Keep Your Friends Close, But Enemies Closer: a Prediction

And this, my friends, is the logic underlying the Republican parties friendship with Israel.

I know many of you here hate Israel, hate Judaism, probably because you've drank the mythological kool-aid of an "eternal battle" between the warriors of light ("gnostics" or Aryans) vs. the warriors of darkness "(semites, but basically any normally developing human being who avoids a cripplingly amoral developmental context). I realize I cannot disabuse you of this fantasy - which I believe it is i.e. with no basis in reality beyond it serving as an effective pretext, or self-confabulation, useful to people a) with some material advantage they want to protect, and find a mystical-spiritual mythology suitable to their education level/needs, or b) people who feel like they're "winning" by identifying with the powerful. Notice, this normal animal propensity i.e. gaining the positive affection of a traumatizing other, happens in all creatures: it has no sign of being true besides being something that works in all creatures.

I'm sure many people subscribe to this fantasy - both Jews and their enemies - both subscribe to a mythological fiction that, for sane people who subscribe to the scientific method, is rather nightmarish, because, well, it really did seem like Human beings were making important progress in the sciences - onway to making a better world, yet, clearly, there remains a clique of people living in an epistemological dark-age, who still think this world is some sort of clay which they can arbitrarily act upon without consequences.

www.cnn.com...

Friedman is not just pro-Israel, but pro-many things that earlier American administrations were opposed to. Can you hear the trumpet - already being blown the trumpet of trump? It's not hard to imagine where this scenario will lead us.

Trumps policies are shameless pro-Israel, but to the point of exacerbating an already contentious context: not merely approving of Jewish building in the west bank, but ENCOURAGING IT, even to the point of moving the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

Is this good. Clearly, naive Jews and believers in Torah will be elated. Clear evidence of Gods miraculous redemption.

Or is this too quixotic an interpretation? Isn't it more likely that the Nietzschean power-brokers are playing into the Jewish fantasy? And the Islamic fantasy? And the Christian fantasy? Indeed, while the Obama administration sought to quell and control the unbridled imagination of religious fundamentalists, Trump seems eager to fan-the-flames, which he is already doing by installing an ambassador who will give the Jews all they want: want East Jerusalem? Take it. Want the temple mount? Take it.

Is it not obvious where this will lead? It doesn't take a political scientist to figure it out: Israel will quite deservedly be opposed by the world community, even though they're being cheered-on and enabled by the Trump administration, who will also probably be opposed. This then begs the question: what role will the UN play if no one acknowledges its presence? Just as the league of Nations lost its influence before the onset of the conditions that started WWII, the same thing is already occuring: America will cajole Israel into pursuing its messianic fantasies - which will then invite an aggressive Islamic backlash. The UN - having lost all its teeth - will lose its role as international conciliator, which may then force all the Muslim nations of the world into an alliance. What then? Where would Russia and China align? Russia, as any world observer knows, will side with the Muslims, which, ironically enough (given the support given to Trump by Russia) will pit them against the United States, who remain a "stalwart defender" of Israels right-to-exist.

So there you have it. Or is that it? Of course not. The first country to cry foul will likely be Iran - and so Iran, Russia and the Muslim world will form a bloc against Israel, the United States, and Great Britain. I can't imagine the EU wanting to get involved, given it'll have its own problems with Russia to the east.

China is a big question mark, having relationships with both Muslim countries, Iran, Russia, the United States as well as Israel.

In anycase, the Nietzschean elite, filled with their fantasies, apparently want to engineer the end-times, and so we see, at this early juncture, how that end-period is likely to work: Israel being given a license to pursue its eschatological fantasies - which, as any reasonable human being should recognize, will merely provoke a nasty response from the Islamic world.

Insanity, Chaos. This is what Trump has offered us.

Nobody cares about izrael

I do, I care about our shared existence on this planet earth, our home to birds rocks trees animals people. I dont care if you are a sparrow or falcon. I care and want peace on earth so badly that it is almost acceptable to reboot it all just to get a clean start.

a reply to: Astrocyte

Yet another thread that I can't stomach to read past the first
paragraph.Read my signature and you will know that I stand
by Israel.

a reply to: mamabeth

Ahhhh....so you have affect-regulation issues. As soon as you read something you don't like - you stop, like a car stopped by an online breaking-system - but unlike the driver of a car, aware of a computerized breaking system, you just go with-the-flow, uninterested in questioning how or why you believe what you do - or what reacting negatively means in ethological terms (but of course, Humans are angels, not animals!!)

Very, very dangerous - people like you who believe they know the way reality works, based upon nothing but causal affordances (meaning luck encounters with knowledge) - a happenstance introduction to biblical-stories, a belief that the world is irredeemably evil without the staying power of "yeshua hamoshiach" - and saying that in Hebrew - oh so much more mystical sounding, apparently convincing enough to get an intellect like Justin Bieber on your side!

No, my friend. You are precisely the crowd I am speaking about: naive, educated mainly in theological matters - and really just seeking others who think just like you, and, in not subjecting your own meaning-making to analysis (that would be far too philosophical/self-aware!) you just suck the kool-aid and insult others who do not drink the same drink - or at least seek to point out for you people why the juice is so appealing: its offers a way to relax the stresses, worries and fears you have.

No, honest people acknowledge that desire comes before perfect knowledge - which doesn't exist, yet you - people like you, are absolutely convinced - so long as you package it in mystical Hebrew, or mystical sanskrit, Arabic, or some other mystical script - and wallah, all of lifes problems are solved!

a reply to: Astrocyte

I have never hated Israel or Judaism. I deeply question the Israeli Government's attacks on Palestinian territory and relentless and unending annexation of land there. it is absolutely ridiculous. It knows no bounds and the US should tell them to STOP.

After they take over part of Palestinian land, they build a factory and 'let' Palestinians work there for low wages under high scrutiny, like 'Sodastream' which any normal person should boycott.

Israel is useful, militarily, for us to be able to have bases on, but otherwise, we GIVE then a TON of money (that they don't need) and don't say boo when they respond to rock throwing with rockets.

The Israeli government can take a long walk off a short * pier.

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: Astrocyte

Yet another thread that I can't stomach to read past the first
paragraph.Read my signature and you will know that I stand
by Israel.

I see gun registration=gun confiscation...NOT true.

I see "Don't divide Jerusalem" More than one group has a claim on the place.

and "president Trump" somehow works it's way into those things. Just bizarre.

Americans can keep pointing fingers at China but, this friendship enemy game is played by the white race.
Do remember when white people fight for each other ignoring other benevolent race taking over America it was colonialism war. Which in fact is the first true World War. Spain, French, British fighting all over the world.
The 2nd world war was cause after the occupation of China(Opium war, eight nation alliance). Guess what Austria Hungary is gone(WW1). The third World war was also the same exact thing. Pointing fingers at China again. Japan started attacking. This time Russia didn't play the game invading China(under Soviet Union). The so called modern warfare is WW4(which everyone says going to be WW3). Russia isn't playing "the enemy of my enemy is my friend anymore." The only nations playing that game is of the West and Middle East. Africa is out of the game soon same goes with the rest of Asia. No country trust White Americans anymore because they refuse to end the game.

a reply to: makemap

That really made little sense and less sense in regard to the OP.

a reply to: reldra

I have never hated Israel or Judaism. I deeply question the Israeli Government's attacks on Palestinian territory and relentless and unending annexation of land there. it is absolutely ridiculous. It knows no bounds and the US should tell them to STOP.

Well, you have your head screwed on straight. Israel's existence is understandable and justifiable given the traumatic history of the Jewish people. I only mentioned the "some people hate Judiaism/Israel", because this site seems crammed full of pseudo-intellect gnostics/mystics prone to process all things in terms of a "good vs. evil" dichotomy, ala Nietzschean Zoroastrianism, the ubermensch who puts himself in opposition to the "believer in God", and so, in the supermans complete narcissism, he puts himself in opposition to the needs of other people besides himself (and its usually a He - lets be real: Nietzsches sister hated his views, and nature made an example of Nietsche, the most famous proponent of a self-absorbed spirituality, by turning his mind into fluff) at the expense (or dissociation of) a little appreciated psychodynamic reality about Human beings: people who hold views opposite to or contradictory to our own views are experienced as a threat to our well-being.

In other words, other peoples contradictory views are experienced by the brain-mind as something needing to be "controlled", in the same way that an animal which detects a predator controls the predators knowledge by not-moving, hiding, or changing form (camouflage) - we Humans do the same thing, but instead of an external "thing" (an animal or predator), its an internal thing - a set of idea or notions; but the response is more or less the same, particularly in those types who self-identify as a "superman": its called getting angry, or becoming irritated - but living in such an intensely unsself-aware culture "scaffolds" tendencies in how human beings interpret information - to the point that the vast majority of us simply look to the left and right to see how others are reacting. Certainty - or at least from an evolutionary standpoint - is very much secured (or made effective) by how we experience trusted others in their meaning-making.

Fox News is a common-reference, and so becomes a "central organizing vector" for informational processes in minds that are dependent on fox news for orientation-to-the-world

This website, too, is a "central organizing vector" for people - and it too spews much nonsense that helps facilitate all sorts of noxious goals.

it knows no bounds and the US should tell them to STOP.

lol. Here's my sense of what's going on.

"Zionists"" are not a real thing, though I would pretty much agree that there is some sort of elitist tug-of-war going on.

I've read such disparate takes on it all, but my sense is this: it is not "Jewish", anymore than it is Muslim, or Christian or European. It is essentially, as it always has been, the "haves" vs. the "have not". The nobles of Europe of "haves" - and the Germans in particular, have a particularly vicious way of maintaining their "have" and seeking more and more of it.

Sabbatean Jews - haves of another type, are simply Jews that have reacted just as childishly as the nobles: they don't want to share, and also have a belief that they are the "elect" of the Jewish people.

We can go and implicate other antinomian groups, and much of it may be more easily explained by epigenetic-cultural-genetic terms, with the nobles, for instance, likely producing a neurological-sociopathy - a different way of "structuring a brain", by subjecting their children, and anyone who comes within their ranks, to the virulent - virus like - effects of their esteemed influence. Replication - contagion - or simple mimesis - is how people with similar affective issues i.e. egotism, warm up to evil worldviews, and then, as always, become imprisoned by those views, as Jacob Marley tells Ebenezer Scrooge, but of course people like Scrooge would stoop so low as to play with Demons and find some magical way to avoid death to one-up the universe.

This is all, in the end, simple sociological dynamics - cause, effect, cause, effect, moving forward through time. Since we as a society have done nothing to bring awareness to psychopaths with an occultic bent, the disease continues unabated. Just as cancer keeps growing worse and worse he long a person ignores the conditions that scaffolds its emergence, so too society: evil views (Nietzschean, or Ayn Rand for a less mystical bent) replicate only amongst people who find themselves similarly structured as the progenitor (Nietzsche); is this not what disease does in the body? Isn't disease, as scientists are now discovering, just a laymen description for convergent dysfunction? diseases are not simple - but they arise from a mismatch between body and environment; so too this evil satanism - which morons take pride in as if the claim "pride cometh before the fall" wasn't based on sound human wisdom - earned knowledge.

I guess that also fits into the general hubris of our day and age: a lack of respect for wisdom traditions.

The Israeli government can take a long walk off a short * pier.

Well they are a liberal democracy - an outpost of values that SHOULD be propogated elsewhere i.e. in the Muslim world. Science - or the importance of empiricism - is something sorely lacking in the Muslim world - and something, I think, which should be acknowledged as well when it comes to Israel.

Besides that, there is a lot of fundamentalists in Israel who will absolutely LOVE this new ambassador, such as Caroline Glick of the Jerusalem post, who has written a book called the "Israeli Solution" - a one state solution which offers Palestinian Arabs full citizenship, but insisting on a Jewish identity for the state, with protected status for minority groups.

My issue isn't so much Israel's capacity to be reasonable - but rather, the eschaotology, the biblical beliefs, which seem to motivate so much of the population, such that they will pursue policies that will only ATTRACT negative and extremism responses from a world and culture that is entirely susceptible to responding to an Israel one-state solution with an unimaginable vitriol. Is it deserved? Well, like others, Israel is one Jewish state, whereas Arab states exist all around Palestine, so why no go there? This argument - while understandable - becomes wishful and thus, asinine, when a person fails to appreciate why such a worldview is difficult to metabolize if you're from the Islamic world. Thus - a rational realist with hopes of creating a better world has no choice but to deal with the other parties weaknesses: if they live in an insane culture prone to over-zealous chauvinistic responses, you provoke them at your own peril. The Jews have a good word for this: chutzpah.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: makemap

That really made little sense and less sense in regard to the OP.

Those who don't read history will repeat. Have fun storming the frontline of the battlefield with Nuclear bombs.
Middle Easterns are not very well educated in world history. That is why it is a mess there. Freaking Duterte on the hand is trying to stop # from happening in the Pacific again.

I can keep repeating the same thing and you won't understand until you back track through history. We are suppose to be in space by now.

a reply to: Astrocyte

After being on this planet for nearly 62 years,I know garbage when I see or
smell it!

a reply to: mamabeth

Ah, ok.

I always learn. Or try to learn. Do you know what you taught me - or have contributed to my knowledge base?

That statements such as this "After being on this planet for nearly 62 years,I know garbage when I see or smell it!", with mentioning your age (62), and then a cliche phraseology "garbage...when I see or smell it", it gives you the sense of having said something meaningful and important. You're old - 62 - and therefore "wise"; and the cliche "when i see or smell it", just derives from past experiences in which you or someone you observed effectively mollified another persons through this sort of language. The exclamation point definitely adds for effect. I can almost hear you sneering!

You know, there are monkeys in Japan that also learn through mimesis: one day, one monkey washed off his dirty potato at the shores of a lake. The next day, other monkeys began to copy it. We learn in the same way - just more complex - and how complex we must be, when words and phrases are recruited, but again, how simple and just like monkeys - that we select things according to the same principle: is it good or is it bad?

At the end of the day, we speak for ourselves. These words are not meant for me - otherwise there would be some sort of dialogical effort on your part (which I may have closed by taking such a clinical approach to your writing, but again, I too speak for myself). There are others, of course, you hope to impress, and I'd imagine people as ignorantly related to what affects them will be just as affected as you are.

a reply to: Astrocyte

And yet again I can't get past the second paragraph.That was a good one
comparing me to a monkey.My ancestors didn't swing from trees or peel
bananas with their feet.Since I am an old woman and it is getting near my
bedtime,I bid you a good night.

a reply to: antar

You want "peace" so badly that you're almost ok with annihilating all life to get it? Uhhh ok...

a reply to: Astrocyte

And this, my friends, is the logic underlying the Republican parties friendship with Israel.

Not exactly. The Americans have been proselytized and propagandized to view the so-called Jewish state of Israel as a wonderful thing since the 6-day war of 1967. That's 49 years of favorable press from both major political parties and media. That's why Israel has a 70% favorable rating in the U.S.

The Dispensationalist Evangelical wing of the Republican Party loves the heck out of Israel. They are necessary for and play a major role in the great eschaton in their schemes. The Palestinians, eh, not necessary at all. In fact, they are a hindrance to the grand plan.

Jason Greenblatt and David M. Friedman (yeah, Trump's pick for ambassador) put their stamp of approval on the -ben_1468872234.pdf] RNC Platform positions on Israel.

Beyond our mutual strategic interests, Israel is likewise an exceptional country ... support for Israel is an expression of Americanism, and it is the responsibility of our government to advance policies that reflect Americans’ strong desire for a relationship with no daylight between America and Israel. We recognize Jerusalem as the eternal and indivisible capital of the Jewish state and call for the American embassy to be moved there in fulfillment of U.S. law.
...
We reject the false notion that Israel is an occupier and specifically recognize that the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions Movement (BDS) is anti-Semitic in nature and seeks to destroy Israel.

These are radical and dangerous positions, which I reject completely. Americanism existed centuries before there was a modern state of Israel. If anything, 17th, 18th, and 19th Century Americanism, as far as Christianity goes, involved the expansion of European culture across the North American continent as a New Israel, in a new Promised Land. Christian Zionism is a 20th Century innovation.

There is a lot of daylight between America and Israel. Citizenship in U.S. is based on birth in U.S. territory, not identity politics. No tests of religion or parenthood identity are used for purposes of naturalization in the U.S. The U.S. has recognized borders.

Jerusalem is not eternal, neither is it undivided, and neither is it the capital of the so-called Jewish State of Israel.

Israel is an occupying power, of territory not its own.

BDS is in regards to Israeli businesses based in occupied Palestinian territories.

See also: How the Republican and Democratic Platforms Differ on Israel Contrasting platform language about BDS, Palestinian statehood, and ‘occupation’ presents a picture of two parties drifting apart on matters relating to the Jewish state.
By Armin Rosen, July 14, 2016.

I agree with your conclusions at the end.


If the link doesn't work for RNC Platform, it's because the url includes braces. Not my fault.
prod-cdn-static.gop.com...[1]-ben_1468872234.pdf

For Jewish American response see:
Not a Jew? J Street president responds: Jeremy Ben-Ami on Trump's far right pick for Ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, who says Ben-Ami is not really Jewish. Duration: 4:08

a reply to: pthena

Not exactly. The Americans have been proselytized and propagandized to view the so-called Jewish state of Israel as a wonderful thing since the 6-day war of 1967. That's 49 years of favorable press from both major political parties and media. That's why Israel has a 70% favorable rating in the U.S.

Yes, everything you write is true - from a sociological, historical perspective.

But when you factor in things like bohemian grove and the general Nietzchean ethos amongst the western elite, clearly their enchantment with Israel is less about bringing about the conventional Christian eschatology (i.e. as propounded by evangelicalism, for instance) - and sure as hell not the Jewish one - but clearly, they're interested in Israel, just not in any way that would make a fundamentalist - Christian or Jewish, very happy.

Perhaps, at root, there are competing visions: the Judeo-Christian vision harbingers an egalitarian socialism; whereas the "Aryan-Gnostic" vision has more of an anarcho-libertarian quality.

Corporatism and a free-market system - never mind pesky facts like feedback loops and laws of systems - is more naturally allied to an anarcho-libertarianism based in a culture of individualism. It's seems primed to produce a world similar to cloud-atlas.

On the other hand, the more simple vision of Christianity - Judaism - Buddhism, and even Islam (when you remove all the cumbersome constraints) is a culture that acknowledges and celebrates integration as a function of differentiation. For instance, self-expression and kindness and love for others are mutually compatible concepts - but are experienced as "oppressive" - in the words of the traumatized orphan turned prominent conservative critic Thomas Sowell, "liberalism is totalitarianism with a human face". The problem with Sowell - and with people who think like Sowell - is that his feeling relation, and therefore his philosophical orientation as an adult, is a funtion of early life neglect and trauma. This is the simple neurological and developmental reality - but a reality that people like Sowell, so deep in a putrid system that abhors communalism, cannot tolerate - and so in their stubborn and arrogant brashness, allow themselves to utter such viciously selfish things like "liberalism" i.e. a culture of care and support for Others, is "totalitarian" - and totalitarian, it should be pointed out, because it brings out unresolved traumatic affects i.e. shame - a normal feeling for a Human being that evolved during his early life without the care and nurture that is expected by our genetic systems.

Jerusalem is not eternal, neither is it undivided, and neither is it the capital of the so-called Jewish State of Israel.

It is a strange, seemingly hyperbolic claim. "Eternal" is to speak to the religious sensibility that ascribes total meaning and significance to one place on Earth.

Granted - Jerusalem is geographically situated to support such a claim (look at the globe, and its plausible to consider Jerusalem as somehow at the "center" of the Eurasian/african landmass), but its also chalk full of superstition.

But more than anything else, is the problem of identity politics. This constant habit of fundamentalists to "other" people - simply perpetuating a mythological narrative that derives from a much more isolated and isolating time period in Human history - is moronic.

A theoretical understanding is emerging - the sciences, philosophy, in terms of the science of ecology - that it is becoming less and less necessary to hold to these narratives, yet the narratives are difficult to budge.

If you were an elitist aristocrat, the relationship people have with such ancient narratives - the Jewish one, 3,000 years old, the Christian one, 2000 years old, and the Muslim one, about 1400 years old - would clearly be the ideal tool to carry our any global plans you may have - and judging by some recent books that have been written and posted online, the elimination of the Abrahamic and even the Karmic personality may be a chief goal - however ridiculous and nonsensical such an aim would be, I wonder whether something like that may be motivating Bannon, Trump, Putin, Dugin, etc.

It could be reduced to: the worship of the masculine. What else is the obelisk but a symbol of imperialism? And what kind of culture and spirituality would the practice of imperialism create, but one which seeks to metabolize the harsh evils that imperialism mandates?

These fools want perpetual, non-stop war-games - not even realizing that their games can't go on forever - the planet actually has a limit, to which we are already being given signs.

a reply to: pthena

My more general point can be summarized as follows:

I am not against Israel's right to exist, but I am against its defiance of what the other party's behavior is indicating.

The Jewish religion is well-known for prescribing ways of being: the whole Talmud is literally about teaching people how to think and act. For the most part, Judaism is a coherent set of moral values that support a healthy and robust social community, but it is, to a large extent, vulnerable to "otherizing" people who've victimized Jews in the past.

This is the frustration of Israel's existence: it aims to be a liberal democracy, but in the context of the middle east today, with all the troubles related to the incompatibilities between Islam and the modern-world, Israel's existence - and its defiant attitude towards middle eastern powers, seems likely to end is disaster.

How does it happen? Indignance. Jews, I think rightly, expect Arabs and Muslims to acknowledge their traumatic history, and so understand why Israel symbolizes for them a reason for their suffering - a place where they can relax with one another without the burden of being discriminated against.

However noble the self-reflection, and the expectation from others of "please understand what we've went through, and try to accommodate us in this little small corner of the middle east", the Islamic world is in no situation to tolerate such a symbolic violation of their honor. Yes - honor, pride, self-esteem, is likely to be a problem for a people that have experienced nothing but invasion and expropriation since Napolean entered Egypt in 1800's. Quite rightly have historians of the Islamist phenomena referenced these early years as the start of a cycle of trauma that has turned the Islamic world into what it is today - an internecine battle for control between secularists and fundamentalists - the fundamentalism itself arising as a function of a culture impuissance.

Seriously, do people not puff themselves up after they feel they've been insulted by another? Is it not also true that this behavior is ultimately to nobody's gain - inasmuch as it sets off a feedback loop between various groups trying to "one up" the chauvinistic nihilism of the other group - isn't this the basis of war - the ridiculous willingness of people to give up their lives for a ridiculous image of how they think others should see them?

There is a perverse logic to this. The image people care for is motivated into existence by not being recognized as equal by others. It implicitly affirms an intersubjective neediness even as it destroys the others it seeks to prove wrong through its supposed "heroic acts" of resistance.

a reply to: Astrocyte

I am not against Israel's right to exist, but I am against its defiance of what the other party's behavior is indicating.

Rights to exist are ever so negotiable. They are granted, recognized, or not.

"South Viet Nam has the right to exist as an independent state, with its capital in Saigon." Or not. Millions died over that. In the end, such rights disappeared when international recognition disappeared. Those rights have been delegitimized.

"The Republic of Rhodesia has the right to exist, with its capital in Salisbury." That right never received international support, even when presented as a Cold War holdout against Soviet reach to the West, in the way South Viet Nam was.

"Crimea has the right to be an independent state", or Ukrainian, or Russian, or whatever, I don't have much of a vested interest unless my government decides to make it so.

As far as "Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state", I don't think it matters what my opinion is to anybody but myself. I don't make such statements, even under the threat of being labeled "anti-Semitic".
--------------------

I experimented with theft when I was young; Secretly pocketing toys of neighbor children. Once I was old enough to go into stores, my experiments escalated to shoplifting. An associate of mine was once caught and charged with first degree felony burglary, based upon the assumption that he had pre-meditated entering the store to commit theft.

So I escalated to daylight burglary, for which I got caught. The height though, is high-handed, in your face, "what ya gonna do about it?" looting. The police were busy in the town with wide spread social breakdown of norms. I was bigger than the store owner. I walked right past him at the door with a can of baked beans in my hand. And I ate those beans, and no body stopped me.

I quit those experiments many decades ago. I prefer to live within norms of decent behavior. Unopposed looting, even if publicly supported, is still looting, regardless of which Club the looters belong to.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Almost was not the word I meant to get across in that moment of posting. Perhaps I see humanity as younger than you can imagine. An experiment that has caused so much damage to this planet that yes, a reboot is not out of the question at this point. Not saying that if my finger were on the button I would chose to push, because at the end of the day I still believe in the good and the intelligent.