Sawed Off .22 Rifle

Yeah sawn off to make it concealable and usable at short range

Today's air rifles are far weaker than they were in the 70s and 80s and the old German air rifles from that period have some serious power

a reply to: Aeshma

They also make cartridge guns. It was a surprise to me.

Now assuming the guys not been in serious trouble with plod then he could of legally purchased an air pistol, ok they're meant for plunking paper targets or rats and are pretty weak but with a change to the spring etc i'd bet you could turn it into a killing machine for a lot less effort than modifying a rifle.

But i just can't help of thinking of 'big vern' from the uk viz comic

a reply to: burdman30ott6

On the street maybe.

But from regulated gun sellers here in Britain? No... not a chance, not to take home with you anyway.

a reply to: Maxatoria

Turns out his modified cartridge gun was not a killing machine.

A second bullet hole was on her right eyebrow, jurors were told. The round did not penetrate the skull and was recovered from muscle 'flattened and distorted', the doctor said. Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

The bolt-action gun had had its shoulder stock and all but 4cm of its barrel removed, Mr Horne said. This, jurors heard, would have made the now 29cm (12-inch) weapon fireable with one hand, but decreased the penetrating power of the resulting shot . . . Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Now I've done a bit of research I know sawed off rifles are sometimes used by criminals.


The propellant gasses dissipate with an extremely short barrel.

The mount of firearm ignorance in this thread is truly appalling.

a reply to: Cohen the Barbarian

Please de-ignorise us.

There is an urgent need for British people to understand what this alleged murder is all about. This forum is strictly weapons not politics. From this thread I hope to get accurate information that can be used in other forums.

a reply to: Whereismypassword

I'm well aware of the power of air rifles, I am also well aware by sawing off the barrel he seriously diminished it's potential and the damn man ruined a freaking gem.

Weirach make some of the best air guns anywhere, and those who love them would also react as I just did when seeing one butchered.

Loons do stupid things.

a reply to: Aliensun

The austrian army fielded letal air guns in.46 caliber in the 1780s... 30 shots from a full air reservoir, each rifle carried 20 lead shots in a built in magazine. Each soldier carried 3 air reservoirs and 100 shot. Effective out to 125 yards. Roman empire used these as well.

Extremely high technology for the time. Not only could you shoot 20 shots sith out stopping to reload, but there was no muzzle flash. No clouds of smoke to obscure vision but also much less noise.

Fire arms were cheaper and easier to produce, or we all would have been using air guns.

originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: Cohen the Barbarian

Please de-ignorise us.

There is an urgent need for British people to understand what this alleged murder is all about. This forum is strictly weapons not politics. From this thread I hope to get accurate information that can be used in other forums.

FWIW, my comment was not intended to be political. It was a comment on several posts in this thread that showed the poster(s) were not as familiar with firearms (or air rifles) as they would like readers to believe. Usually a quick search on Google could help them make more intelligent comments, but that's too much work. I can't help but think of the old saw, "Better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

Since I live in a relatively free country, my knowledge of British gun laws is very limited. Better to learn from British gun owners what travails they have to endure.

a reply to: Cohen the Barbarian

I meant I have to be careful not to follow a political angle here.

I didn't even search sawed off .22 before starting this thread. Now I know they are a fairly common criminals gun in the UK and Australia, whereas in this thread the only person who's seen one says it belonged to a kid and they fired it underwater. A bit of research shows people who ask 'Should I buy a cheap .22 and cut it down for use on a trap line' are told, 'Don't be silly, buy a pistol if that's what you want'. Using a sawed-off seems to be usually because rifles and shotguns are so much easier to find in the UK and Australia.

I'm waiting for the police to give some indication of where the gun came from. Probably stolen, therefore usable as anti-hunting propaganda, but that's for another forum.

I hunted with Weihrauch airguns for years and I never knew they made cartridge guns as well. As you say, a quick google search works.


Edit to add.
If I can dare to stray a little bit, choosing a Weihrauch brings in the airgun associations. The story behind this gun is far to perfect to be true.

originally posted by: Nickn3
You should see what's in my truck. Most Brits would have an orgasm just from looking in the gun rack.

You really are unbelievably ignorant about cultures that don't fall into your own stereotypical formula aren't you? Maybe you should get out a bit more and spend some time with Brits before making statements like this.

a reply to: Imagewerx

The feral pigs foolishly introduced under the fanciful notion of Rewilded Wild Boar are reproducing rapidly. Everywhere else in the world where this has happened it's been an ecological disaster.

I love the intelligent and playful feral pigs that are eating their way through the chanterelles and dormice in the Forest of Dean. Having studied the recent population growth and damage first hand I know there is a need for more trained shooters for the sake of the entire ecology in the area. Some of these shooters will be more enthusiastic about the tools than others. Just as with motorbikes, cars, electric guitars or whatever. Some Brits would love his gun rack.

We have a gun culture with all its variants, as you would expect in an area where many predators have been wiped out and the whole system is grossly unbalanced.

a reply to: Nickn3

So am I. Everyone around here has military firearms, and on some occasions, explosives if they have a FEL.

Idk. I think he'd have been better off with a printed Liberator, but then again, it wasn't a failed assassination.

This particular weapon was a legally owned rifle which was stolen and sold on the street. It was a Weirharuch but not an air rifle, it was a .22lr, probably a HW66. It was stolen along with ammo from a car last year.

As has been stated, firearm ownership is difficult in the UK, but far from impossible. An interesting fact is that shooting is a more common recreational past time in the UK than fishing, and there are roughly 2 million legally owned guns in the UK, (4 of which are mine!). A drop in the ocean compared to the US count of 300 million I know, but not bad when you consider the joops we have to jump through and the population is 1/5 that of the US.

For the pic in the OP it's a Mossberg 801 half pint plinkster, the mag gives it away.

a reply to: PaddyInf

www.keighleyonline.co.uk...

Police believe he may have only made his plan to attack Mrs Cox . . . after he took possession of the rifle he used to shoot her.

www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk...

Det Supt Wallen said it was still unclear why Mair chose Mrs Cox as a target or whether he was planning a “spectacular” by killing others as he re-loaded the weapon and headed away from the centre of Birstall.
. . .
attempts to trace where Mair obtained the dagger, including checking with many military supplies outlets, had so far been unsuccessful.

It's as clear as mud. Gun stolen first from a vehicle in Keighley. Thought to have been sawed off then passed to the loner. Loner then formulated a plan to match. Possibly planning more murders judging by the amount of ammo he took with him. No known source for his dagger. 'Ferocious gangs' not unknown in Keighley.
www.keighleynews.co.uk...

. . . Azam was part of a “ferocious” gang which plotted the murder of security guard Qadir Ahmed, from Keighley.

It's over thirty five years since I was offered an unlicensed .22, and that was only because the owner was moving back to his home country and wanted to sell his illegally held hunting rifle. It's a terrible coincidence for the loner to receive a stolen .22 in time for a Brexit related killing. Every detail seems scripted.

originally posted by: hillbilly4rent
For the pic in the OP it's a Mossberg 801 half pint plinkster, the mag gives it away.

Definitely a HW66. There are much better close up shots of the right side of the weapon if you google Jo Cox murder weapon.

Take a look at the a close up of the bolt. The bolt handle is the same, the profile is identical and it has the same indicator (red dot on right side of bolt). The action on the Mossberg is completely different.

There are probably plenty of shotguns and rifles that stayed underground when the laws were changed - the biggest and most stringent change happened with the outright banning of handguns (with powder'n'lead bullets).

Anyone could find one and some ammo in an old attic that hasnt been touched in many decades, forgotten about.

I found some 22 rounds in my grandfathers house that my uncle used in his 22 rifle when he was a kid (hes 60 somthing now). Course i did what any kid would do with a few loose bullets, emptied out the powder and made a few firecrackers.

This looks like the rifle type that my uncle would have had as a kid and its entirely possible the person who used it found it in the way i found some old ammo, sold it (cut or not) by word of mouth *or whatever* till it ended up in the hands of someone who would use it for criminal stuff like this.

When the gun laws came in a great many people handed their weapons in to be cut up/melted down. I remeber my grandfather had to hand his over as he didnt have the newly required license. Though he could have applied for one easily - he simply no longer used the shotguns to get rid of the pests infesting the surrounding lands. This is a cottage in the middle of no where, he was a farmer. If he were of the illegal sort he could have claimed they broke and threw them away or whatever, would have been easy enough to do. As it turned out for him, the local copper lived just a mile up the valley so he just handed them over to him.

This is just a weapon of opportunity, converted for a close quarters alternative to a knife, the user probably had no idea of the actual potential 'deadly-ness' of it. Pretty sure the sawn-off firearm of choice is the shotgun because of its short range side area of effect, that 22 LR sawn off would have literally no accuracy out side of ten feet if that. Plus it looks totally stupid, but im guessing the user didnt have the luxury of a gun shop to chose from!

a reply to: PaddyInf

You are right I went back and looked. Thanks for the correction 👍