Alcoholics Anonymous

That's odd, because I have a friend who's father has been pulled over for DUI several times and he didn't have to go to AA.

I'll trust you on this, though.

AA saved my butt :-) I thank my lucky stars for that program. The concept of one addict helping another to achieve a sober drug free way of life may seem rather confusing to some but it works if you work it.

Addiction is a horrible nightmare that can snuff out your life in the end but in most cases not before destroying your job, friendships, marriage and so forth not to mention your self esteem and some major important body parts. A lot of people simply do not understand just how powerless the afflicted one is to the drug of ones choice.

I tell people if you want to understand addiction eat a whole box of "exlax" and go stand in the corner and let me see how much will power you have :-).

AA is a program of attraction rather then promotion and it seems a lot of people getting sent now days to AA from the courts are having a hard time getting the message. It all comes down to one thing, when the student is ready the teacher will appear :-). Or when you are sick and tired of being sick and tired then you may be ready to really get AA.

AA is NOT a religious program as such. When we talk about a higher power we are taking about a power greater then ourselves. This can be your support group or sponsor. For myself it was the person who had 1 more day clean/sober then myself. Our 3rd step talks about turning our will and lives over to the care of God as we understand him. God can mean "G"ood "O"rderly "D"irection if you do not believe in "GOD".

We listen to the message and not the massager if we are to get the AA program because we understand the guy in front may fall. Sobriety is not a destination but a journey. We stay clean one day at a time and we grow mentally, physically and spiritually at the same rate. We make new friendships with people who have been where we have been and can relate to our bad times as well as our good times.

For myself, I am grateful to now live a life second to none. I am happy and I am free from the bondage of obsession to drugs. And yes, Alcohol is a drug. July 12th will be 8 years for me :-)

Getting sober was hard, staying sober is easy. I simply follow directions and the place I get the directions is AA

LOL Sorry for the lecture, just take what you need and leave the rest.

Originally posted by Skeptical Believer

AA is a program of attraction rather then promotion

just like this forum

If you think about it, Alcoholics Anonymous epitomizes the secret society. They keep themselves secret. They are the only ones that outwardly suggests their secret having!!!

And then there's the ever elusive, never disclosed Thirteenth Step. What's up with that, I'm sure!!!

But I know what the thirteenth step is about just as anyone does. If a secret society keeps any secret, it is the one that has to do with SEX!!! Yeah, I bet the AA people are really glad they put themselves through the hell of the first twelve when they arrive at the last one, where God knows what happens...

"You got to go through hell before you get to heaven" -Steve Miller, no longer anonymous

Everybody's favorite TV game show host,
Guy Smiley

What's the 13th Step? Enquiring minds want to know.

M

Originally posted by Losonczy
What's the 13th Step? Enquiring minds want to know.

M

Well, you're in the 'secret society', aren't you? Oh, sorry man, didn't mean to bust you out there....

No. The Thirteenth Step is someone taking advantage of a newcomer while they are vulnerable and/or trusting of the people in the rooms. Some people actually go to the meetings to hook up with others who's esteem might not be at their highest.

There are other words for them, like bastards, or a-holes, you know, the old standards. There's usually always someone who picks up on this action and cuts it off right quick. 'Cause you know, there's a slip under every skirt.... or so they say.

Farmer "Stinky Thumbs" Arbuckle

Ok this has to be the crazy thread yet.
got sober 3-17-1985.
the only reason for "secret" is when it was first founded, being a drunk was not a good thing, and they where worried about become percacutied (sp).
13th stepping: the act of saying sober by #ing (having sex with) a fellow member of AA. its not a secret its just what we call the morons that dont work the other 12 steps, and only trys to get by doing the same sick/crazy behavor that got them to AA in the first place.

I'll bet going to an AA meeting with your spouse is a real turn-on for those guys, then.

I've heard you're not supposed to go into new relationships for about the first year of sobriety, but the 13th step is new to me.
I'm happy AA works for some people. It did me no good. I never felt connected. Maybe it was I wasn't ready or I hadn't surrendered, who knows.

What broke alcohol's grip on me was returning to Church. Talk about your dilemna: I believe God helped me to help myself. And now, the religion part of God doesn't make sense to me anymore!

Originally posted by RANT
Lucky you. But the GOVERNMENT has completely backed and authorized AA and all it's tenants and it's method by REQUIRING anyone that get's a DUI to attend AA meetings now, and get signatures for their parole officer.

____________________________________________

This is not true. AA meetngs are only ONE acceptable method of alcohol prevention techniques advocated by the courts, although they are the most commonly prescribed.

A person can submit to other, professional treatments that the court will accept, such as psychiatric treatment at their own cost. AA is commonly prescribed because it is FREE.

AA Huh? I know it seems like a great program for alot of you. But it did my family no good. My father was an alchy. Went to a rehab program then to AA. Didnt work! I see AA as a program for weak minded peole who cant do things on there own. I am sure that statement will piss alot of you off and you will want to flame the hell outta me for it. But i feel I have earned the right to say it, growing up with an alcoholic father. And yes his AA meeting were very religous. THey make you trun to god to save yourself? IF there was a god would he let my family go through the crap we did when my father was drunk all the time. hmmm. Oh well if you cant handle the booze, quit drinking , it that simple, yes it is that simple.

AA does NOT mandate any specific higher power. I have a friend in California who is as Athiest as you can get and LOVES AA, it saved his life.

He goes to an Atheist AA group in L.A. and they do just fine.

the reality of AA is there is every kind of group for every kind of person. They have Clean Air groups (no smoking), Athiest groups (no God), homosexual groups (no whatever) and so on.

The tenets of AA, (I will describe them in a very simplistic way), merely indicate that a person who has lost control of their life MUST find something,someone or somehow to surrender that imagined control to so they can concentrate on helping OTHERS.

TYhe beleif is that by helping others one can help themselves. You get by giving. This quai mysterious system has undeniably helped millions of people and it is wrong headed IMHO to think otherwise.

No, I am not a member but I have friends who are and I am thankful for the program because of them.

m...

Originally posted by IMMORTAL
I still think that Alcoholic beverages should be made illegal in North America. Alcoholic beverages are perhaps just one method on the governments part to further subjugate people to destructive addictions, aside from the tax benefits governments receive because alcoholic beverages are taxed in Canada.

Although I respectfully disagree with you about alcohol prohibition, I think you may be on to something. Why are some of the most destructive inebriants made available to the public (cigarettes and booze), while virtually non-harmful substances (like marijuana) are prohibited and violently oppressed? If there is a conspiracy, it has to be related to the so-called "War on Drugs." What nonsense.

I think that alcohol and tobacco are given carte blanche for two reasons: 1) money (of course) and 2) both substances are addictive (either physically or psychologically), and addicted people are far easier to control.

The GOV doesn't want substances like marijuana, psilocybin mushrooms, and peyote legal because they cause people to think for themselves and look at things in new ways�and that's one thing the GOV does not want at all.

I agree with 23....and as far as prohibition: they can have my Sam Adams Cherry Wheat Ale when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

...I know it is a cult. While perhaps I initially needed a certain mind control methodology to sober up, AA only served to maintain my horrible self-image. For my initial six years, staying clean seemed impossible despite taking all the "suggestions." Basically, AA has a classification that I apparently fit, which is, "constitutionally incapable of being honest," therefore damned to a life of uncontrollable drink, merely "powerless." However, during the last fifteen years, I maintained complete sobriety, though at times went many months between meetings. But according to AA lore, that is an anomaly because without regularly going to meetings, one must drink. Of course, that is merely a delusional self-fulfilling prophesy. In fact, I know three people within my family who once drank destructively, quit, then went to a few meetings but stopped attending many years ago and are sober to this very day. As for myself, I quit going to AA nine months ago and have rarely felt better. During that time, I found a great many people who are against "the program" because of the way it negatively affected them. Indeed, most of them are very sure that it is a cult and provide evidence, as exposed in the following links:

Cults
AA Cult Scorecard
Deprogramming
The 12 Step Cult

There is a myth about the effectiveness of AA. Even the General Service Office of AA puts the recovery rate at only five percent. Fifteen years ago, the published rate was seven percent. After being in the fellowship for a total of twenty-one years, that is consistent with my observations. There are many people in AA who I maintain contact with, though few who go longer than a year between drinking debauches or drug abuse. But the old line remains the same while slogans are spouted mindlessly. Finally, I decided to stop going because of abusive "friends" in the program. While there are some kind people too, I found that the abuse was merely a replay of the adolescent games I experienced for decades. And no matter where I go, the very same (c) is repeated, along with a lot of brainwashing. For instance, there is a "Doctor's Opinion" in the AA Big Book from the early 20th century, which supposedly stands for all time! Of course, many doctors and much research since then points out AA fallacies:

A Second Opinion
Choice
Sobriety without Superstition

Hey, I have been involved with AA since 1982 and I gotta say this, it is with out a doubt one of the most widely accept brainwashing programs in the world.

Honestly, they even use the word program all the time. They admit to reprogramming people. They are the key to most recovery centers in the whole world. It is all about reprogramming. But what are they being reprogrammed to do? The primary focus is getting people to believe they are powerless and have no control over their lives. There for surrending to the program that their higher power has brought to them in their lives.

Individuality is not encouraged in this program. They say be yourself, and then they say conform. Follow or rules, or else. Or else what? Or else you are less than the rest of us.

It's pretty sad, I think.

Firstly, I agree that AA is for the weak minded. Those people who can't break themselves from the chemicals they love. It is about giving into the fact that you're powerless, so in that aspect, I think its wrong. Then again, I don't believe in alcoholism as a real disease, its a mental block to get around. As with any other drug, you just need to find that you are indeed more powerful than the urge. I find typically, alcohol becomes a hobby for people, and it turns to addiction. I usually find those people cured by finding a hobby that encapsulates who they are and diving into it until they are too tired to do anything else. You just need to take the negative that is your life and replace it with a positive. I don't need a "program" for that.

As far as DUI's, here in PA you can do a thing called ARD. It is a safe driving class and apparently takes the DUI off your record. I have had tons of friends go through this (lots of DUIs committed in my area, a large percentage of the 18-25 demographic has a DUI here). You MIGHT do jail, you go on a 6 month probation, and you take a mental health test. Wrap it up with $1000-$1500 in fines, and I think you're pretty silly for trying it again. The courts do too, because its like 3 months in jail for a second.

I've been to AA. The ONLY way AA will help you truly quit and be free (NA, too) is going to those meetings....


and seeing just how pathetically miserable people are just under the surface. They are all barely holding on, and most of their lives are falling apart... and what's even worse is when you're YES FORCED by the courts to go there... and they get you into their mind games and make you feel nothing but guilt and helplessness, and then you drink one beer or have a couple shots at a friends house every once in a while (I was a teen at the time... TERRIBLE for teens, in my opinion.), and all you have is more guilt.

Giving your power away to ANYTHING other than yourself is mind control... either self induced, or from external stimulus. It's mind control BECAUSE it does not treat the causes of alcoholism... which uhh look around you... the causes are obvious!

AA.... you give your power completely away to a force outside of you... and that really gives you a low self esteem... my god, I was suicidal that whole time.

Don't tell the people there's something wrong with them. There's nothing wrong with them. They are just misguided about life, and they are trying to find some rational way to deal with an irrational environment that just won't go away.

I was in rehab for four and a half months (all that time there was two aa and two na meetings a week) and then I had to do about two years of probation, in which I WAS forced to go to AA or NA the whole time.

And yeah there were some real creeps there. Scared the living # outta me that there were people that strung out that the only thing they could use to help them deal with existence was substances.

I guarantee you, 95% of AA members go back to the sauce... and when they do, they feel the guilt because they're still going to meetings... so they drink more... and dude those guys in there are so brutal. I sure as hell wouldn't wanna admit I sinned against the holy dozen and the big book, and the man upstairs who they say you need to answer to and give all your power to Him.

It's a religion, if not a cult. They have holy texts, doctrines, and a diety to which they depend on.

Ugh, and their lives were so dsimal. All anybody ever did was chainsmoke, drink 2 gallons of coffee per person, and then have the gall to talk about addiction like they beat it or something.

Maybe the athiest AA meetings are different, but that's the minority. That damn book is a diety enough in itself. It's like they can't breathe without it. It's lunacy, and telling from experiencing it as an impressionable teen, it's no way to live.

"Hey, wanna come play some videogames and smoke a joint and talk about the universe?"

Nah. I gotta go to a meeting where a bunch of miserable adults are whining about "the urge, the urge..."

I know the urge well... and I know that it's not a specific urge for anything other than sweet release from the death grip of societal pressure. It's ALL psychological, even the physical symptoms (not counting the detox period, which I hear can be a horrible experience...)

I reccomend everybody with a drinking problem, go to at least three meetings, if you've never been. If the atmosphere of the meetings doesn't scare you straight,

Get into meditation. THAT will save your life, truly. There is no power other than your own mind at work there.

Acoholism is based off the sham field of psychology (combined with the sham field of mainstream, and other than gnostic, Christianity), anyway... basically saying that we have no control over our own brains.

We're powerless. That's the message. Accept that you are powerless over everything except your own personal bull# world that society built for you to lock you in anyway.

That's the closest thing to truth you'll hear. Listen to people who say these kinds of things.

The power in ONE.... not the power in half a man, holding his one half up with a crutch.

The truth is out there.

www.orange-papers.org...

AA drowned me in guilt, I found myself feeling like such a loser and became depressed and felt that everything that happened in my life was all my fault.

The absence part was a constant struggle for me.

What freed me from the prison of addiction was a counselor who explained to me that I ( as we all are ) are multi faceted personalities and although the "addictive part" was "running the show" there would be a constant fight between that part of me and the "other" aspects of me, and that the addictive part felt she would be killed off and fought hard to remain in the drivers seat.

When I was able to comprehend that that facet of me was a part of me that allowed me to cope by drowning out pain and intense feelings of failure and possibaly protected me for a while, it became obssessive and dominating.

I then came to realize that a way to come to terms with things was to acknowledge the other healthier parts of me and to make a decision for this healthy aspect to "run things" without killing off the addict I was freed from addiction.

AA promotes you as one thing only a hopeless addict who can only recover through abstinence.

Working with the wise counselor who enlightened be to the multi faceted personality has allowed me to still partake at times and I am able to function with moderation. I don't drink to get drunk anymore, I drink smaller quantities, enough to relax a few times a month with out the thinking that I am powerless.

I am not powerless the addictive part of me became powerless over the ability to know when to stop because of her limitations.

If I get to feeling crazy or feeling like I need to numb out, I simply call out the facet of myself who is wanting the best for me and she is able to tell the addict that she has value, but she can't drive the bus anymore.

Sounds corny and all, but after fighting myself and feeling like there were two brain functions at work I came to terms with the ability to allow myself to identify as more than just and addict or alchoholic.

This may not work for everyone, but it did free me.

In a nutshell, AA encourages you to believe that is your only identity and that is just not true. We have potential to develop more than one facet of personality and each may serve a purpose. I am not just an addict, I am also a responsible, loving, good choice making human being, but as long as I allow myself to be brainwashed into believing an addict is the whole of me I will always fight myself.

Probably not a good explanation, but after years of battling this and more than one rehab, it was a revelation for me.

There are other programs and other ways to understand ourselves.

Horses for courses. I don't do God, I don't do religion. For me the it was a lifesaver.

Since finding AA I have also been to NA too. I am without a sponser, I don't pray every day (although I do have a quiet word with a mate) and I'm not a regular meeting goer BUT it works for me and do you know what?????? That's really all that matters.

Don't diss what you don't get