The Aerotoxic Syndrome coverup

originally posted by: Guyfriday
a reply to: Zaphod58

Doesn't Legionnaires Disease come from a mold that looks and feels oily? I wonder if there's more to this then just engine oil bleed. Something like mold in the air system, or do those systems get cleaned regularly?

No Legionnaires' disease is caused by a bacteria. It is typically found in large buildings with poorly maintained HVAC systems, cruise ships, water tanks etc. The presence of say mold (which has a lot of issues in and of itself) may be indicative of a poorly maintained system, thus leading to conditions that favor the bacteria etc. Since it is spread via an airborne route It is theoretically possible to spread in the pressurization and HVAC system of an aircraft, but based on my limited understanding of aircraft systems, its much drier (most bacteria dislike dry conditions) and do not use the large cooling towers associated with conventional systems. That being said the 787 with its higher humidity due to its composite structure may need to be looked at down the road in terms of infectious disease and its spread.

a reply to: FredT

Thanks for clarifying that. Though it does look like its a possibility, or rather a variant bacteria that could be an issue here.

a reply to: Guyfriday

In many cases, the most likely culprit is a bleed air seal. It requires a certain amount of pressure to get a good seal. If it doesn't get that seal, it allows burned fuel and oil, both of which are godawful for toxins, into the cabin air system.

The problem is that in almost every case where it's that particular seal, when they ground check the aircraft, it gets a good seal, and the problem is signed off as CND and it gets returned to service.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Guyfriday

In many cases, the most likely culprit is a bleed air seal. It requires a certain amount of pressure to get a good seal. If it doesn't get that seal, it allows burned fuel and oil, both of which are godawful for toxins, into the cabin air system.

The problem is that in almost every case where it's that particular seal, when they ground check the aircraft, it gets a good seal, and the problem is signed off as CND and it gets returned to service.

Is there anyway of testing the seals on the ground that would replicate them in the air.?

a reply to: Guyfriday

An engine run with the environmental system running on the ground is the only way I know to test it. Unless there's an obvious defect in the seal, like a cut, or it's bent, there's no way to check it that will give you an idea if it will leak in flight that I know of.

Seven American Airlines flight attendants requested to be taken to the hospital after a flight on Monday night. It was the third fume event on the same aircraft in six weeks.

www.travelpulse.com...

That's terrible. I had oil in my ECS once. and it was horrible. My eyes were burning and watering and they hurt. I can't imagine how bad that must be in a CommAir jet, when you can't open the window/raise the canopy. Wonder if the cockpit can use O2 masks if detected?

And I wonder if you can accurately test the seals in a altitude chamber, like Arnold Engineering? Wonder if the RAM air is what makes the seal different in flight or the pressure diff.

a reply to: cosmania

It may not help. On the flight in the OP they still had highly elevated rates of toxins registering after two hours on oxygen.

While some of this reads as almost an ad, it also has some informative parts, such as how it affects your body.

www.greenmedinfo.com...

An inquest into the death of British Airways copilot Richard Westgate has heard that he suffered from a nervous system condition. Westgate died in 2012 of a pentobarbital overdose, but there were no indications it was intentional.

It was determined that he was suffering neuritis, which caused his symptoms. Aerotoxic Syndrome wouldn't have directly caused that, but they couldn't rule out an autoimmune response caused by organophosphate poisoning.

This was rather interesting though:

At the start of the week-long inquest, coroner Dr Simon Fox ruled that aerotoxic syndrome would not be treated as a factor in the death of Mr Westgate.

www.airlineboarding.net...

It's when they put the wrong oil,in the mix.....one has the phosphates not the other

The conclusion of the Heathrow incident turnaround after an hour

a reply to: GBP/JPY

It's caused by engine exhaust getting into the cabin air through bad seals. Almost impossible to find on the ground.

Starr, Ten four...I'm a pilot, used to be.....I'm old

That was the results in Europe somewhere I think

editby]edit on 8-4-2017 by GBP/JPY because: (no reason given)