myth Leads to Another (click next button to see the myths)
Oh, might as well share the end of the complete article, I've come this far:

REJECT MYTHS, STICK TO THE TRUTH

What can we conclude from this brief review of myths that are still taught by many churches? These “tales [Greek, myʹthos] artfully spun” cannot rival the simple and comforting truths of the Bible.—2 Peter 1:16, The New English Bible.

Therefore, with an open mind, do not hesitate to compare with God’s Word—the source of truth—what you have been taught. (John 17:17) Then, this promise will prove true in your case: “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”—John 8:32.

originally posted by: CB328
... and they would pick a woman who was infertile or a virgin to ensure that it was their embryo that got born.

Was Mary always a virgin?

Matt. 13:53-56, JB: “When Jesus had finished these parables he left the district; and, coming to his home town, he taught the people in their synagogue in such a way that they were astonished and said, ‘Where did the man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers? This is the carpenter’s son, surely? Is not his mother the woman called Mary, and his brothers [Greek, a·del·phoiʹ] James and Joseph and Simon and Jude? His sisters [Greek, a·del·phaiʹ], too, are they not all here with us?’” (On the basis of this text, would you conclude that Jesus was Mary’s only child or that she had other sons as well as daughters?)

The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967, Vol. IX, p. 337) admits regarding the Greek words a·del·phoiʹ and a·del·phaiʹ, used at Matthew 13:55, 56, that these “have the meaning of full blood brother and sister in the Greek-speaking world of the Evangelist’s time and would naturally be taken by his Greek reader in this sense. Toward the end of the 4th century (c. 380) Helvidius in a work now lost pressed this fact in order to attribute to Mary other children besides Jesus so as to make her a model for mothers of larger families. St. Jerome, motivated by the Church’s traditional faith in Mary’s perpetual virginity, wrote a tract against Helvidius (A.D. 383) in which he developed an explanation . . . that is still in vogue among Catholic scholars.”

Mark 3:31-35, JB: “His mother and brothers now arrived and, standing outside, sent in a message asking for him. A crowd was sitting round him at the time the message was passed to him, ‘Your mother and brothers and sisters are outside asking for you’. He replied, ‘Who are my mother and my brothers?’ And looking round at those sitting in a circle about him, he said, ‘Here are my mother and my brothers. Anyone who does the will of God, that person is my brother and sister and mother.’” (Here a clear distinction is drawn between Jesus’ natural brothers and his spiritual brothers, his disciples. No one claims that the reference to Jesus’ mother means anything different from what it says. Is it consistent, then, to reason that his natural brothers were not that but were perhaps cousins? When what is meant is not brothers but relatives, a different Greek word [syg·ge·nonʹ] is used, as at Luke 21:16.)

Mary (Jesus’ Mother): Reasoning

a reply to: CB328

Was Mary herself immaculately conceived, free from original sin when her mother conceived her?

The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967, Vol. VII, pp. 378-381) acknowledges regarding the origin of the belief: “ . . . the Immaculate Conception is not taught explicitly in Scripture . . . The earliest Church Fathers regarded Mary as holy but not as absolutely sinless. . . . It is impossible to give a precise date when the belief was held as a matter of faith, but by the 8th or 9th century it seems to have been generally admitted. . . . [In 1854 Pope Pius IX defined the dogma] ‘which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin in the first instant of her Conception.’” This belief was confirmed by Vatican II (1962-1965).—The Documents of Vatican II (New York, 1966), edited by W. M. Abbott, S.J., p. 88.

The Bible itself says: “Well then, sin entered the world through one man [Adam], and through sin death, and thus death has spread through the whole human race because everyone has sinned.” (Rom. 5:12, JB; italics added.) Does that include Mary? The Bible reports that in accord with the requirement of the Mosaic Law, 40 days after Jesus’ birth Mary offered at the temple in Jerusalem a sin offering for purification from uncleanness. She, too, had inherited sin and imperfection from Adam.—Luke 2:22-24; Lev. 12:1-8.

Did Mary ascend to heaven with her body of flesh?

In commenting on the proclamation made by Pope Pius XII in 1950 that made this dogma an official article of Catholic faith, the New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967, Vol. I, p. 972) states: “There is no explicit reference to the Assumption in the Bible, yet the Pope insists in the decree of promulgation that the Scriptures are the ultimate foundation of this truth.”

The Bible itself says: “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God: and the perishable cannot inherit what lasts for ever.” (1 Cor. 15:50, JB) Jesus said that “God is spirit.” At Jesus’ resurrection he again became spirit, now “a life-giving spirit.” The angels are spirits. (John 4:24; 1 Cor. 15:45; Heb. 1:13, 14, JB) Where is the Scriptural basis for saying that anyone would attain to heavenly life in a body that requires the physical surroundings of the earth to sustain it? (See pages 334-336, under “Resurrection.”)
...
Was Mary specially honored in the first-century Christian congregation?

The apostle Peter makes no mention of her at all in his inspired writings. The apostle Paul did not use her name in his inspired letters but spoke of her only as “a woman.”—Gal. 4:4.

What example did Jesus himself set in referring to his mother?

John 2:3, 4, JB: “When they ran out of wine [at a wedding feast in Cana], since the wine provided for the wedding was all finished, the mother of Jesus said to him, ‘They have no wine’. Jesus said, ‘Woman, why turn to me [“what is that to me and to thee,” Dy]? My hour has not come yet.’” (When Jesus was a child he subjected himself to his mother and his adoptive father. But now that he was grown he kindly but firmly rejected Mary’s direction. She humbly accepted the correction.)

Luke 11:27, 28, JB: “Now as he [Jesus] was speaking, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said, ‘Happy the womb that bore you and the breasts you sucked!’ But he replied, ‘Still happier those who hear the word of God and keep it!’” (This would certainly have been a fine opportunity for Jesus to pay special honor to his mother if that had been appropriate. He did not do so.)

What are the historical origins of the adoration of Mary?

Says Catholic priest Andrew Greeley: “Mary is one of the most powerful religious symbols in the history of the Western world . . . The Mary symbol links Christianity directly to the ancient religions of mother goddesses.”—The Making of the Popes 1978 (U.S.A., 1979), p. 227.

Of interest is the location where the teaching that Mary is the Mother of God was confirmed. “The Council of Ephesus assembled in the basilica of the Theotokos in 431. There, if anywhere, in the city so notorious for its devotion to Artemis, or Diana as the Romans called her, where her image was said to have fallen from heaven, under the shadow of the great temple dedicated to the Magna Mater since 330 B.C. and containing, according to tradition, a temporary residence of Mary, the title ‘God-bearer’ hardly could fail to be upheld.”—The Cult of the Mother-Goddess (New York, 1959), E. O. James, p. 207.

Source:Mary (Jesus’ Mother): Reasoning

originally posted by: Raggedyman
It's not uncommon for the Catholic Church to lie and cover things up
That's why Protestant movement came to be, though we have issues as well

The sonic in me makes me think, not talking about Protestants is away to save members from finding out the truth

LOL and what's there to find out? That the protestants still haven't found the real meaning of what being a protestant is hence the protestant movement has been split into hundreds of different denominations? And each protestant church believes to be better than the others, besides having a raging hate about Catholics. There are so many protestant branches one can't even remember them all, Anglicans, Pentecostals, Methodists, Evangelicals, Lutherans, Mormons, Jehova witnesses etc etc.

In the meantime the Catholic church is just that, one Catholic church.

But, as an agnostic/atheist, to me they are all the same: churches built on one fictional character that has yet to be proven historically real.

originally posted by: CB328
Anyways, this is an obvious lie, one way or the other, and proves that Catholic teaching are bogus. E

Of course it's bogus and if you read the NT and how the 4 gospels don't match each other, you'll realize the whole story is bogus.

Besides Mary 'the virgin' we can also say Christmas is bogus, as what we really celebrate today is an ancient pagan tradition to celebrate the winter solstice.

Happy Yule!