'Star in a Jar' Fusion Reactor Works and Promises Infinite Energy

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: yuppa
this is old news. One of our nations weapons designers have a truck sized fusion reactor in the works. they just have to fin d a way to MAKE MONEY off of it.

That one's pretty straightforward.

Once you've got the thing to fuse with D-T, you're a monstrous step ahead. But then you have to deal with engineering the thing for energy production and holding together long enough to be useful commercially, which is another bag of snakes.

Unless you can do p-B11 fusion, in which case a lot of other issues deal with themselves. But that one's hugely more difficult.

If i recall the one i mention they still need a way to offload some of the plasma. SO yeah thats the other hang up. Plasma loading i think its called?

a reply to: JesusXst

Fingers crossed.

I saw this the other day. Pretty impressive, they have achieved getting over one barrior. Now they just have to figure a way to get the rest done without turning the earth into another sun.

When they have a reaction going producing energy, what would happen if a crazy terrorist decided to blow up the reactor? Being there are necessary elements in the air, would it spread out and fuse the air creating a great igniting of our atmosphere?

Rumor has it that it's already being implemented in the Samsung Note 8!

originally posted by: rickymouse
I saw this the other day. Pretty impressive, they have achieved getting over one barrior. Now they just have to figure a way to get the rest done without turning the earth into another sun.

When they have a reaction going producing energy, what would happen if a crazy terrorist decided to blow up the reactor? Being there are necessary elements in the air, would it spread out and fuse the air creating a great igniting of our atmosphere?

No.

Other than thermonuclear weapons, no white world fusion apparatus has ever managed to get enough fusion to happen to achieve breakeven. The least little problem and it all stops.

And there have been over 300 MT of aboveground thermonuclear weapons set off. So, no, a power plant accident won't do anything but release a few grams of tritium.

eta: The whole "igniting the atmosphere" thing came about from an offhand comment by Teller during the first nuclear weapons test. His speculation had to do with whether you could start Bethe cycle fusion in Earth's atmosphere from the hydrogen in water, nitrogen, and carbon from CO2. You can't. Even Sol isn't massive enough or dense enough to do Bethe cycle fusion.

a reply to: Bedlam

thermonuclear weapons ignite the air by fission and then they cause fusion to occur.. They seem to fizzle out over a period of time. Even a magnesium enriched or molybdenum enriched bomb creates a situation that ignites the air. Sparklers ignite the air, the reaction is from a building of molecules utilizing the air in the process. A big enough bomb using these things could start a chain reaction. That is the reason they limit the size on these weapons worldwide, nobody benefits if it destroys the whole planet. Russia and the USA and many other countries accept this.

But this article talks about a few power plants running the whole country, those are pretty big units. That is a lot of energy to be creating at a site. I think this is the same article I read, it could be a little different so it may not contain the same exact information.

It is well known in science that a fusion reaction can go wild, designing of bombs is done knowing the dangers. I am sure these people doing this research are very cautious about doing things right and the reaction will be contained. My last post addressed a terrorist and a bomb, that could cause a bipass of all their safety features and is a definite concern.

In conclusion, fusion of the air occurs in every single nuclear test to a small amount. The size of this is dependent on environmental elements present on the site of the explosion.

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: Bedlam

thermonuclear weapons ignite the air by fission and then they cause fusion to occur..

Not at all. They initiate fusion in a very picky assembly that's inside the bomb casing. The fusion secondary uses ablative compression to compress Li6D around a plutonium 'sparkplug' until the plutonium in the center fissions, providing both heat, pressure and neutron flux to convert the Li6D to deuterium and tritium, heat them sufficiently to cause fusion, and confine them long enough so that you get enough neutron flux out of it to be worth while. The neutrons from the fusion fission a U238 tamper in the bomb. So your common thermonuke is sort of fission-fission-fusion-fission. Although most people leave out the sparkplug's contribution.

They seem to fizzle out over a period of time. Even a magnesium enriched or molybdenum enriched bomb creates a situation that ignites the air. Sparklers ignite the air, the reaction is from a building of molecules utilizing the air in the process.

You're confusing chemical combustion with nuclear processes, not at all the same thing. And not what Teller and Bethe were discussing.

A big enough bomb using these things could start a chain reaction. That is the reason they limit the size on these weapons worldwide, nobody benefits if it destroys the whole planet. Russia and the USA and many other countries accept this.

Again, not at all. You can't initiate Bethe cycle fusion on earth.

It is well known in science that a fusion reaction can go wild, designing of bombs is done knowing the dangers.

Citation needed. In fact, it's hellishly difficult to get even a thermonuke to go. Because it requires a lot of heat and time. Heat wants to radiate away as the fourth power of the temperature difference. So what happens is, it goes out immediately unless you're very clever in your design.

I am sure these people doing this research are very cautious about doing things right and the reaction will be contained. My last post addressed a terrorist and a bomb, that could cause a bipass of all their safety features and is a definite concern.

Releasing some hot but non-fusing tritium and deuterium. You'd have some burned workers.

In conclusion, fusion of the air occurs in every single nuclear test to a small amount. The size of this is dependent on environmental elements present on the site of the explosion.

No, no it doesn't.

originally posted by: JesusXst

originally posted by: jellyrev
a reply to: JesusXst

without FTL that might be pointless anyways

fluid taunting lifeforce?

FTL=Faster than Light

Fusion if it gets energy cheap enough to power some very powerful supercomputers and divert other energy mining labor and capital into other fields.

a reply to: Bedlam

You are right, the reaction in the air is a chemical reaction. The blast acts as a catalyst. It has been so long since I studied that in college, I had mixed things up a bit in my mind. That was forty years ago that I read many books on the subject, being obsessed with how it worked.

a reply to: JesusXst

So the plasma is being guided by magnets and enormous amount of energy is needed to avoid it touching any wall, well i hope the money is well spent!

What i learnt in life, playing with fire is a sure way to get burnt !

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: JesusXst

Fingers crossed.

I can only hope this isn't a Tesla moment, being tried sometime in the future by a JP Morgan takeaway.

originally posted by: jellyrev

originally posted by: JesusXst

originally posted by: jellyrev
a reply to: JesusXst

without FTL that might be pointless anyways

fluid taunting lifeforce?

FTL=Faster than Light

Fusion if it gets energy cheap enough to power some very powerful supercomputers and divert other energy mining labor and capital into other fields.

I knew that , really.

Now imagine that energy being placed inside a giant pyramid so that the energy streams out the top of it, linked to more pyramids of it's velocity and power.

That's a thought right there eh.

I believe Lockheed-Martin has already solved fusion power and has it working. Likely just for military purposes for now.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
I believe Lockheed-Martin has already solved fusion power and has it working. Likely just for military purposes for now.

Well IF they solved the plasma build up issue.

a reply to: yuppa

IF there even is a problem. It's unlikely it will be public when it's first created.

I wish reporters would stop saying, "Star in a jar"... my feeling about it. Anyway, enough b1tching...

W7-A was a stepping stone towards the W7-X and it did produce energy but not more than was put into it.

There are two items that fusion reactors have to reach:

1 - Getting more energy out than put in
2 - Ignition. That is when the plasma becomes hot enough to sustain more fuel being added to the plasma to keep the nuclear fusion reaction going (measured, it is called "neutron flux" which is always a fun thing to say and confuse people!)

Wendelstein 7-X will study plasma, conditions needed for ignition (plasma density and heat), and be a demonstration of theory. It will only demonstrate it can be done. It will not put energy out on the grid.

Last week's announcement shows that the calculations used to create the device means that it is possible and they are correct. It also shows that the device built does demonstrate the theory (fully optimized stellarator). Which means it can be done. There goal is a 30 minute run at ignition temperature and density.

Maxx Planck Institute, news - Magnetic field of Wendelstein 7-X exact to a hundred-thousandth.

Lockheed Martin Skunkworks' T-4 has produced its first plasma. They announced that during a continued funding announcement early this year. But there has not been regular updates like other fusion projects which makes naysayers say they are full of it.

W7-X, China's EAST fusion reactor, and ITER are all multiple countries/institutions working together because it benefits all of mankind. The world changes fundamentally when we achieve fusion. You will be "taxed" over your life span not by the kilowatt hour (like an actuary table). And that is just the starter.

Interesting post, I wasn't aware of the German W7 reactors.

I've been keeping my eye on NIF in Cali lasers.llnl.gov...

Don't get too excited though, NIF already missed their original deadline for ignition.
So it's hurry up and wait on these behemoths.

Fusion power is clean. It emits no greenhouse gases, and produces only helium and a neutron.

It is safe. There is no possibility for a runaway reaction, like a nuclear-fission “meltdown.” Rather, if there is any malfunction, the plasma cools, and the fusion reactions cease.
...
Chief among them is the fusion power that has been generated in the laboratory: Fusion power generation escalated from milliwatts for microseconds in the 1970s to 10 megawatts of fusion power (at the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory) and 16 megawatts for one second (at the Joint European Torus in England) in the 1990s.

Inverse.com, Dec. 6, 2016 - Fusion Energy Is Having its Watershed Moment.

These guys are from Princeton (the article writers). They do a full historic review of fusion. And explain the deuterium-tritium nuclear fusion process rather well (a nice colored graphic). They will shoot frozen deuterium into the plasma at ITER so it dives to the middle instead of staying on top or the outside. They can fire in a frozen helium pellet to kill the fusion process and immediately drop the heat. The plasma is hot but not super dense which is why the process cannot runaway.

If somebody did blow up a fusion reactor nothing would really happen except tritium being released into the air. The atoms are very reactive and stick to everything. Again, since the densities are so low (it is a gas) the reaction fizzles out. To keep the reaction as clean as possible they put the whole reactor in a vacuum like that of deep space. Puncture the vacuum wall and the process again stops. Same things as breaking a fluorescent light bulb.

If you never knew about nuclear fusion or have questions, then this is a good article to read! And there is no math! I promise!

a reply to: JesusXst

Much better articles than the one you referenced:

www.popularmechanics.com...

Remarkable fidelity: phys.org...

This means the design has been proven. Now they can run the reactor for real once they get up enough courage. At that point, it will be proven to be significantly energy positive so commercial reactors can be designed and built.