Discussing Pitbull DNA: Are they REALLY Doomed to be Aggressive Beasts?

I have officially grown tired of hearing the same argument again and again. So many, it seems, are hell bent on marking this specific breed of dog as savage beasts. Today I had this discussion once more with a woman who, when I stated that I'd never heard of the insane remark on how pitbulls are known to be gentle one second and then eat your baby the next, simply replied with a scoff and "just google it, it's in their DNA."

So that's what I did.

Ratliff discusses recent research which shows that all dog breeds, from Great Danes to Dachshunds, share practically the same genetic makeup. According to Ratliff, the DNA of a pit bull is nearly similar to the DNA of a Yorkshire Terrier. DNA tests can identify some markers for certain breeds in mixed-breed dogs, but little else. 

The DNA of a Pit Bull




I believe that personal experience based opinions are far more important in these types of topics. This woman I talked to admitted she had never owned a pitbull herself yet still insisted that a pitbull is a savage animal. That I should never allow one near my 1 year old because I'd never know if it might snap and EAT her. Seriously, her words....

Well, there was a time when I was very hesitant in letting my older daughter around a pitbull. She's five now but at the time she was just over one. I'd never owned a pit, only heard of their aggression. But my best friend owned one and when we went to visit him I'd let her play with his dog and over time I realized that this dog was not aggressive at all. She would let my daughter pull at her ears, face, tail, clinging onto her hide, trying to ride her, the entire time smiling and enjoying the interaction. I trusted that dog more than most PEOPLE! Still to this day I have yet to meet an aggressive pitbull.

It never hurts to do research as this woman suggested I do.

And even those pit bulls bred to fight other animals were not prone to aggressiveness toward people. Dogs used for fighting needed to be routinely handled by people; therefore aggression toward people was not tolerated. Any dog that behaved aggressively toward a person was culled, or killed, to avoid passing on such an undesirable trait. 

Makes sense...

Research on pet dogs confirms that dog aggressive dogs are no more likely to direct aggression toward people than dogs that aren’t aggressive to other dogs.

I owned a hound dog a long time ago. I had personally helped raise that dog from a puppy into an adult and I would have sworn to anyone that he wouldn't harm a fly unless the fly was trying to harm me. But.... One day our female dog went into heat and he went berserk. Became extremely protective over her and bit my brother when he went to FEED them. Sadly, animal control was called and without hesitation they put multiple tranquilizer darts into him until he lost consciousness and eventually died. It was sad for me because i know it wasn't his fault. I place blame on his desire to claim territory over our female and even though he didn't draw blood or even leave marks on my brother, my mother wasn't taking any chances.

The factors that feed into the expression of behavior are so inextricably intertwined that it’s usually impossible to point to any one specific influence that accounts for a dog becoming aggressive. 

Because of the impact of experience, the pit bull specifically bred for generations to be aggressive may not fight with dogs and the Labrador retriever bred to be a service dog may be aggressive toward people.

Impact of experience....

Given the powerful impact of socialization, it’s no surprise that dogs that are chained outside and isolated from positive human interaction are more likely to bite people than dogs that are integrated into our homes. Unfortunately, pit bull type dogs that find themselves in these conditions may be at greater risk for developing aggressive behavior. But because these factors are ones that can be controlled by better educated owners, it is possible to reduce these risks, not just in pit bulls but in dogs of all breeds.

My Hound Dog HAD, in fact, been in the back yard with the female dog for awhile. Only interaction was when we went to feed them. So.... Makes sense.

All dogs, including pit bulls, are individuals. Treating them as such, providing them with the care, training and supervision they require, and judging them by their actions and not by their DNA or their physical appearance is the best way to ensure that dogs and people can continue to share safe and happy lives together.

ASPCA

I will defend a pitbull to anyone. I will never put blame on any dog attack on the dog itself but rather the owner.

I'd like to hear personal experience based opinions here. What do you think influences the aggressive behavior behind not just pitbulls but any dog? Do you really think their DNA has doomed them to forever be branded aggressive animals? I can't believe that.

a reply to: PageLC14

I will defend a pitbull to anyone. I will never put blame on any dog attack on the dog itself but rather the owner.

Same here. Any dog untrained can become vicious and depending, can become a nuisance. A purposefully trained guard dog is lethal on command and could present an obstacle for criminals, including police if they decide to break down doors, or gain illegal entry for whatever nefarious purpose.

Imo, they want pitbulls in general outlawed like they do private guns. All of which present a threat to their activity, legitimate or not.

Its a main stream media campaign to demonize effectively trained guard dogs the same way they demonize properly employed firearms.

Love pits. I owned one as a child. I also had a Rottweiler.

The problem is pitbulls and other bully breeds are far more likely to have an owner who didn't properly socialize the animal. Unfortunately, the breed attracts a lot of ghetto and redneck thugs seeking to compensate or show off. This is a fact.

As a bystander, you don't know if the pit's owner has properly trained and socialized the dog.

It is one thing to have a yorkie with a bad attitude. So they nip your big toe. Big deal. A working class or bully breed that decides it is having a bad day has much more dire consequences.

a reply to: PageLC14

I had a male and female both fixed. Very loving dogs. Great with my son other animals. Well one day I was out back mowing the lawn and I pet my male. The female apparently got Jealous and attacked him and they faught until I could squeeze one threw one door and shut it. Lock jaw made it hard, but yes she did go from loving to snap. After the fight and they calmed down they licked the blood off eachother like best friends. Do I think they'd ever harm a human. No way no how. My son rode on their backs could pull food away from them and they just lick him. I don't know the cause. They are 100-120 pound dogs.

a reply to: intrptr

Its a main stream media campaign to demonize effectively trained guard dogs the same way they demonize firearms.

You know, I was comparing this to the racial conflicts we have here. The stereotypes we've put on different races. All pits are aggressive like all white people are racist.

You're right on though. It's the MSM that's behind it.

a reply to: PageLC14

Thats useful conditioning, too. I made the gun connection because after all properly trained guard dogs are an obstacle for law enforcement, too.

And just like guns, they will first focus on one type but the eventual goal is to ultimately remove all of them from private citizens.

For their own protection, not yours.

Edit: I see you edited your post. Yah, media is responsible. Campaigns to keep us divided against one another are a primary problem.

Its working, too.

No, I don't. My sister had one, while my niece was little. She was the biggest sweetie! Let my niece do ANYTHING to her. She was just happy to be loved on.


A good friend had a mix breed dog, that bit a child. ENTIRELY the parents fault. She told them multiple times, to watch their child. He kept poking the dog, pulling ears, ect. The dog even got up and walked away, and the kid followed and continued his behavior. The dog didn't even bite down, but his fang caught the boys forehead and he had to have two stitches. While my friends husband went and got his gun, to shoot his own dog, the father of the boy had common sense and stopped it. He never bit another child in his long life, but they also stopped little ones from climbing on him.

I know there are aggressive dogs. I've met a few. But in my personal experiences, it is the humans that mess up, not the dog. We had a boxer that bit me. She was female, and I did not know about dog dominance issues. She thought she was the alpha female, and I didn't correct her when she was young. I didn't have her put down. But we now have another female, as josie past many years ago from old age, and miss abby learned from a very young age, that I am the alpha. Not one issue.

Ill be honest here, I'm always cautious around pits because of their reputation and things I've seen on the news.

Personal experience however has given me little to be worried about. I have 2 friends that I have known that have owned 1 or more pits. Not a single one of them was mean or agressive. They were all extremely playful, and unfortunatley weighed a lot so jumping on me constantly kind of became literally a pain (getting scratched up, clothes ripped, etc....) They weren't trying to scratch me, just play. So the ONLY thing that makes me worried about the ones that we personally know is their weight and the jumping.

I'm not immediately concerned about any of them biting me or my son who will be 2 in January. HOWEVER we still practice common sense, for example:

We have a beagle/lab mix, size of a small beagle. We did not let her get anywhere near his face or he near hers for the first year of his life. She knew to stay the heck away from him if she wanted to remain a part of this family. She has never once growled or barked at him. We trust her now, and they are best friends, she sleeps with him at night and follows him around during the day. She was my first baby before I had my son, I got her when I was 18, but my loyalty stops for her when it comes to my sons safety. If she EVER causes serious harm to him, I will take her out myself, with tears in my eyes.

My parents have two chihuahua Pomeranian mixes. They are little jerkheads. Bark 24/7 and growl if you get anywhere near them. They have growled at my baby a few times, and once one of them put his teeth on my childs hand when he tried to pet him. Didn't bite but warned him he might. My dad promptly let his dog know if he did it again, he'd find out if all dogs went to heaven or not.

And as for our friends pits, and dogs we don't come into contact with every day or at all, we enusre he can't get anywhere too close to them. We do our best to not give any dogs an opportunity to make a mistake around us or our baby. I wish other people could have the same kind of sense.

With that being said, my point is, any dog can harm a baby or scar a baby or a person for life. The breed doesn't matter, the dog and it's attitude and owners determine that- along with the fact that THEY ARE ANIMALS! And animals don't understand our language, they don't understand what a mistake is, but they can make them as far as we are concerned.

My opinions are a bit mixed and in the middle, I understand they are 1. ANIMALS FIRST and 2. stronger dogs than some, and heavier than some, and that's where I see most of the risk from what I've witnessed.

Don't ban pitbulls, ban bad owners, make it harder to be an animal owner, not everyone deserves to be a pet owner or is capable.

S+F

-Alee

PS Sorry my thoughts were all over the place on this one.

a reply to: Edumakated

The problem is pitbulls and other bully breeds are far more likely to have an owner who didn't properly socialize the animal. Unfortunately, the breed attracts a lot of ghetto and redneck thugs seeking to compensate or show off

Agreed. Especially when most often dogs are sold cheaply or given away. This makes them less important to the owner. The proper care and attention is forgotten..

a reply to: PageLC14

Well, this is not minded at you, OP, but that same people that say that all breeds of dogs are equally ill tempered, often go on about how some breeds, say, retrievers, are excellent family dogs because of their temper and patience.

That does not compute for me.
You cannot have it both ways.

If some breeds are less aggressive and ill tempered, it follows that some must be MORE aggressive and ill tempered.

Everyone agrees that different breeds have different traits.That was the whole point of breeding them in the first place. I find it curious to insist that it is limited to physical traits.

Gotta also take into account that in gangland, pits are bred and trained to fight, because they are the best fighting dogs.

Pits that are used this way in those kinds of neighborhoods are often associated with gang and drug activity, also making it harder for law enforcement to effectively police.

Its there in the hood you hear the most horror stories about escaped dogs terrorizing the populace.

a reply to: Crumbles

Reminds me of my two small chihuahua mix females I had. One fixed one not. One I'd had longer and for awhile they coexisted fine. Then one day they just attacked each other, I think over my attention, but unlike your's they didn't become friends again. Had to keep them seperated until I found a home for one. I didn't understand that at all. They'd never hurt me but wanted to fight to the death over who got my attention. It's so weird.

a reply to: intrptr

I agree 100%. Keeping us divided on pretty much every subject. For what reason though? I have no clue. But seems to me that there always needs to be a right and a left.

Greetings-

Back in 2001 while working undercover Narcotics, We were doing a Search Warrant at a house where both the sales/manufacturing of methamphetamine took place, allegedly. At that time I weighed 272# and was full of muscle (natural) and My job was to 'bang the door' by using a 78# Ram. As We tried to be quiet going up the front porch area and got into position, I did the Ca. required "Knock & Notice" This is the law that states that prior to banging down the door, the Officer(s) MUST announce their presence and the reason for being there e.g. "Oakland P.D. Search Warrant Demand Entry" then You give the suspected Crook(s) ample time to either flee the residence or to flush the dope.

Well, I knocked down the door in 1 blow, keeping My personal streak of 37 straight '1 Knockers' in order and here came "Security" A very large, menacing, growling PitBull who didn't even notice the other cops on both sides of the doorway and came right after Me. He leapt up and I moved the ramming end and the dog clamped onto it. So as I'm jumping backwards holding a 78# Ram w/a muscle-bound, cranked up PitBull on one end, I landed wrong and the fight continued on the front lawn. I was trying to get the dog to let go to no avail. Another officer from the DEA shot His .40 Glock and the first round bounced off the dogs noggin and almost hit an 'interested neighbor' who was watching the police action. The fight is continuing and it seems like a long time. Shot #2 missed My r/foot by 5". We are still fighting. I finally maneuver the dog closer to DEA Agent so He can assist 'better' Shot #3 was from about 3" and only after another 10-15 seconds did the dog finally let go.

As soon as I dropped the Ram I knew something was amiss. My back was aching like nothing I ever felt before and I got shot w/a .25 in the arm before this and it didn't hurt as bad. I also noticed that both My pinkie/left fingers were numb. (still are..) I ended up being retired from that incident.

I NEVER, EVER, felt that it was the dog's fault. It was raised by folks who taught it weird snip. There were pics and two videos of the dog wearing a link chin/padlock and the video depicted the dog being made to attack cats and stray dogs. Now add 'Crappy Human Interaction' and then add being in a poison laden methamphetamine lab cooped up w/those chemicals..

I've always had Weimaraners (avatar pic is of Evven #7) but to make MySelf feel better, I adopted a Weimaraner/PitBull mix and She lays by Me while I type this. She is the absolute kindest canine I've come across.
We also have a couple of new PitBulls at the Dog Park and I've noticed that the actual dogs are 'fine' but if another dog's human has any mis-conceptions that non-positive energy is transferred to the dog. In "most" cases it is the human that is the 'non-thinking animal' that skews things...

Cesar Milan has "Daddy" who is a PitBull and Daddy comes along on the 'tough cases'..

a reply to: chiefsmom

Exactly. IMO, EVERY DOG is capable of being aggressive. And that's due to their instinct as an entire species, NOT as one specific breed.

Like you, my mom has a pit now who is old whom she only recently got herself. He has snapped at other children but only when my mom is around. She warns people with children to stay away and even locks him in her room if company is over. She had a friend over once with two small girls and while my mother was away they brought the dog out without my mom's consent and played with him without any issue at all. I think his problem is he believes she is HIS mommy, he is the baby. So any babies that come around his mommy are a threat. Idk. You just never know what to expect but the problem I see is that people tend to ASSUME the worse.

We all know what happens when you assume.... Lol

a reply to: NerdGoddess

I understood your spastic thoughts, no worry. Lol

That's what started this discussion I had earlier. I was talking about a loose Great Dane down the street from us that growled and barked at me after I clapped my hands at him for trying to jump on my daughter who's five and very easy to knock down. Told her I'd considered calling animal control and she said they'd just tell me not to walk that way. Psht. Like hell. I don't think he was trying to hurt me or her but wanted to play and when I clapped at him he became protective over HER. But the dogs silly owner needs to have him in a fenced yard. If that dog bites me it won't be pretty for him no matter why he did it, unfortunately.

a reply to: PageLC14

PS if you live in the USA they will do more than tell you not to walk that way, and most of what they do will be her problem to deal with.


Also I wouldn't blame you. Like I said, I love my dogs, I value them more than most people I've met, BUT my baby comes first and if anyones dog harms my baby for whatever reason- mine, the neighbors, my friends, my own parents dogs, I'm sorry but you know how the hand will be played.

-Alee

originally posted by: PageLC14
a reply to: intrptr

I agree 100%. Keeping us divided on pretty much every subject. For what reason though? I have no clue. But seems to me that there always needs to be a right and a left.

'Two sides' to divide us, 'two sides' when they don't want to spend some money on the people. They all go one way together though when it comes to 'defense' spending. Mostly without the peoples permission.

The two party system is a sham. Its just supposed to be elected representatives, of by an for all the people, not by and for one party or the other.

They'd divide us along many lines, we are so busy conflicting with one another we don't unite to fight the injustice, endless war, debt, etc.

We are too busy bickering amongst ourselves.

Glad you see it too.

originally posted by: PageLC14
a reply to: intrptr

Its a main stream media campaign to demonize effectively trained guard dogs the same way they demonize firearms.

You know, I was comparing this to the racial conflicts we have here. The stereotypes we've put on different races. All pits are aggressive like all white people are racist.

You're right on though. It's the MSM that's behind it.

Exactly its perpetuated stereotypes for the most part. It's the same as to what happened in the 80/s90s with German Shepherds, Rottweilers, etc.

I'm firmly against Breed Specific Legislation. Some of the touting of BSL is supported by people who have their own cause against Bully Breeds.

a reply to: DupontDeux

Oh yea of course! If you're taking that stage on the subject you can't be picky on the variables. Trust me, I don't hold any dog to a higher standard than the other breeds. I know the chihuahua nipping at my heels would bite my foot off if it could.