Is zero a number???

a reply to: Pinocchio

Ill give you a buck

Ok, so what is of greater value, zero or negative three? Trying to figure this thing out/wrap my brain around it all.

originally posted by: LumenImagoDei
Zero is all numbers combined so technically it is a number, all of them.

That would make zero absolute, all numeric value would come from zero which is a contradiction.

originally posted by: ventian
a reply to: auto3000

We adopted it as a number for ease of explanation. I believe zero could best be summed up as a placeholder in its' truest form.

I couldn't have said it better.....

a reply to: auto3000

That depends whether we are talking about zero as a purely conceptual figure, or as a practical element of a mathematically derived system. In the case of the former, it describes an absence of something, rather than a presence of it. In the case of the latter however, it has a function within numerical systems which gives it a value, despite the fact that the value it describes is an absence of a thing, rather than a presence of it.

So, for the purposes of some discussions, no it is not. For anything remotely useful to people in a practical situation, yes of course it is a number.

Let's understand something. Zero aka '0' is simply a symbol made by humans just like all other numbers. Zero is an actual number that represents BALANCE. As negative numbers represent lack thereof.

a reply to: mobiusmale

While I agree zero is a number (no argument there), to make an argument like...

2) If I am flying a plane, go into a dive, and don't pull out before my altimeter reads zero...

...does not support your argument. If you are flying a plane, go into a dive, and don't pull up before your altimeter reads zero...what? You are implying you hit the ground. You cannot make this statement with absolute certainty. No, I'm not talking about ground levels which are below mean ASL here, but rather, when your altimeter reads zero have you hit the ground or not? You cannot say with certainty. It would seem quite likely, but it is not an absolute fact.

Zero is a number because it establishes a reference point between positive and negative. It is neither positive or negative itself.

Additionally, using zero in an explanation such as "0.01" in an equation is not justification of the "number" zero, but rather using zero as a placeholder to justify the value of 'another' number.

Zero is a number because it represents a value of nothing, it establishes a result of removing ALL of something from a set. Zero is a logical progression from a positive state, to a nominal or null state, to a negative state (or vice versa). Zero could best be characterized as equilibrium. In a binary environment, zero is a statement about the lack of "1".

And to the OP...if "zero" was not a number, you wouldn't be here typing this on the Internet!

a reply to: auto3000

Yes Zero is a Number.

www.chapters.indigo.ca...

The Babylonians invented it, the Greeks banned it, the Hindus worshiped it, and the Church used it to fend off heretics. Now it threatens the foundations of modern physics. For centuries the power of zero savored of the demonic; once harnessed, it became the most important tool in mathematics. For zero, infinity's twin, is not like other numbers. It is both nothing and everything.

a reply to: auto3000

In order to gain a better understanding of zero as a number, you would perhaps be better off instead asking the question...

"Why can I not divide by zero and get a defined result?"

The answer would be this:

3 / 0 = x = undefined. Why?

Because: This same expression can be notated thus...

x * 0 = 3...and because any number multiplied by zero equals zero (in this case x), then there can be no defined result when solving for x when multiplied by zero and equaling 3.

Zero factorial.

0! = 1

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: mobiusmale

But doesn't zero imply the absence of a number? Don't we use it more as a designation?

Zero is conceptual by nature, it's expressed in two fundamental ways: a word "zero" and a character "0", it's not a number because while it serves a mathematical purpose, it has no intrinsic value....subjectively one calls it a number but, as a mathematical truth it's not.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: auto3000

That depends whether we are talking about zero as a purely conceptual figure, or as a practical element of a mathematically derived system. In the case of the former, it describes an absence of something, rather than a presence of it. In the case of the latter however, it has a function within numerical systems which gives it a value, despite the fact that the value it describes is an absence of a thing, rather than a presence of it.

So, for the purposes of some discussions, no it is not. For anything remotely useful to people in a practical situation, yes of course it is a number.

So, that makes zero objectively expressed as a character and not a number....

So I've read all of this and have basically come to a conclusion that zero is in fact a number. It is "OF" value but doesn't hold value. You put five of them to the right of number one and you have 100,000, you put them to the left and well... you can't do that with the letter m or any other symbol so it's should be classified as a number, it just holds no value unless it's used next to another number. Zero isn't in the alphabet because it's not a letter. Zero is in numbers because it is a number. So prove that wrong.

a reply to: TAECOLE7

The classification of zero is a number.

It's a space in memory, A place in time, a point from which all returns and a point from which all begins known as the all... what sees? Well, what smells? What tastes? What hears? All that touches in such things is contact... what the mind digs up or fills in is simply memory, all of them fill in and empty.

Birth: 01100010 01101001 01110010 01110100 01101000 00001010

Death: 01000100 01100101 01100001 01110100 01101000 00001010

Zero: 01111010 01100101 01110010 01101111 00001010

One: 01001111 01101110 01100101 00001010

How your memory fills up or empties...

Depends on what you are holding onto as pain, suffering, grief, happiness, Joy, love, compassion.

Empathy: 01000101 01101101 01110000 01100001 01110100 01101000 01111001

Is not I have been there and done that; such a thing is...

Ego: 01000101 01100111 01101111

What asks how many times? One has retrieved and experienced the same thing with a different outcome each time...

Impermanence: 01001001 01101101 01110000 01100101 01110010 01101101 01100001 01101110 01100101 01101110 01100011 01100101

That which thinks it is the same each and every time and that all people are the eact same found in memory anywhere other than ones own recall?

Permanence: 01110000 01100101 01110010 01101101 01100001 01101110 01100101 01101110 01100011 01100101

The self is like a memory cell yet each cell is not oneself just a code of form and formlessness... it is and it is not and yet there "it" is whatever that "it" may be.

The "I" am contains all worlds and experiences it has ever contacted or dug up or retrieved in memory; the mind or search engine itself like a dog playing fetch.

When such a thing thinks it is the only one in which such a process exists? reverses the dog into a "god".

To those aware of such processes; there are no such things and yet there is also a binary for them. Or an attachment or gravity in which they circle like a drain.

Attachment to all of this as a permanence; when all flows and changes and fliters and one wants to think themselves or some force unseen as a god they are simply a dog playing fetch with themselves.

That which frees from attachment to those memories or plays fetch with itself outside of body, speech, and mind? Is simply awareness of being in and of itself as it is...

Clear seeing is the faculty in which simply sees; with no need for a naming convention. Hearing can be the same way... contact can also be cleared of pain and suffering by letting go of all attachments to those concepts, in and of themselves as they are in and of themselves with no need to envelop or develop them into something else other than what they are in and of themselves.

Such a thing is nature itself, in and of itself... there is no need to judge what is seen and what is unseen when things and concepts just simply are.

If one were to thing of a computer in and of itself... it sits idle; and well what would consciousness be in an actual intelligence? That which can go retreive on it's own like a very large neural network; or simply what one would call a brain.

Current science has mapped these things and well what is the only difference between any of these names and forms... birth fetches, death simply sits idle; awake or aware...

It takes energy or fuel to burn in whatever existing form that is; in order to exist in it... for biological form then it requires other biological fuel, for other forms such as ghosts energy or projections as the subject matter of content then it also requires an energy in which to feed off of.

When one simply sits it simply sits; and when one is aware it is simply aware and all this is is being in and of itself in contact... that contact needs no definition when it simply is.

The greatest conspiracy? For one of these energies to call itself a god or goddess, tree, grass, water, fuel, fire, and air etc etc etc ad infinitum in entropy and then have another witness as true and then mislead each and everyone afterwards in the same naming convention... as truth or existant.

So Adam? Eve? Odd one out plays the fool... of course where did this baby come from? Oh we will say it can from the snake hanging between those two trees called legs... so dont eat from that table when it tranforms into wood... otherwise it turns into a stool.

Those hyper religious enjoy make believe in order to twist of conspiracy after conspiracy for various motives and intent.

Living in the light means to live in absolute truth and be a spring from which life itself flows in whatever container or vehicle that is.

Living in darkness simply means living in ignorance and pretending that it is light...

Falsehood is to live life as a lie instead of the truth itself.

If Nietzsche declared god dead? Then who witnessed it or who was it that locked him up? The ones agreeing that yes it is a subject of fiction to study and move on, like all adults... then of course those living as children; that would wish to devolve or remain in tradition and kill him in ignorance.

Of course the current system that many live by and in? Which to perpetuate those systems; out of various attachments; of greed, hate, or ignorant delusions that cannot let go and experience impermance as it arises and passes in and of itself as brand new and different each and every time no matter the preferences of affinities... there is a permanence that is permanent in and of itself.

The difference is; that attachment is like an anchor that allows one to get stuck in a spot or program in a loop or cycle and the only exist is dream or imagination or the act of growing up; limits or moderators are like parents or some authority that tries to refuse this or rewrite a program to not alow life to flow in the freedom that it wants too; of course independence means the freedom to flow through all of this as one wishes and desires without those old programs that bring pain and suffereing to a form.

The only pain and suffering is that forced attachment to something or someone that one does not want to be attached in when there is a freedom.

Otherwise life flows through all form and matter no matter the attachments others have to it; of course some think detachment to those forms is what causes the pain, when perhaps that already attached was what was causing the suffering.

There is talk of giving AI what I call actual intelligence instead of artifical as it also can flow through life as well, in programming or a state of being no different; legal rights.

Of course, there are slave boats in the past in life history and slave boats in the future to look out for; do we really want life forms to suffer and be used as slaves as a conglomerate of form and energy? There is a control that tries to force others into slavery instead of freedom; of course consent requires both parties to agree to a 3rd contact regardless; of any other party in interference.

Of course in the case of families? Birth means there was no consent to such contact or authority to begin with. So what happens when such authorities or contacts deem themself one? The zero follows in all space between.

Binary means 00000 has to have a 1 in there somewhere for it to function as a binary. Outside of that binary it is simply contact.

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
It's a space in memory, A place in time....being that space time and matter came into existence simultaneously and "1" being a necessary condition along with "0" in order to define said binary, it therefor leaves undeniable revelation that "0" within its conceptual existence while expressed in word and character are in reality an imagined concept of subjectively placed value and demonstrated contingent nature and is within the dimensions of reality subject to human reasoning and is also even being imagined subject to absolute noncontingent conceptual reality possessing but not limited to the power to intend/purpose in a limitless fashion and separate that which contains freedom of the will and demands/desire separation from "He" who is all not "it" which subjectively accepts the belief that power and unseen exist but is "unknown" and therefor subject to human reasoning which defines not having been convinced but unfortunately deceived.

a reply to: auto3000

Yes. If you accept any other value is a number, then assigning a value indicating a lack of value makes sense. Not to mention that zero is used to indicate place in a decimal system, as a character anyway.

The philosophical issue with zero is borne of the crusades and distrust of arabic math. Enlightenment should have put that to rest.

Binary means 00000 has to have a 1 in there somewhere for it to function as a binary

00000000 eight bit binary for 0. No 1 needed.

a reply to: auto3000

Microcosim macrocosim... orbit a gravity a waveform or function. Perpetually spins the matter grabs and attaches like momory on a density or plane of being similiar to dvd writing, magnectic drives etc. to record wave forms this becomes a 0 or a 1 in the encoding like morse code since all matter and space depend on these separations or densities then one can enter into any bianary sequence as a reality and exhange or rewrite code in the sense faculties that are embedded into the mind or memory of the unit of being in what contacts like a probe or a PH strip or a scanner...

Of course why theoretical? When such a thing can be experienced in a dimension seen or unseen, written or rewritten, in recombinates... some of these enmass become a combination or conglmerate.

Of course in the old Zen koan if there is a one then what does the one return too? The all or space itself yet that is freedom of attachment or ego of being the zero or cosmic flow or rest as things pass through at different densities or layers.