F-22s in Middle East losing their stealth coating

a reply to: Slakecontagia

They are trying to retire as many as 5 E-3s to strip engines and other parts to put into the supply chain. The JSTARS recapitalization will help, but they're still looking at several years to see the first replacement flying.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Arnie123
They're already requiring a study to give the cost of restarting production, but I wouldn't hold my breath. You're going to be looking at $400M+ per airframe at least. That's getting into B-21 price range, for an aircraft that's less capable than it will be.

More F-22's just isn't going to happen. LockMart can barely keep up with the current production requirements. If there are new fighters in the future keep watching NG for a new airframe or Boeing for revised stealth models of old faves, like F-15 & 18. Only going from BS rumors - but you know, with this new administration that has a business mind, look for logical platforms already in play or have already been tested. Just sayin'....

a reply to: intelgurl

That's what I keep saying. There's no way, even without looking at a production standpoint, that they're going to authorize more F-22s. They were feasible at the original cost, but no way are you going to fly a fighter, with the problems they're still seeing, that costs as much as a bomber.

Even with the F-16 line winding down, they just don't have anywhere to build them. The facility at Marietta is gone to other requirements, and the Viper line is almost certainly going to end up being F-35s so they can keep up with that production.

originally posted by: intelgurl

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Arnie123
They're already requiring a study to give the cost of restarting production, but I wouldn't hold my breath. You're going to be looking at $400M+ per airframe at least. That's getting into B-21 price range, for an aircraft that's less capable than it will be.

More F-22's just isn't going to happen. LockMart can barely keep up with the current production requirements. If there are new fighters in the future keep watching NG for a new airframe or Boeing for revised stealth models of old faves, like F-15 & 18. Only going from BS rumors - but you know, with this new administration that has a business mind, look for logical platforms already in play or have already been tested. Just sayin'....

I mentioned the boneyard earlier ... it seems they don't bother to wrap the 15s and 18s in plastic , anymore . Weedeaters chopping around long parked landing gear in that section .

a reply to: Slakecontagia

They're wrapped, they just don't wrap the entire airframe. They only wrap certain areas, like the canopy. The ones that they stripped out the cockpit don't need protection like the others do.

I'm surprised they have not fixed this problem yet as I'm sure it was an issue with 1st gen stealth aircraft in this theatre of operation

a reply to: Whereismypassword

So, this issue wasn't discovered at the development stage then? you know, when durability, life cycle testing and the like take place, under all conditions that the product could be / would be used in.

Or has China discovered a new "solvent" that dissolves the product and have seeded clouds / atmosphere (sarcasm)

Honestly, i find it hard to believe that this was released into production without knowing about "this issue"

WILL SOMEBODY kick the metamaterials science into gear?

Didnt the B-1 have a similar problem some years back with inclement weather/environment issues making their stealth coating less than optimal?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Aliensun

Which won't make much difference. The coating is breaking down as it peels, which means it will possibly give them what's in it, but not how it's put together.

Really? That's like saying the recovery of an adversaries crashed secret plane won't reveal tons of information about every aspect about how it was manufactured and performance capabilities.

a reply to: Aliensun

RAM coatings are a hell of a lot harder than just looking at materials and putting them together. The F-117 that was shot down in Bosnia took years to figure out, and that had intact RAM for them to work with.

a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

They don't test under every condition. They test under the most likely conditions they're going to operate under, and they simulate the life cycle of the materials, but conditions in the Middle East get pretty nasty. When Desert Storm happened, they found that a lot of things that they thought they had protected against, didn't work very well at all.

a reply to: Zaphod58


The best fireproofing paints are all water based .

It is really a pain when you have to spray down to a micron for that kind of work a human hair is about 70+ microns and they will be super picky for that kind of work

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yes but then for a relatively modern aircraft to have trouble operating in Middle Eastern environments when this aircraft is from the USA, the same USA that has had most of it's recent 'combat' deployments in that same Middle Eastern environment does seem to be taking the biscuit just a tad.

a reply to: DodgyDawg

These aircraft have been operating in theater for months before they started seeing a problem. Yes, this is bad, and it shouldn't have happened, but it's not a "We can't operate in the Middle East period" problem, it's a "We need to limit our time in theater" problem.

Same happened with the Apaches I think with engines and transmissions..Dust and sand is hell on equipment.

So I was talking about some of the F-22s last night with someone I know, and heard a wild story from in theater. Apparently, they were dropping 1,000 pound bombs, but when they'd hit the roof of the building, the bombs would hit one of the roof beams, and it would break the bomb apart (it would still detonate, but it wouldn't hit the ground the way it was supposed to, altering the damage pattern). So the F-22 guys went back to the targeting guys and asked them to move the aim point over 6 inches to either side. The targeting guys said they could do it, but it would take six months to do it.

So the pilots now drop two bombs. One punches a hole in the roof of the building, the other goes through the hole and hits the ground.

I think I read, or heard on the TV, that the coating had a special size in iron dust particles to absorb radar waves, if that dust somehow gets damp...

a reply to: seasonal

With all the money the taxpayer gives to Lockheed, those c*suckers can't even pull those back in immediately and fix them on its' own dime, you know, to keep our boys safe. Everyday it gets harder to stomach just how disgusting our existence must be to the elites. The complete disregard for all human life by these people is hard to imagine.

a reply to: ventian

Would any company pay to fix something that's over ten years old on their own dime? And this could turn out to be a substantial dime. It has nothing to do with the elite, and everything to do with business practices.