Top military commanders in history.

So who, in your opinion was the best military commander(s) in history??

Then who is your personal favorite?



I think the crown belongs to:

1) THE Hannibal Barca.. honestly half the reason I added ranking them and the (s) at the end of commander is because I'm trying to avoid everyone picking the same guy lol.

He literally had Rome throw 1 consular army at him(20k romans) , then 2 (40k) then 4 (80k). Every time he was out numbered and every time he used some brilliant maneuver (still studied by EVERY MILITARY today) to achieve victory and caused AT LEAST a 50% casualty rate (unheard of then or now)....

And that is just the cool ones... he won dozens of smaller engagements that are over shadowed by his flashy ones.

After that:

2)Alexander (self explanatory, lol) in hanniables own words "no man conquered more land, with less troops over vaster distances.)

Below here my rankings are way trickier.

3) king phyyris , namesake to the Phyyric victory. He invented army camp layouts and a lot of formation strategy. Honestly, he is here mainly because hannible said he should be and any conflict with a Barca is asking for trouble so I refuse to argue. Lol

4) sun tzu, literally wrote the top book on conflict in all of history..after winning china for his emporer.

5) Rommel if Hitler was smart enough to follow his orders. We would all be speaking German today.

6) Nathan Bedford Forrest :look him up he deserves his spot...maybe even a hair higher.

7) Scipio Africanous, he was the one who finally beat hanniable, but IMHO he was specifically ( self ) trained to beat this one opponent. I'm not 100% sure he could beat the other greats. But deserves a really high spot reguardless.

8) ceaser and Marc Anthony, these were really a duo..ceaser the brains and Anthony the balls..seemingly unbeatable while together.

9) Sanderbeg, kicked butt and took names against the ottomans at their hieght of power.


10) bellisaurious, general for Justinian

Thoughts??

Arguments??

People I should be tarred and feathered for skipping?

.......I missed leonidias of Sparta and 300 fame....getting your men to agree to the "greatest last stand in history" has gotta rank up there..

And napoleon....

I think I'll go get the tar and feathers myself...

Please be sure to include your vote, for the GOAT (greatest of all time)!

I think that you also forgot about:

General George S. Patton.

Gen. Dweight D. Einseinhower.

Ho chi Mihn

Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
I think that you also forgot about:

General George S. Patton.

Gen. Dweight D. Einseinhower.

Ho chi Mihn

Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

Didn't forget the first two, but I Gotta actually look up Patton's/Eisenhower's achievements or I'm just naming commonly said names rather than my personal opinion. .
Stonewall I have looked into but have found very little on why he is considered a stud. Just stuff saying he won here or there by taking the flank. I'm not sure that compares to the trickyness of the rest of the list.

I started at the Trojan war and have been working my way forward. Presently I'm at the civil war.

Does Yamamoto and ho chi rank with the best?

Who do you consider the GOAT? (Greatest of all time)??

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Arthur Wellesley Duke Of Wellington

Bernard Montgomery

Horatio Nelson ( 1st Viscount Nelson )

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Arthur Wellesley Duke Of Wellington

Bernard Montgomery

Horatio Nelson ( 1st Viscount Nelson )

Your GOAT?

a reply to: JoshuaCox
I think the criterion needs to be skill, rather than extent of conquest.
There are many conquests which don't need much skill, because the general enjoys great advantages in resources (Kitchener in the Sudan), and many other generals have fought skilfully with inferior forces before succumbing (Robert E. Lee).
Maurice of Nassau's achievement was saving his country by not being beaten.
Frederick the Great was fighting three or four countries at the same time, and Napoleon began his career fighting against overwhelming odds.
How can you forget Cromwell, Marlborough, Wellington?
And what about naval commanders? I offer you Nelson- not just for Trafalgar, but for Aboukir.
Let the question be- who moved his forces about skilfully?

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
I think that you also forgot about:

General George S. Patton.

Gen. Dweight D. Einseinhower.

Ho chi Mihn

Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

I would not call Patton a great commander in this regard

He was a excellent general and conducted his roles well, I would even call him a hero. But I would not put him in the same league as Einseinhower, Rommel or Montgomery.

He was a great general dont get me wrong, just not a great strategic mind.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Queen Boudica of the Iceni.

She got rip roaring angry at the Romans in Britain, and walked all over them for quite a time, in revenge for the treatment of her family at the hands of the horrid, morally retarded, toga wearing bastards. I admire her style.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Arthur Wellesley Duke Of Wellington

Bernard Montgomery

Horatio Nelson ( 1st Viscount Nelson )

Did a bit of looking into Wellesley and he seems like a super stud....

Also pointed out my failure to include napoleon....

Seconding Patton. Not George C. Scotts portrayal. That was Hollywood.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Do some reading on Jackson's Shenandoah Campaign. He kicked the # out of the Yankees all over the valley, all with a force about 1/3 of what he was taking on. He took on two or three different large bodies of US troops and pretty decisively defeated them, multiple times.

Beyond that, using his brigade to halt a retreat at Manassas and plug the line had already put his name in the history books. He's also credited with being the first one to unleash the "Rebel Yell" during battle, after telling his men to scream as they charged Federal troops.

Honestly not sure what you're reading if you're not able to find much in the way that explains why he's so highly regarded.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: JoshuaCox
I think the criterion needs to be skill, rather than extent of conquest.
There are many conquests which don't need much skill, because the general enjoys great advantages in resources (Kitchener in the Sudan), and many other generals have fought skilfully with inferior forces before succumbing (Robert E. Lee).
Maurice of Nassau's achievement was saving his country by not being beaten.
Frederick the Great was fighting three or four countries at the same time, and Napoleon began his career fighting against overwhelming odds.
How can you forget Cromwell, Marlborough, Wellington?
And what about naval commanders? I offer you Nelson- not just for Trafalgar, but for Aboukir.
Let the question be- who moved his forces about skilfully?

I didn't really mention extent of conquest and quite a few lost, so they weren't conquesting much lol. And almost all of my list were out numbered and/or out gunned.

Hell even ceaser was out numbered when he pulled his double wall siege.

I don't think there is anyone on my list, that is there because of ordering his generals to go conquer while he chilled at the crib.


Who is your GOAT?

I would put Sitting Bull in there somewhere. His strategy really was brilliant. He suckered Custer's troops in. It wasn't just overwhelming force.

I also second Queen Boudica. People really don't know much about that era of British history.

a reply to: JoshuaCox
Having made the criterion one of skill, I know enough about the battles of the generals I named to recognise them as skilful, but I don't know enough to rank them in order.
On that basis, it may not be an answerable question.

Alexander Suvorov is probably tied with #1 with Alexander the Great...
Let's add some to the list I didn't see:

Georgy Zhukov

Attila the Hun

Cyrus

Subutai

Genghis Khan

Napoleon

Zhuge Liang

Carl von Clausewitz

Lothar von Arnauld de la Periere

Erich von Manstein

(I included strategists and field commanders)
The list could go on and on though.

Grand Admiral Thrawn - for those of a star wars disposition

The real skill of a general/admiral etc is ensuring you have the right people at the right places at the right times as while a field marshal oversees the entire battle its those down the line who need to be the ones able to carry out the orders.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Do some reading on Jackson's Shenandoah Campaign. He kicked the # out of the Yankees all over the valley, all with a force about 1/3 of what he was taking on. He took on two or three different large bodies of US troops and pretty decisively defeated them, multiple times.

Beyond that, using his brigade to halt a retreat at Manassas and plug the line had already put his name in the history books. He's also credited with being the first one to unleash the "Rebel Yell" during battle, after telling his men to scream as they charged Federal troops.

Honestly not sure what you're reading if you're not able to find much in the way that explains why he's so highly regarded.

My reading has only given roughly the same amount of info as you did. Choosing to focus on the man rather than his battle strategy. He was a weird dude, so it tends to steal the conversation

No doubt he was unshakable.

And every one on most lists were excellent motivators of men.

Such as when Forrest had "encircled" a larger union force that he could not beat. The union was entrenched on a hill. So Forrest had his men and artillery keep circling the one thing vantage point the union troops had. Giving the impression he had WAY MORE GUNS AND MEN then he had. Then Forrest offered them terms and they surrendered.

He was a crazy hothead who was still humble enough to know he couldn't win in a fight, but smart enough to beat his opposition anyway..

That's some brilliant stuff...and from a guy who could not read, didn't go to West Point and never read a military book in his life.

What's stonewalls brilliant action? And I'm not saying it's not there..just that I haven't heard it yet.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Aisha Muhammad's wife. No seriously, she's actually a Military officer that lead armies.

Abu Bakr's reign was short, and in 634 he was succeeded by Umar as caliph. Umar reigned for ten years before being assassinated and was followed by Uthman ibn Affan in 644. Both of these men had been among Muhammad's earliest followers, were linked to him by clanship and marriage, and had taken prominent parts in various military campaigns. Aisha, in the meantime, lived in Medina and made several pilgrimages to Mecca.

In 655, Uthman's house was put under siege by about 1000 rebels. Eventually the rebels broke into the house and murdered Uthman, provoking the First Fitna. After killing Uthman, the rebels asked Ali to be the new caliph, although Ali was not involved in the murder of Uthman according to many reports. Ali reportedly initially refused the caliphate, agreeing to rule only after his followers persisted.

When Ali could not execute those merely accused of Uthman's murder, Aisha delivered a fiery speech against him for not avenging the death of Uthman. The first to respond to Aisha was Abdullah ibn Aamar al-Hadhrami, the governor of Mecca during the reign of Uthman, and prominent members of the Banu Umayya. With the funds from the "Yemeni Treasury" Aisha set out on a campaign against the Rashidun Caliphate of Ali.

Aisha, along with an army including Zubayr ibn al-Awam and Talha ibn Ubayd-Allah, confronted Ali's army, demanding the prosecution of Uthman's killers who had mingled with his army outside the city of Basra. When her forces captured Basra she ordered the execution of 600 Muslims and 40 others, including Hakim ibn Jabala, who were put to death in the Grand Mosque of Basra.

Aisha's forces are also known to have tortured and imprisoned Othman ibn Hanif the governor of Basra appointed by Ali. Aisha battling the fourth caliph Ali in the Battle of the Camel Ali rallied supporters and fought Aisha's forces near Basra in 656. The battle is known as the Battle of the Camel, after the fact that Aisha directed her forces from a howdah on the back of a large camel.

Aisha's forces were defeated and an estimated 10,000 Muslims were killed in the battle, considered the first engagement where Muslims fought Muslims.[79] After 110 days of conflict the Rashidun Caliph Ali ibn Abi Talib met Aisha with reconciliation. He sent her back to Medina under military escort headed by her brother Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr, one of Ali's commanders. She subsequently retired to Medina with no more interference with the affairs of state she was also awarded a pension by Ali. Although she retired to Medina her forsaken efforts against the Rashidun Caliphate of Ali did not end the First Fitna.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: JoshuaCox
Having made the criterion one of skill, I know enough about the battles of the generals I named to recognise them as skilful, but I don't know enough to rank them in order.
On that basis, it may not be an answerable question.

Of course it isn't lol!

Who is your Personal ones though?

Who do you rank #1?

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Aisha Muhammad's wife. No seriously, she's actually a Military officer that lead armies.

Abu Bakr's reign was short, and in 634 he was succeeded by Umar as caliph. Umar reigned for ten years before being assassinated and was followed by Uthman ibn Affan in 644. Both of these men had been among Muhammad's earliest followers, were linked to him by clanship and marriage, and had taken prominent parts in various military campaigns. Aisha, in the meantime, lived in Medina and made several pilgrimages to Mecca.

In 655, Uthman's house was put under siege by about 1000 rebels. Eventually the rebels broke into the house and murdered Uthman, provoking the First Fitna. After killing Uthman, the rebels asked Ali to be the new caliph, although Ali was not involved in the murder of Uthman according to many reports. Ali reportedly initially refused the caliphate, agreeing to rule only after his followers persisted.

When Ali could not execute those merely accused of Uthman's murder, Aisha delivered a fiery speech against him for not avenging the death of Uthman. The first to respond to Aisha was Abdullah ibn Aamar al-Hadhrami, the governor of Mecca during the reign of Uthman, and prominent members of the Banu Umayya. With the funds from the "Yemeni Treasury" Aisha set out on a campaign against the Rashidun Caliphate of Ali.

Aisha, along with an army including Zubayr ibn al-Awam and Talha ibn Ubayd-Allah, confronted Ali's army, demanding the prosecution of Uthman's killers who had mingled with his army outside the city of Basra. When her forces captured Basra she ordered the execution of 600 Muslims and 40 others, including Hakim ibn Jabala, who were put to death in the Grand Mosque of Basra.

Aisha's forces are also known to have tortured and imprisoned Othman ibn Hanif the governor of Basra appointed by Ali. Aisha battling the fourth caliph Ali in the Battle of the Camel Ali rallied supporters and fought Aisha's forces near Basra in 656. The battle is known as the Battle of the Camel, after the fact that Aisha directed her forces from a howdah on the back of a large camel.

Aisha's forces were defeated and an estimated 10,000 Muslims were killed in the battle, considered the first engagement where Muslims fought Muslims.[79] After 110 days of conflict the Rashidun Caliph Ali ibn Abi Talib met Aisha with reconciliation. He sent her back to Medina under military escort headed by her brother Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr, one of Ali's commanders. She subsequently retired to Medina with no more interference with the affairs of state she was also awarded a pension by Ali. Although she retired to Medina her forsaken efforts against the Rashidun Caliphate of Ali did not end the First Fitna.

en.wikipedia.org...

There are quite a few.