If God is all powerful he cannot be all good quote...

Here's a line from the movie Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice:

"if God is all powerful,
he cannot be all good.
And if he's all good
then he cannot be all powerful."

I think the first statement is true but I'm not sure on the second. I think God is omnipotent but indifferent to what men do to each other in terms of good and evil. It seems to me good and evil is very subjective and different from each person's point of view.

I'm not sure on the second statement because again what we consider to be good and evil is constantly changing. I think God could be good and all powerful as long as we accept the idea God works in mysterious ways in terms of achieving good.

And of course, you can think the idea of God is just a construct of human imagination. But even so, you can still pretend that God exists just for the fun of thinking about his metaphysics.

a reply to: dfnj2015

What if God is just a cosmic entity that has great powers a la the Marvel Universe?

a reply to: starwarsisreal

God is where the midichlorians get their powers.

Here's the more from the script:

"The problem of you
on top of everything else.
You above all.
Ah.
'Cause that's what God is.
Horus. Apollo.
Jehovah. Kal-El.
Clark Joseph Kent.
See. What we call God depends
upon our tribe, Clark Jo.
Because God is tribal.
God takes sides.
No man in the sky intervened
when I was a boy
to deliver me from Daddy's fist
and abominations. Mm mm.
I've figured it out way back,
if God is all powerful,
he cannot be all good.
And if he's all good
then he cannot be all powerful.
And neither can you be.
They need to see
the fraud you are.
With their eyes.
The blood on your hands.
What have you done?
And tonight they will.
Yes. Because you, my friend,"

a reply to: dfnj2015

If God is all powerful, and he says he all good, that doesn't make sense? If he is all powerful, then he could make himself all good. That doesn't mean that everything else is all good. That just means he is.

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: dfnj2015

If God is all powerful, and he says he all good, that doesn't make sense? If he is all powerful, then he could make himself all good. That doesn't mean that everything else is all good. That just means he is.

What the fu(k are you talking about..?

originally posted by: BestinShow

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: dfnj2015

If God is all powerful, and he says he all good, that doesn't make sense? If he is all powerful, then he could make himself all good. That doesn't mean that everything else is all good. That just means he is.

What the fu(k are you talking about..?

Well I was commenting on this thread. Talking to the OP. You ask a question, and then say Stop. I can understand why you would be confused.

a reply to: dfnj2015

One "God paradox" I've heard is:

Could God create a boulder so heavy that God could not lift it?

Both answers suggest that God can't be omnipotent.

But I like to think that the cosmos, and the mind of God are somehow above and beyond our puny, Earthcentric paradoxes.

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: dfnj2015

If God is all powerful, and he says he all good, that doesn't make sense? If he is all powerful, then he could make himself all good. That doesn't mean that everything else is all good. That just means he is.

Well, if God were really all-powerful he would not be bounded by the laws of logic. He could be both good and evil at the same time.

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: dfnj2015

One "God paradox" I've heard is:

Could God create a boulder so heavy that God could not lift it?

Both answers suggest that God can't be omnipotent.

I like this version of the question better: Can God have a thought so complex that even she can't understand it?

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: dfnj2015

One "God paradox" I've heard is:

Could God create a boulder so heavy that God could not lift it?

Both answers suggest that God can't be omnipotent.

I like this version of the question better: Can God have a thought so complex that even she can't understand it?

I don't think God would participate in that endeavor.
The biggest question is why?

a reply to: dfnj2015

I think God is omnipotent but indifferent to what men do

Well that's quite obviously not what religions say about god(s). So if you're referring to the God of Abraham that's simply false. Are you coming from a deist viewpoint?

"And if he's all good
then he cannot be all powerful."

I suppose the idea here is that something all-powerful would have the capacity to be good, evil, everything in between. No limitation. Something that can only be good implies a limitation of being. Or something. *shrug*

The Epicurus quote is one to ponder:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

originally posted by: 3daysgone

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: dfnj2015

One "God paradox" I've heard is:

Could God create a boulder so heavy that God could not lift it?

Both answers suggest that God can't be omnipotent.

I like this version of the question better: Can God have a thought so complex that even she can't understand it?

I don't think God would participate in that endeavor. The biggest question is why?

There is a simple answer to the why question but most people choose not to accept it. We are the Universe's way of experiencing itself. Therefore, we exist so our infinite God can experience the thrill of having limitations by vicariously experiencing all our joys and frustrations. If time is infinite, then eventually God will experience every possibility of what it means to be human.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: dfnj2015

If God is all powerful, and he says he all good, that doesn't make sense? If he is all powerful, then he could make himself all good. That doesn't mean that everything else is all good. That just means he is.

Well, if God were really all-powerful he would not be bounded by the laws of logic. He could be both good and evil at the same time.

It could be that God interacts with our reality any way he chooses.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: 3daysgone

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: dfnj2015

One "God paradox" I've heard is:

Could God create a boulder so heavy that God could not lift it?

Both answers suggest that God can't be omnipotent.

I like this version of the question better: Can God have a thought so complex that even she can't understand it?

I don't think God would participate in that endeavor. The biggest question is why?

There is a simple answer to the why question but most people choose not to accept it. We are the Universe's way of experiencing itself. Therefore, we exist so our infinite God can experience the thrill of having limitations by vicariously experiencing all our joys and frustrations. If time is infinite, then eventually God will experience every possibility of what it means to be human.

I have thought of the Universe creating a natural observing entity. I had not thought of the rest. That is very interesting. It reminds me of the egg.

Maybe He is all good but not all powerful...

I mean, if there is a 'God' why do people assume He must be all powerful?

Maybe setting off 'the big bang' (creating creation) took most of His 'strength' -

- so He can answer some prayers (I know some of mine have been), but He can't give everybody everything.

Maybe He desperately wants to miraculously 'fix' everything that's wrong on this planet and 'heal' every bit of suffering in this world but just doesn't have enough power...
...in which case, perhaps we might offer up some sympathy for Him -

- I mean, as a parent I can tell you; my heart breaks double every time my daughter's heart is even merely 'in danger' of getting broken...

...Can you imagine the amount of suffering if you would feel the pain of a whole world full of your children's hearts breaking?

a reply to: lostgirl

The bible does state that he rested on the Sabbath. I always found that strange. Very nice. It would be a way for us to sympathize.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: dfnj2015

I think God is omnipotent but indifferent to what men do

Well that's quite obviously not what religions say about god(s). So if you're referring to the God of Abraham that's simply false. Are you coming from a deist viewpoint?

"And if he's all good
then he cannot be all powerful."

I suppose the idea here is that something all-powerful would have the capacity to be good, evil, everything in between. No limitation. Something that can only be good implies a limitation of being. Or something. *shrug*

The Epicurus quote is one to ponder:
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

I think if you willing to accept the necessary premises, the Abrahamic God is just as valid as any other.

I tend to lean towards a deist type interpretation for God. I also tend to lean towards a pantheistic type God.

en.wikipedia.org...

I think Epicurus last statement, "Then why call him God?" doesn't follow in the argument. An omnipotent God needs nothing from us which includes are acknowledgement.

As I said, it really seems to me that God is indifferent. The bombing of Dresden comes to mind. If God did not intervene to stop that one it kind forces you to make my conclusion. There seems to be no amount of evil God will not tolerate in order to preserve our free-will.

I think God can be indifferent, still be omnipotent, still be infinitely good, and still be all-loving. I think it comes down to good and evil being a subjective creation for each person. So in that ambiguity, we cannot come to an absolute judgment about the nature of God.

originally posted by: lostgirl
Maybe He is all good but not all powerful...

I mean, if there is a 'God' why do people assume He must be all powerful?

Maybe setting off 'the big bang' (creating creation) took most of His 'strength' -

- so He can answer some prayers (I know some of mine have been), but He can't give everybody everything.

Maybe He desperately wants to miraculously 'fix' everything that's wrong on this planet and 'heal' every bit of suffering in this world but just doesn't have enough power...
...in which case, perhaps we might offer up some sympathy for Him -

- I mean, as a parent I can tell you; my heart breaks double every time my daughter's heart is even merely 'in danger' of getting broken...

...Can you imagine the amount of suffering if you would feel the pain of a whole world full of your children's hearts breaking?

I love this post.

a reply to: lostgirl

I mean, if there is a 'God' why do people assume He must be all powerful?

Most religious people belong to Abrahamic religions. The religious predicates of god's nature (omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence) as espoused by those faiths are inferred by its scripture.

Why do people assume scripture represents the truth of god's nature I have no idea.

I don't think people should assume a creator god exists to begin with. Further believing we apes understand the desires and commandments of such a being (should one exist) is the height of our arrogance.

- so He can answer some prayers (I know some of mine have been), but He can't give everybody everything.

That's an interesting take on it. Usually the criticism to what you just said would invoke an argument against his omnibenevolence, but in the way you framed it, it's his omnipotence in question. Almost like he's a mage with limited amount of mana for prayer answering. It's not that he doesn't want to answer all prayers, he just doesn't have the power to. Although, you should ask yourself then, if he is all-good, were your prayers rightfully prioritized above others that are saying dying painfully of cancer?

a reply to: dfnj2015

I agree, we cannot understand the mind of God.