Forget About Popular The Vote, Let's Look At The Geographic Vote !

originally posted by: links234
So now geographic area is more important than actual voters? What kind of an argument is that?

Loving county, Texas has 82 people. Are you trying to tell me that Loving county should have more political power than Los Angeles county with 9.8 million?

Indeed. Perfectly stated.

Geographic area is very important, considering that we are a union made up of 50 individual nations ( states ). Within the individual states, the people vote for president, and the winner of that state gets the electoral votes.

We are not a singular nation. We are a confederation of States.

You don't like it, push for a Constitutional Convention and the destruction of this country that it means...

originally posted by: WeDemBoyz
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

why should only 57 counties control all of America ?

Because that is where the majority of the population lives. Those people's votes count just as much as someone living in a rural area. The US Constitution awards electors to the Electoral College based upon votes, not land mass. I mean it's fairly straight forward, no?

Not exactly as straightforward as you imagine. Each state, NO MATTER HOW SMALL OR LARGE, gets two electoral votes just for being a state. So Delaware, which is smaller than many hundreds of western counties, gets two extra electoral votes and all those counties get none. The net effect of the electoral college is to give a slight advantage to smaller, less populous states. Moreover, it means that politicians need to campaign all over the United States, not just New York and California. It's possible for ANY state to become the lynch pin for the election. Democracy, i.e.: One person, one vote, is simply Mob Rule.

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: WeDemBoyz
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

why should only 57 counties control all of America ?

Because that is where the majority of the population lives. Those people's votes count just as much as someone living in a rural area. The US Constitution awards electors to the Electoral College based upon votes, not land mass. I mean it's fairly straight forward, no?

Not exactly as straightforward as you imagine. Each state, NO MATTER HOW SMALL OR LARGE, gets two electoral votes just for being a state. So Delaware, which is smaller than many hundreds of western counties, gets two extra electoral votes and all those counties get none. The net effect of the electoral college is to give a slight advantage to smaller, less populous states. Moreover, it means that politicians need to campaign all over the United States, not just New York and California. It's possible for ANY state to become the lynch pin for the election. Democracy, i.e.: One person, one vote, is simply Mob Rule.

No...it's not mob rule. It's democracy. One person one vote.

If my vote counts less than others maybe I shouldn't have to pay as much in taxes.

My vote is 1/5 the value of neighboring states. Guess I'll start paying 1/5 of thr taxes I'm supposed to.

I've lived in many states. I've seen all sides. No one person I've ever met should have a vote worth more than anyone else's.

Should a black persons vote only be 3/5? No. That was ruled unconstitutional.
One person one vote. It's simple.

It would be pretty easy to starve those lib haven's out.

lol.

What would it take? 3-4 days?

The big cities having influence wouldn't be so bad if they were run well and a shining reflection of all of America.

At this point in time, 2 major parties and dummy 3rd parties should not exist with such wide divisions.

I don't have a horse in the last race so I couldn't care less.
However, rural populations get a larger say considering their
population.If we had a truly representational House and Senate
there would be 500 Senators and over 10,000 Representatives.
Guess what happens next ? Government leans way left.
So shhhhh!!

originally posted by: schuyler
Moreover, it means that politicians need to campaign all over the United States, not just New York and California. It's possible for ANY state to become the lynch pin for the election. Democracy, i.e.: One person, one vote, is simply Mob Rule.

That's bullpucky. When's the last time a Republican presidential nominee campaigned in a blue state or a Democratic nominee campaigned in a red state?

A voter in Wyoming has five times as much voting power as a voter in New York or California. Did Trump Campaign in California? Did Clinton campaign in Wyoming?

If it were one person, one vote then candidates would be forced to campaign everywhere for every vote rather than just hanging around Ohio and Florida for half the election season.

a reply to: pteridine

If you scroll to the bottom of the article the crime rate map is shown.

And it is. Exactly. The. Same.

originally posted by: links234
So now geographic area is more important than actual voters? What kind of an argument is that?

Loving county, Texas has 82 people. Are you trying to tell me that Loving county should have more political power than Los Angeles county with 9.8 million?

We do do it with the Senate why not the presidency ?
Of coarse democrats would not want it, they would never win another election, like ever.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Dodgy Clinton will go down in the history books as a winning loser who did not become President for the very reason the electoral college was established - equal representation per State.

THE UNITED STATES - election of the President by a vote in Congress and election of the President by a popular vote of qualified citizens.

The terrorists known as 'The Founding Fathers' are still terrorizing folks today with their electoral college process concept.

Checks and balances.

originally posted by: DrStevenBrule
a reply to: pteridine

If you scroll to the bottom of the article the crime rate map is shown.

And it is. Exactly. The. Same.

Stevie, I did scroll to the bottom of the article and looked at this, also. www.washingtonpost.com...

And it is. Not. Exactly. The. Same. [I love the drama of one word sentences]

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
It would be pretty easy to starve those lib haven's out.

lol.

What would it take? 3-4 days?

The big cities having influence wouldn't be so bad if they were run well and a shining reflection of all of America.

At this point in time, 2 major parties and dummy 3rd parties should not exist with such wide divisions.

My city is one of the few that can take care of itself without shipments coming in.

originally posted by: links234

originally posted by: schuyler
Moreover, it means that politicians need to campaign all over the United States, not just New York and California. It's possible for ANY state to become the lynch pin for the election. Democracy, i.e.: One person, one vote, is simply Mob Rule.

That's bullpucky. When's the last time a Republican presidential nominee campaigned in a blue state or a Democratic nominee campaigned in a red state?

A voter in Wyoming has five times as much voting power as a voter in New York or California. Did Trump Campaign in California? Did Clinton campaign in Wyoming?

If it were one person, one vote then candidates would be forced to campaign everywhere for every vote rather than just hanging around Ohio and Florida for half the election season.

We have television and Internet. You don't have to go to places to campaign

a reply to: DrStevenBrule

I'm sure I've this before, I do believe you fell for a propaganda meme which means it's BS.

originally posted by: links234

originally posted by: schuyler
Moreover, it means that politicians need to campaign all over the United States, not just New York and California. It's possible for ANY state to become the lynch pin for the election. Democracy, i.e.: One person, one vote, is simply Mob Rule.

That's bullpucky. When's the last time a Republican presidential nominee campaigned in a blue state or a Democratic nominee campaigned in a red state?

A voter in Wyoming has five times as much voting power as a voter in New York or California. Did Trump Campaign in California? Did Clinton campaign in Wyoming?

If it were one person, one vote then candidates would be forced to campaign everywhere for every vote rather than just hanging around Ohio and Florida for half the election season.

Trump this year... he hit Penn, Ohio, Michigan, and wisconsin... Hillary didnt... whoops..

a reply to: Swills

The bottom picture is from the 2012 election.

So yeah...it's not true.

a reply to: plaindoughnut

Can you name me a current true modern democracy?

Let alone a democracy that has the size and population of the US... tell you what lets expand things a bit, name a democracy that ever had 300+ million people in it throughout history.

There is a good reason a pure democracy typically gets abandoned as you get larger than say a city state.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: plaindoughnut

Can you name me a current true modern democracy?

Let alone a democracy that has the size and population of the US... tell you what lets expand things a bit, name a democracy that ever had 300+ million people in it throughout history.

There is a good reason a pure democracy typically gets abandoned as you get larger than say a city state.

Democracy usually fails because of multiculturalism/balkanization. Once things are not going good everyone goes tribal and the tribes blame and try to control the other.

the founders understood this all too well. new englanders and virginians were nothing unlike, and nobody liked the rude fast talking new yorkers. Having colonies/states be given a lot of control over themselves and giving weak states a larger say in federal matters helped quell the fears of one culture(Virginians back then) from dominating the federal government.
This belief still works today.
People in flyover states dislike californians and New Yorkers and would want to get out, With "Popular Mandate" farmers would be legislated and regulated out of profitable business because sustainable and green arguments.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

But if indeed the notion of one person, one vote holds any weight then the person with the most votes should have won the day. The principle of majority rule is after all a cornerstone of democracy. All this electoral college bull crap just seems like another form of apartheid if you ask me.

a reply to: andy06shake

as has been repeated numerous times in various threads over the last several weeks...

America is not and has never been a true democracy, and in fact a true democracy would never work in America... imo.