Arthur C. Clark--The Star

I love science fiction and recently I came across a short story by Clarke that I found very powerful. I wanted to share it here to see what thoughts people had, especially the more religious of you all. It's really pretty short and I think it's well worth a read.
alumni.kcl.ac.uk...

I'll also post a reading of it as well:




If you'd rather not read, the main point of the story as I see it is that God often punishes the innocent. In Clarke's story, a priest's faith is shaken when he finds an entire civilization that was destroyed by it's exploding sun. As far as he can tell, they were a peaceful and human-like race. The most arresting detail of all this is that the astronauts determine that the supernova that was seen over Bethlehem was the same one that killed this race. The narrator cannot comprehend how a supposedly loving God would do this. If you believe in an interventionist God I'm curious if you can, or if you have any thoughts in general.

a reply to: thesearchfortruth

For many years there have been Rumors about Clarke's sexual behavior, claim's that he is well known in some peodophile circles such as the American Boy lovers.

I sincerely hope it is not true but as someone whom read quite a few of his book's including the seminal "Song's of distant earth" which Mike Oldfield based an album on I now no longer read this guy's work's.

What is true is that he has a lot of link's in certain circles reaching up in the hirarchy's of power and influence and THEY do look after there own.

Here is something a quick search brought up, mind as some of the language and the manner it is presented is coarse to say the least but if accurate then I would certainly share the author's stance.
chrisspivey.org...

Wow. Well, first of all, thank you for sharing that powerful story. It's quite interesting. Reminds me of certain Bradbury stories from The Illustrated Man.

I do believe in God-and yes, a loving, interventionist God and I've had some prayers answered in very obvious ways. I have two points to make regarding this story.

1. Life on this plane of existance is transient. It will end for all of us one day. But I do believe that our souls live on in a different dimension. So there's that. I can hardly see the difference of one life being cut short and a whole civilization, if by "cut short" one knows that it continues on in a different level. Why some lives are taken so soon I have no answer for. But no-one will have all the answers, will they?

2. I actually see a lot of hope in this story-- something along the lines of death and rebirth but would need more time to develop this train of thought fully.

What do you think?

Thanks for posting I'll have a look another time. I'm an admirer. The rumours of him being a pedophile may or may not be true. If if it's true I only hope he never hurt anybody. We all have desires. It depends what we do, not what we think. And without knowing for sure, I can't fault him on only suspicions. Beyond that, all I know of him are his stories and his enthusiasm for exploring and understanding our universe--of which I share to a smaller degree. His style is not popular with everyone, but that's unavoidable I think.

a reply to: zosimov

I agree with pretty much everything you've said in one way or another, especially about death not being the end.

1. Life on this plane of existance is transient. It will end for all of us one day. But I do believe that our souls live on in a different dimension. So there's that. I can hardly see the difference of one life being cut short and a whole civilization, if by "cut short" one knows that it continues on in a different level. Why some lives are taken so soon I have no answer for. But no-one will have all the answers, will they?

I think the story mostly deals with those who interpret the bible literally, or at least those who take it's depiction of God at face value. That God described in the bible is at different points shown to be cruel and jealous, yet described as loving, and I think this was part of what Clarke was addressing.

I agree with you that no one will know all the answers. Although I do believe it's possible for people to become "enlightened" in one way or another, though I don't believe such people would be able to simply tell these answers to the unenlightened, as they must be experienced.

2. I actually see a lot of hope in this story-- something along the lines of death and rebirth but would need more time to develop this train of thought fully.

I'm curious as to where you see the rebirth part. It seems to me that there is only death in this case.

Also OP, Clarke once brought up the following story, when speculating about how we might live in the future:
archive.ncsa.illinois.edu - THE MACHINE STOPS by E.M. Forster (1909)...

This was regarding things like computer and telecommunications. I hope--if you havne't read already!--you might enjoy it in turn.

originally posted by: thesearchfortruth

I'm curious as to where you see the rebirth part. It seems to me that there is only death in this case.

Hey, so I was reading some really interesting theories lately by Robert Lanza and they really make sense to me. Biocentrism claims that death (also space/time as we understand it) really is a construct of the mind and that multi-verse would support evidence that souls (consciousness) migrate dimensions or universes in accordance to quantum theory upon "death" on this plane. Or something like that. I want to read his book to find out more Here's a link talking about his book:

www.robertlanza.com...

I think that the beautiful civilization in the story reemerged elsewhere the moment that sun burst, and that the lovely star guiding the wise men was a symbol of that rebirth (as well as ushering in one great hope here on earth- for me at least- which would multiply number of consciousness that have the knowledge that the soul never dies).

What you wrote here;

Although I do believe it's possible for people to become "enlightened" in one way or another, though I don't believe such people would be able to simply tell these answers to the unenlightened, as they must be experienced.

Is really interesting! I agree that we all have to experience different lessons and learn in our own ways, which is one of the reasons we're here.
Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I'm pretty tired here.

loved the episodes arthur c clark wrote for the sf books Perry rhodan ....
lots of it came tru after 1966......

a reply to: thesearchfortruth

Arhur C. Clarke, SCIENCE FICTION writer, and inventor of the Earth space satellites.........Sri Lanka was a great place for a man with his interests.

a reply to: FlatBastard

Absolutely correct, (Except the invention of the satellite that was a claim but not the truth, the German's were probably theorizing about them during the war and of course the Russian's would have disputed that claim, also there were science fiction author's with far greater imagination's such as Jules Verne long before he was born and of course all a satellite is really is an artificial moon so many astronomer's probably mused the thought for century's after they began to see the moon as another world.
Here is some more on why he liked that place with it's beach's, make's my skin crawl.
thecolemanexperience.wordpress.com...
www.exfamily.org...

Thanks for this, I really enjoyed it. Reminds of the Elder Scrolls universe, when the Dwemer attempted to elevate themselves to a higher plain, they all ended up vanishing, effectively ending the dwemer existence.

love Arhur C. Clarke. and most old Sci-Fi.
what happen to the film foundation trilogy?
5 books!

originally posted by: zosimov

originally posted by: thesearchfortruth

I'm curious as to where you see the rebirth part. It seems to me that there is only death in this case.

Hey, so I was reading some really interesting theories lately by Robert Lanza and they really make sense to me. Biocentrism claims that death (also space/time as we understand it) really is a construct of the mind and that multi-verse would support evidence that souls (consciousness) migrate dimensions or universes in accordance to quantum theory upon "death" on this plane. Or something like that. I want to read his book to find out more

Here's a link talking about his book:

www.robertlanza.com...

I think that the beautiful civilization in the story reemerged elsewhere the moment that sun burst, and that the lovely star guiding the wise men was a symbol of that rebirth (as well as ushering in one great hope here on earth- for me at least- which would multiply number of consciousness that have the knowledge that the soul never dies).

What you wrote here;

Although I do believe it's possible for people to become "enlightened" in one way or another, though I don't believe such people would be able to simply tell these answers to the unenlightened, as they must be experienced.

Is really interesting! I agree that we all have to experience different lessons and learn in our own ways, which is one of the reasons we're here.
Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I'm pretty tired here.

enlightenment is knowledge of purpose which is no more than action and reaction. Free will is introduced to expand on natural forces breeding creation.

The Star is (to belabour the obvious) fiction.

Arthur was a strong atheist with deep spiritual and theological interests. These can be seen at play in the story but its plot is simply that of a cosmic coincidence that destroys a Jesuit astronaut's faith. It's a great story -- I read it at least forty years ago but I can still remember the last line -- but it is not meant to be discussed as if it really happened.

In the world of The Star, God either does not exist, or is a force of evil. But the world of The Star exists only in a two-page science fiction story.

originally posted by: Astyanax
The Star is (to belabour the obvious) fiction.

Arthur was a strong atheist with deep spiritual and theological interests. These can be seen at play in the story but its plot is simply that of a cosmic coincidence that destroys a Jesuit astronaut's faith. It's a great story -- I read it at least forty years ago but I can still remember the last line -- but it is not meant to be discussed as if it really happened.

In the world of The Star, God either does not exist, or is a force of evil. But the world of The Star exists only in a two-page science fiction story.

god only exists asa force and Evol is embodied by the gaurdian of the only thing that is truly dangerous. The force is evil all problems are derived from attempts to stop that force. It is the only problem those who attempted to stop it define what is truly goodd. God doesn't create, free will does god is a killing machine.

a reply to: Astyanax

But the world of The Star exists only in a two-page science fiction story.

Does it? Obviously the story is fiction, and clark adds certain dramatic details (like the supernova shining over Bethlehem), but the complete extinction of a benevolent alien race/world is hardly an inconceivable concept. It's nearly happened on earth several times—our deadliest mass extinction killed something like 95% of earth life, and our own sun will die out eventually.

In the nearly 14 billion years that our universe has existed—at least in its current form—don't you think it's possible that an event like one described in "The Star" has occurred?

Even if not, one must admit that the Christian God slaughters the innocent or at least allows them to be killed in much the same manner that Clark describes. For example when he killed the first born child of every Egyptian, or when he saved only Noah and his family from the flood.

I agree that we've never seen anything like what's described in the story happen, but it's not as if this fictional story is the only example we have of God's willingness to destroy innocent life.

originally posted by: thesearchfortruth
a reply to: Astyanax

But the world of The Star exists only in a two-page science fiction story.

Does it? Obviously the story is fiction, and clark adds certain dramatic details (like the supernova shining over Bethlehem), but the complete extinction of a benevolent alien race/world is hardly an inconceivable concept. It's nearly happened on earth several times—our deadliest mass extinction killed something like 95% of earth life, and our own sun will die out eventually.

In the nearly 14 billion years that our universe has existed—at least in its current form—don't you think it's possible that an event like one described in "The Star" has occurred?

Even if not, one must admit that the Christian God slaughters the innocent or at least allows them to be killed in much the same manner that Clark describes. For example when he killed the first born child of every Egyptian, or when he saved only Noah and his family from the flood.

I agree that we've never seen anything like what's described in the story happen, but it's not as if this fictional story is the only example we have of God's willingness to destroy innocent life.

I have been allowed to do whatever I want because icab destroy innocent lives and remove the innocent people from the destruction before they get destroyed. The rest is history references mankind's mistakes Earth's mistakes are told only in fiction.

That's one of my lifelong questions:

Do bad things happen to bad people for a reason?

Or do things just happen..

In the case of the story you posted.. I do not agree that a civilization being annihilated is actually a bad for its inhabitants. I know it sound like a ridiculous statement.. but I feel the only things that are bad is suffering.

What are you asking. How to be at peace with hating God?


Come to my church, and you will learn. It all starts with being quarantined to protect Eden. And living inside Edens root system, a black hole, where everything is mixed with death, on an atomic level. A bizarro world ran by the computers of creation, not the Source code or the provider.

Simply put. Why in the world would you worship Satan? Simply because he's the most deceptive unit of your decontamination cells? (the nucleus is a mirror).

God did not follow man or the projective plane into the black hole he WARNED AGAINST (Not tempted with you sickos)

a reply to: LABTECH767

I have read many books written by Arthur C. Clarke ... and overall I have enjoyed almost all of his written works. I especially liked "The Songs of Distant Earth"

en.wikipedia.org...

I didn't know about the controversies about his sex life, but had I known that, I still would have enjoyed his books. If I had heard about this first, maybe I would not have read his books, and my life would be slightly less rich?

It must be kind of like when you enjoy the work and artistic ability of a Hollywood actor or actress, then they make some stupid political statement that denigrates from their art. But ... I still like these people for their acting. I guess I still like Clarke too, regardless of whatever transgressions he may have had in his personal life.