Trump calls for F-18 run off against F-35

Just like to be the devils advocate at times. The reason is because, there is just a part of me that thinks the USAF is missing something in having one aircraft for nearly all missions.

Sure the future is unknown, but at the moment that is what 10 or 15 years down the road seems like.

a reply to: Fools

You mean like the F-4, or the F-16?

a reply to: Zaphod58

Off topic sort of . It keeps coming up that the f35 will work alongside the legacy fleet . Does that mean Australia keeps the f18 flying as long as they can . I only ask this as it wasnt that long ago we didnt have enough pilots for planes .

a reply to: hutch622

Just like with us, there will be an overlap while they get pilots up to speed, work out tactics, and get the aircraft operational. That usually takes a couple of years at least.

a reply to: Zaphod58

By June 1999 the three operational Hornet-equipped squadrons had only 40 pilots, which was less than the number of aircraft allocated to these units. The RAAF claimed that the squadrons were able to meet their readiness targets, however.[62] To overcome this shortfall, the RAAF gave its fast jet units a higher priority for aircrew, implemented measures to reduce separation rates, and recruited pilots from other countries. These reforms coincided with reduced demand for civil pilots following the 11 September attacks, and by late 2003 the RAAF's fast-jet units were at near full strength.

Quite scary really .

originally posted by: justwanttofly
The part of that article where they argue that the Super Hornet is better than the F-35 because it can fly with a targeting pod should tell you all you need to know about that stellar piece of writing.

Again its like like asking a Toyota prius to be a tank.

Its a joke. F-35 is a diffrent plane with a diffrent purpose. It cant be compared to a F-16 f-15 or 18.

a reply to: crazyewok

Exactly!

Which is why this whole idea that the 4th gen Hornet, while certainly a worthy enough aircraft, is in any way comparable to the 5th gen Lightning is a tad bit on the ludicrous side.

Though if it could do ludicrous speed, there might be something to it...

a reply to: seagull

I love reading these articles written by people that read blogs like War Is Boring and don't bother to do a lick of research, so make claims like "we've spent $1.6T on it so far".

a reply to: Zaphod58
It seam that there is a change in the Mr President Trump attitide since he meet The Lockheed woman, and Boeing since this day , no tweet about the F-35, in my opinion may he was not aware about the real F-35 capacity ( just my opinion).

I just watched this video:



Listening to the guys, I think it gives a couple of options that cross a few threads here.

In my opinion:

1. They say that the technology is not mature, its a step change but still on dial up speeds.

2. They say that 5th Gen can make 4th gen more lethal and survivable

So therefore, if the US forget 6th gen, re-open the raptor in its latest configuration of 5th gen comms similar to the F35 as mentioned in the video above, then also some form of improved F-18 and F-15, at a lower cost than this 6th Gen, it would still be a great force mix.

If you go 6th Gen, then what, you run 5th and 4th gen? I would say listening to this video, 4th Generation are still highly capable with 5th Gen input and still nothing comes close.

From what the guys said, the aircraft ability is the last thing to do with 5th Gen, so if we look at Russia and China fielding a "5th Gen Stealth Fighter" that they copied off seeing a raptor, is not actually what a 5th Gen is anymore, its 20% stealth, 80% sensor, fusion and data sharing.

I have been saying here for years, just because they can copy its form, does not make them knowledgeable about its conops. If I wore David Beckham's boots I could not kick it like Beckham, and if I were David Beckham with my Chinese boots, I would still need 10 other people who were not Chinese on my wavelength to make me as successful as I am.

originally posted by: Forensick
I just watched this video:

Listening to the guys, I think it gives a couple of options that cross a few threads here.

In my opinion:

1. They say that the technology is not mature, its a step change but still on dial up speeds.

2. They say that 5th Gen can make 4th gen more lethal and survivable

So therefore, if the US forget 6th gen, re-open the raptor in its latest configuration of 5th gen comms similar to the F35 as mentioned in the video above, then also some form of improved F-18 and F-15, at a lower cost than this 6th Gen, it would still be a great force mix.

If you go 6th Gen, then what, you run 5th and 4th gen? I would say listening to this video, 4th Generation are still highly capable with 5th Gen input and still nothing comes close.

From what the guys said, the aircraft ability is the last thing to do with 5th Gen, so if we look at Russia and China fielding a "5th Gen Stealth Fighter" that they copied off seeing a raptor, is not actually what a 5th Gen is anymore, its 20% stealth, 80% sensor, fusion and data sharing.

I have been saying here for years, just because they can copy its form, does not make them knowledgeable about its conops. If I wore David Beckham's boots I could not kick it like Beckham, and if I were David Beckham with my Chinese boots, I would still need 10 other people who were not Chinese on my wavelength to make me as successful as I am.

You just cant slap new gear in old planes and call it a day. First you need to upgrade the power system to accommodate new gear(more weight less space). Next you need to install new cooling gear (more weight less space). After that you need to find space to actually mount new senors and antenna (more wight less space and different aerodynamics). Then you have to update the cockpit do display new information. Next you need testing for all the new systems and possibly air-frame tweaks to make it work/fit/fly. Then you need to train pilots if you can get all the above to work.

a reply to: Pyle

The average person doesn't realize how much a little change can affect an aircraft, let alone adding an entirely new sensor. That F-15 that spun in over the UK was because of paint buildup under one side of the radome cap.

Lockheed isn't quite going to get the price down to where they wanted, but their CEO has said that they are close to a deal that will bring the price down on the next 90 aircraft. They're aiming for $85M per aircraft by 2019 now, instead of $80M.

Having walked the Ft. Worth plant, I can tell you that the development of the F-35 has greatly helped the ability to produce the next jet. In the process of developing the F-35, LM had to figure out new ways to manufacture. I would equate it to the space program, where good ideas and stretch goals were only achieved due to a lot of crazy new ideas on how to produce things.

I mean, they had to tear of up the floor, to some deep depth, in order to produce some parts accurately enough, thousands of times. The exterior coating booths are amazing.

The produceability of the F-35 compared to the Raptor is night and day. The Raptor line was like a Ferrari line. Great technicians working on hand-crafting those aircraft. The F-35 line is like building the T1000. Fast, accurate, advanced.

Comparing it to the Hornet or the Raptor is like comparing the 65 Mustang to today's Mustang. They are just that different. And that says nothing about the computing/processing power and number of sensors being fused. I don't know that it'll ever be a great dogfighter, but it wasn't designed to be.

If Trump wants to lower taxes he may try to cut spending too. The biggest places to do that include defense spending. I see this as a maneuver by Trump to assert himself. He may be wrong about the specific program he's attacking, but it will put everyone on edge anyway.

Googled government spending to produce what you see below.

In 2015, $3.7 trillion was spent. That's 21% GDP..
25% - Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, and marketplace subsidies
24% - Social Securiy
16% - National/international Defense/security
10% - Safety Net programs
8% - Benefits for federal retirees and veterans
6% -Interest on debt
3% - Education
3% - Other
2% - Transportation
2% - Science/medical research
1% - Non-security international