My Mother, the Holy Spirit...

It's reported by ''Church father" Origen, that the Jewish Gospel of the Hebrews, said by other fathers to be at one time the Gospel of Matthew but interpolated and edited, the virgin birth being excised and this fascinating bit of information.

Origen, Commentary on John, 2.6

"If anyone should lend credence to the Gospel of the Hebrews, where the Saviour Himself says:

"My Mother, the Holy Spirit took me just now by one of my hairs and carried me off to the great Mt. Tabor."


Origen quotes this twice and Jerome five times.

Jerome, Commentary on Isaiah, 11.9

After repeating the quote he says:

"No one should be offended by this, because 'spirit' in Hebrew is feminine, while in our language [Latin] it is masculine and in Greek it is neuter. In divinity there is no gender."


Well, the Church was stupid to admit many times that the groups that used this Gospel said it was written by Matthew and were Nazarenes and Ebionites (Poor), two sects mentioned briefly in the New Testament, in the Gospels Jesus is called a Nazarene and the term is even used for Paul, though they rejected him as an apostate according to Eusebius, and Paul says James requested Paul "Remember the poor"(Ebionim/Ebionites) and Jesus also uses the term.

The fact that they are Jewish and not Roman, called Nazarenes and Ebionites and not Christians, were the historical losers, I don't believe that the winners had the legitimate claim as Romans to a Jewish religion that had almost no Jews after the 5th century because they were persecuted out of existence, I believe the Jewish version is correct.


On that basis I accept the Gospel of the Hebrews tradition of the Holy Spirit being Jesus Mother, the Divine Feminine that scares so many, as the original tradition.

I don't believe in multiple gods, but I do believe that God is not gender neutral but duel and can act together or individually as Powers of God.


Elohim is feminine, Yahweh masculine, according to some modern Jews. But Elohim is a feminine word.

a reply to: SethTsaddik

Its true, that the OT in Hebrew treats the Holy Spirit as feminine. Even in the NT, there are hints that it takes on a maternal role. I personally believe that even the soul has gender, but I'm not 100% sure. It is a controversial topic, though I don't understand why Christians choose denominational tradition over the grammar of the oldest manuscripts available.

The word spirit is feminine in Hebrew, masculine in Latin, and neutral in Greek, those three languages are called "The Three Sacred Languages". The Holy Spirit is the whole of God ('holy' etymologically comes from the word 'whole').

Male, female; left, right; up, down; inner, outer; etc. The Holy Spirit is all of it and is the unification of God, the Male, Female and Neutral aspects of life itself.

a reply to: SethTsaddik

God is definitely a woman. How else can you explain why women are so beautiful?

Jesus/God used feminine identity in scripture
Its not a big deal at all.
www.womensordination.org...
If you want to see the Spirit as female, fine

Jesus was a Nazarene, identifying His birthplace in Nazareth, not a Nazarite, a separate type of Jew, one who has taken a vow, like Samson.

It seems you are confused or maybe its the way i read what you wrote?


www.idahobaptist.com...

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: SethTsaddik

God is definitely a woman. How else can you explain why women are so beautiful?

Yet Jesus talks only about his Father in heaven and NOT a word about his mother in heaven.

hmmmmmm....

a reply to: DeathSlayer

That's not true, did you read the quote from the OP?

Augustine, by no means a liberal, does not deny the legitimacy of the tradition of the Holy Spirit being the Mother of Jesus, he just accords it to the fact that spirit is a feminine noun in Hebrew.

But the fact that it is a feminine noun does not explain Jesus calling the Spirit his Mother and God his Father, who is a spirit too, and NOT feminine.

So we have a genuine first or second century tradition from the original Nazarenes, who are the original not the pretender.

So if their literature calls the Spirit the Mother of Jesus and puts it in his words, it's legitimate more so than anything canonical.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: SethTsaddik

Its true, that the OT in Hebrew treats the Holy Spirit as feminine. Even in the NT, there are hints that it takes on a maternal role. I personally believe that even the soul has gender, but I'm not 100% sure. It is a controversial topic, though I don't understand why Christians choose denominational tradition over the grammar of the oldest manuscripts available.

Excellent comment, I think it is still a patriarchal world. heard a woman I know say she voted for Trump because ''A woman can't run this country."

I wonder if she realizes that the presidency is not a test of physical strength?

So we have female misogynists today and even they are against things such as women preaching (many churches) and a divine feminine.

At the same time it is making a comeback among the more independent and tolerant minded of all religions, that is feminine divinity.

I am actually a Muslim but don't have a problem with God being made up of feminine attributes, as a matter of fact the ''99 attributes of Allah" have so called feminine characteristics, it would be difficult not to have one ''feminine" characteristic.

By feminine I mean in the way sophia or wisdom is feminine in Greek, though men and women can be wise certain attributes are considered feminine or masculine in certain philosophical systems.

But if the Nazarenes Gospel says that the Holy Spirit was the Mother of the Messiah, I believe it is the oldest tradition and therefore the correct one.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Jesus/God used feminine identity in scripture
Its not a big deal at all.
www.womensordination.org...
If you want to see the Spirit as female, fine

I know it is fine, I wasn't seeking your approval.

Jesus was a Nazarene, identifying His birthplace in Nazareth, not a Nazarite, a separate type of Jew, one who has taken a vow, like Samson.

K. Who brought up Nazirites?

Not me.

It seems you are confused or maybe its the way i read what you wrote?


www.idahobaptist.com...

I know you are confused, I said nothing about Nazirites and don't need to be reassured about whether or not it's fine to view the Spirit as feminine.

I mentioned Nazarenes, and the so called Gospel of the Hebrews, but no Nazirites.

Sorry, you are confused.

a reply to: Raggedyman

You really need to read what it is you are commenting on, that is if you want to avoid future embarrassing mistakes like saying that I am confusing Nazirites with Nazarenes when I am not and never even mentioned Nazirites.

Although it is said that James was a Nazirite so there is more of a connection than obviously you know about, I however did not mention Nazirites prior to you.

And my usage of Nazarene was spot on, as I and every Biblically informed person on earth knows the first ''Christians", that is the real ones, were called Nazarenes.

They were later persecuted as heretics for the crime of being the real successors to the traditions of the Nazarene, and probably killed.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: SethTsaddik

God is definitely a woman. How else can you explain why women are so beautiful?

Yet Jesus talks only about his Father in heaven and NOT a word about his mother in heaven.

hmmmmmm....

Another thing of interest is the Sophia of the Christians called Gnostics by their opponents.

Considered to be the Holy Spirit, Sophia is reprentative of Wisdom and not necessarily the Mother of Christ but it makes sense why they considered the Holy Spirit or Sophia as feminine.

Because Jesus said it in the Nazarene Gospel, Wisdom is Sophia in Greek and feminine and the Odes of Solomon and Psalms were used as sources of prophecy about Sophia, and combined with the Spirit of the New Testament who also represents Wisdom and it doesn't take much thinking to connect the two.

But the Nazarenes Gospel did have Jesus calling the Spirit his Mother so what you say is not correct unless you think that the Romans had a more pure version of the Gospels than the Nazarenes, which is illogical. Augustine acknowledged Jesus saying it and said it was not offensive. I don't agree with everything he says and seems to think but he acknowledges that it was said.

originally posted by: LumenImagoDei
The word spirit is feminine in Hebrew, masculine in Latin, and neutral in Greek, those three languages are called "The Three Sacred Languages". The Holy Spirit is the whole of God ('holy' etymologically comes from the word 'whole').

Male, female; left, right; up, down; inner, outer; etc. The Holy Spirit is all of it and is the unification of God, the Male, Female and Neutral aspects of life itself.

That's interesting.

The fourth thing is always a secret, like the fourth figure of the Trinity, the daughter, making a quadrinity(?).

Y H V H all stand for one of the four, it was so in ancient times (El, Asherah, Baal, Anath) and is true again in modern Jewish thought and the Zohar.

a reply to: SethTsaddik

Well, the Bible is very much a patriarchal book. I wouldnt go as far to say that it is misogynistic (as others would), but it does prescribe a heiarch of authority for the family: First Father, then Mother, then Son. That is in fact how Jesus lived His life. He subjected Himself to the will of His heavenly Father with the help of His heavenly Mother (Holy Spirit).

Personally I do believe that men should be leaders, but when men fail to prove worthy of leadership, women should be given the opportunity. Especially in the case of Muslim women, the few that I know are very powerful, just, and stern leaders, yet kind and understanding when the situation calls for it. That is sign of a true leader.



I also want to be clear that the Bible does prohibit women from preaching. There have been female prophetesses, but prophecy is separate from preaching.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Yes, Muslim women should be given leadership opportunities, but not because men are failing because it's fair. Patriarchal supremacy is inherently misogynistic today, in times past it was the norm and still is in Islam but it is no different than Christianity when in America.

Women have all the opportunities of men in America, including the Muslim woman. I am sure at least one Muslim woman is an elected official in one state at least.

It's pretty much however it is for every other American family. Some fathers are dominant, others lenient.

But I don't believe men should be leaders. I believe qualified humans should be leaders. Unless physical strength is an issue a woman is as qualified to lead as a man. They are police and military, so I don't believe that only when men fail should women be given the opportunity.

That's just offensive.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: SethTsaddik

Well, the Bible is very much a patriarchal book. I wouldnt go as far to say that it is misogynistic (as others would), but it does prescribe a heiarch of authority for the family: First Father, then Mother, then Son. That is in fact how Jesus lived His life. He subjected Himself to the will of His heavenly Father with the help of His heavenly Mother (Holy Spirit).

Personally I do believe that men should be leaders, but when men fail to prove worthy of leadership, women should be given the opportunity. Especially in the case of Muslim women,

So men should lead but not when Muslim?

As if all male Muslims are incapable of leadership and women should take over?

Not because it's fair to women but because you think the men have failed?

That's offensive on a number of levels.

the few that I know are very powerful, just, and stern leaders, yet kind and understanding when the situation calls for it. That is sign of a true leader.

a reply to: SethTsaddik

One person's is offended by another person's way of life. Im sorry that you take offense. In my country (USA), men and women have equal Constitutional rights. I think business and political leadership should go to the one most worthy , be it woman or man. I think that is how it should be, but when it comes to my family and spiritual life, we hold to the Bible whether it offends people or not.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I was born in and have never left America, I converted to Islam and it is our country, not just yours.

I am not personally offended, but you should offend yourself for assuming that I am not American as well as saying that men "should" be leaders with the exception of when men fail which is to you Islam and all Islamic countries that you probably have never been to.

It is not equal rights for women you are asking for but the complete overthrow of patriarchy, the same patriarchy you hypocritically believe in for America.

I know what type of person that I am dealing with.

a reply to: SethTsaddik

I'm afraid you misunderstood me. I think men have failed in general (specifically in this generation and the past three). I don't think Muslim women are any more or less capable/virtuous than Muslim men. I just comment on Muslim women because the few that I know seem much stronger than the other non-Muslim women I know.

If you want to know who I really think has failed, its Christians...and I say that as a Christian. We have failed to live and let live, and to rightly divide the Word of Truth.

a reply to: SethTsaddik

What if I assumed you were American and you really weren't? You could have just as easily been offended. I say "my county", because it is where I am from? Why do you assume that I am excluding you or anyone else?

Those who are offended are offended by choice.