Christmas shoppers and children terrified by armed police on streets with machine guns

a reply to: CrazyK22
Living in no - gun countries all my life, this is really interesting! I have no experience with guns and as I never have been in America I never saw someone walking around with a gun.
BTW there was some meddled up citing (I hit the wrong button) - I did not tell that the police did something right or wrong in France.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: SlapMonkey
Since I have nothing of great monetary value in my home, nor do I have livestock or poultry, I see it as over kill to electrify my fence.

Think about this, though--a black rifle is not the same has figuratively "electrifying," say, a 9mm pistol that has the capacity of, say, 17 rounds per magazine. A proper analogy would be comparing maybe a 4-foot chain-link fence to a 6-foot wooden privacy fence. It just allows the LEO (or homeowner, in the analogy) a better deterrence factor and a slightly more difficult obstacle to overcome if a thief wanted to attempt something.

A 9mm semi-auto pistol can be (and is) just as deadly as a .223/5.56mm AR-platform rifle. The biggest differences between the two are presence (the rifle is less-concealed and looks scarier) and range at which the firearm is accurate and lethal. An additional bonus is that the rifle has a better capability to hold more rounds per magazine (in the picture in the OP, it appears the one on the right has a 20-round magazine whereas the one of the left has a 30-rd mag). But, for the purposes of what the officers depicted in the OP (and most officers who carry an AR rifle), the rifle is only an advantage in accuracy and amount of rounds, as most ranges from which those rifles are fired, a 9mm would have been just as lethal.

How much protection do you think is required for those unprotected cityscapes and gun-free zones, like schools and movie theaters? Personally, I believe if people feel the need for militarized police for security of their cities, schools and movie theaters, than they a have a problem much bigger than they are willing to admit.

I don't necessarily see the need for such heavily armed security--my solution would be to lift the ban on firearms and other weapons and allow those of us well trained in the use of them and who have the ability to open or concealed-carry our weapons to do so on those grounds.

But, if the owner of the property or the state chooses to ban me from carrying personal protection, then they better compensate with appropriate security of their own, otherwise I will snub my nose at said laws or policies and do what I wish, because potential protection of myself, my family, or others supersedes some uneducated belief that a gun-free zone creates a safe space for all who are in it.

I would think the people would be better served if they cleaned up the area and removed those creating a need for a militarized police force. It is best to do it early while the numbers are smaller because the longer they wait, the more difficult it will be to remove and control the infestation.

Right, but the pesky thing is that, at least in the US, illegal searches and seizures of property are frowned upon by our constitution (and rightfully so), so unless someone is caught in the act of something illegal, said "infestation" must be allowed to fester until they either attempt to commit some atrocity, or they do commit some atrocity. If/when that time comes, I'd rather be personally armed than have to wait on the response time of local LEOs while some asshat decides that he has the right to take people's lives, ya know?

I agree with you that the area may need an increased police presence if the numbers of shoppers are greatly increased because of the holidays. I just don't understand why the police need to be outfitted in tactical military gear to deter shoplifters and pickpockets. Unless that is not why they are there, and not what they are really trying to deter.

Shoplifters and pickpockets are not for whom those officers have those weapons. They aren't there to administer justice to someone stealing a Furby at the end of a gun barrel--they are there in case someone tries to do something catastrophic to human lives. At least, that's what the inferred reason would be--I'm not one of their LEOs who were briefed on the reason for the weapons, so all of this is just educated conjecture.

a reply to: onehuman

Well that is always the problem when you give anyone a gun and train them up to use it and they do not get to use it, sometimes they do become very sensitive on the trigger and basically wish to have fun with it. As sick as that may sound, this is the mentality most of them have.

A police officer shoots as suspected threat and he is an instant hero.

a reply to: Lagomorphe

Wow! We're all impressed by how manly you are!

a reply to: AMNicks

I'm not seeing a whole lot of panic in the background of the pictures I've seen.

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

If you think a punk with a blade is going to scare a Geordie you've obviously never been to a match at St. James Park when Sunderland is visiting.

We've never needed cops with guns and we never will!

Here have ave a pint of Newcastle Brown and feel your jewels drop

a reply to: nonspecific

this year Christmas failed everywhere. humanity failed collectively. Aleppo is being bombed out- woman a children are being shot on the streets.
i also failed- we all failed. let´s please try to wake up somehow! "Christmas shoppers" can go xxxx off!!!!!!

a reply to: nonspecific

Keep living in that bubble. The real world is out there. USA liberals are the same way...

originally posted by: Kukri
a reply to: iTruthSeeker

If you think a punk with a blade is going to scare a Geordie you've obviously never been to a match at St. James Park when Sunderland is visiting.

We've never needed cops with guns and we never will!

Here have ave a pint of Newcastle Brown and feel your jewels drop

A bit like when that Scottish bloke punched a burning terrorist a few years ago.

originally posted by: staticfl
a reply to: nonspecific

Keep living in that bubble. The real world is out there. USA liberals are the same way...

I fully intend to as it is a lovely little bubble, I treat going into busy shopping locations full of idiotic morons running round spending plastic money on plastic crap for people they do not really like in the same way as others would treat going into enemy territory to rescue pow's.

Well planned, in and out with the minimal amount of fuss and then back to safety.

originally posted by: Udntknowjack
a reply to: Lagomorphe

Wow! We're all impressed by how manly you are!

Would you mind elaborating on your comment please so that we (or should I preferably say "some of us"?) here on this thread can understand what you mean?

First of all, if you don't mind me asking : Who are "we"?

Secondly : Why are you using the word manly... do you have an issue with men expressing their opinions (I could be a lady for all you know?)

Thank you for clarifying this if you have the ability to do so? and now may I suggest that we get back to an intelligent and mature conversation about the debate in question whilst at the same time trying to avoid personal intellectual erections with one liner responses for which (in my opinion, you seem to use on a regular basis.)

By the way : I have just checked your posting history and I sincerely wish you much much more positivity for the coming new year.

Take care and have a really nice day after waking up and reading my response to you...

Don't forget that dentists are available for people that grind their teeth too often.

Kindest respects

Lags

a reply to: nonspecific

that's actually rather wise!

Whether it's holiday shopping or not...

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: nonspecific

that's actually rather wise!

Whether it's holiday shopping or not...

Ouch...

Tell me about it...

the Mrs and I decided to go for a romantic stroll in the nearest city (Tours in the center of France) last Saturday night and visit the Christmas market with stalls down each side with only 4 metres between each stall...

Beautiful lights and lovely music with the magical yuletide smell of roasting chestnuts and hot wine on each corner...

BUT It was so packed out that we didn't get to see any of the stalls due to "human jams" so we escaped over a high barrier... (only to be stopped by a security guard who asked what we were doing before letting us on our way after seeing how flustered and fed up we were looking...)

I cannot count the amount of times my achilles tendon was massacred by childrens pushchairs and the amount of times we bumped into people standing in the middle blocking all pedestrian access... No joke that it took us roughly 10 minutes to walk 15 meters...

Talk about a terrorists paradise!

Urghhhh....

What was good to see were the armed police officers at the entrance and exit of the 2 km long Christmas market though...

Warmest respects

Lags

a reply to: Lagomorphe

Sounds like it would have been almost magical...except for all the people ruining it .

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: nonspecific

that's actually rather wise!

Whether it's holiday shopping or not...

Yep an all year round thing, it not entirely unavoidable but with online shopping and careful planning you can go weeks without going any further than a local shop or an edge of town retail park.

Better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.

a reply to: nonspecific

So. In light of the events in Berlin today it seems that these are pretty sensible precautions.

There was also a failed bomb attack by a 12 year old at the end of November.

Clearly there was some indication of these markets being a target.

originally posted by: cheesyleps
a reply to: nonspecific

So. In light of the events in Berlin today it seems that these are pretty sensible precautions.

There was also a failed bomb attack by a 12 year old at the end of November.

Clearly there was some indication of these markets being a target.

Yep, nothing stops a huge truck travveling at speed like a bullet.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: cheesyleps
a reply to: nonspecific

So. In light of the events in Berlin today it seems that these are pretty sensible precautions.

There was also a failed bomb attack by a 12 year old at the end of November.

Clearly there was some indication of these markets being a target.

Yep, nothing stops a huge truck travveling at speed like a bullet.

Put a round into the engine block and it'll stop it dead. Of course, you'd need armour piercing rounds which aren't any good for shooting at one guy in a crowd as they go right through.

a reply to: nonspecific

How about that bullet stopping the driver of that truck. Driver being dead, the truck perhaps with no living foot on the accelerator, slows down allowing people to get out of the way who might otherwise have been plowed into. Or, the truck, no longer being steered by a living driver veers away and does less damage.

There are, of course, no guarantees that someone isn't going to get hurt anyway, but you'd rather they do nothing? Because that certainly sounds like what you are saying.