Aluminum: New factor in the decline of bee populations?

Well, it is easy to see that bees have declined a lot in nature. Something is causing the numbers to drop and it is definitely a man made problem. It is unnatural chemistry of various kinds or even a mixing of a couple of chemistries that we have added to the environment that is leading to the decline.

They are arguing over who is causing it, they know it is happening but "legally" they have to prove who's chemicals are doing it.

They need to Just fix the problem, they will spend five years in court with these chemical companies and all the bees will be gone. They are pretty sure what is causing it, shifting our focus to aluminum just gives the pesticide and herbicide companies more time to reap profits. Number one thing is get rid of the extensive use of pesticides and herbicides. The GMO companies making crops handle these things better means they can use more of these things that harm our environment. Herbicides like roundup also are pesticides and miticides. They are classified as herbicides to keep us from looking at the whole picture. If chemicals have two properties they should be classified as both. I see that some food colorings are strong antimicrobials but they do not need to be classified as such. Some food colorings have active methyls on them which would not be allowed if classified as a otc medicine without reference to their content.

They have been lying to us for years, the information is available but not that easy to find and evaluate by the regular person. It takes a lot of research to figure things out properly, I have time.

originally posted by: elementalgrove

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: elementalgrove

dying bee population is a very serious thing. it needs to be given the right amount of attention. Lumping in with chemtrails is not the way to do that. First off, Geo-engineering that you speak of, is not something that would look like contrails, it's proposed height to be sprayed is above the area planes usually fly, and above the area for contrail formation. So if they were spraying something, you wouldn't see it.

Is this registering at all? It seems anytime I try to explain this to a believer, there is no discussion, other than I must be a paid shill. These are facts about this subject that matter a great deal when you being up trails. Why, because if they really are spraying, then looking at contrails doesn't tell you anything. If you want to push this agenda, that's great, but please, get some real factual education on the subject so a real discussion can be had.

I get way your are saying Network and I do not think that you are a paid shill.

The phenomena of "contrails" that create checkerboard grids across the sky is something that no one remembers from their childhood. The world began noticing this about 15-20 years ago. Perhaps what they have taught the public about geoengineering is not how they are actually implementing it.

Perhaps they decided to add it to the "contrails" (creating persistent contrails) of certain planes that fly low and could be masked as normal traffic.

Who is to say that we have any idea what the Black Projects aspect of "Controlling the Weather in 2025" has actually ben up to?

Rather than go down the "perhaps" road, why don't we do something productive and actually look at factual things that help explain all this. If we find something in all that, then we can investigate something real. If you want an exercise in futility, I suggest you stick to the chemtrail thing.

None of us KNOW about any black projects or secret operations, so nobody can say for certain that they aren't spraying us. But what do know for absolute certain, (complete and verifiable fact) is that contrails are normal. The amount of contrails we see is expected. The increase on contrails is due to the increase in air traffic. Again, all this is verifiable and can be proven beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Now, knowing all that, we still have a problem with bees dying off. If it's increased aluminum, we need to find the source. Taking rain samples is silly. Unless you are looking for what might be blowing in the wind. Because that is what you will get from rain samples.

We already know that the Earth's crust is about 7% aluminum, just by nature.

Aluminum is the most abundant metal in the earth's crust. It makes up about 7% of the mass (essentially the weight) of the earths crust. If you apply this number to an acre of soil 6 2/3 inches deep (2 million pounds of soil), that 7% "Total Al" would equal about 140,000 lb Al/acre or 70,000 ppm. Those of us involved in producing plants, whether those plants are agricultural, turf, or ornamental, should understand how Al can affect these plants.

www.spectrumanalytic.com...

But aluminum has always been here, long before we were, and long before bees were bees. So what changed? Well, before we go looking for something that may not be a factor, we first have to identify if it's the aluminum that's the culprit. I have heard cell towers might be a factor as well. Knowing when they came on scene, and when the bee population started to decline, I'd say that is a much better direction to look. But I am no scientist, just a computer nerd.

I really hope we can have logical discussions on this topic. It's been one I have been interested in for a while now, and even if we find that some secret spray op has been going on, I am all for the truth, whatever that might be. But to date, the facts sure point to something else.

What other causes have you heard thrown around for the bee decline?

originally posted by: VinylTyrant
a reply to: elementalgrove

I agree wholeheartedly.
I'm no expert on the topic so I ask why some contrails fade very quickly while some, like grove points out, seem to stay for hours be for any dissipation is seen?
Also a good point made is the possibility of adding elements to normal exhaust contrails who is to say that's not been done?

If you really want a factual answer, I can help, but if you just want the conspiracy side, I won't waste the time, please clarify your question.

a reply to: network dude

I very much so appreciate your perspective Network, you are clearly well researched and I will enjoy engaging in a discussion about this.

First you have stated that contrails are normal and that the amount of contrails have grown due to increased air traffic. I am in complete agreement with you here. I remember watching planes flying when I was younger and asking what that trail behind them was. It was explained to me then that they were contrails, simply due to the methods of flight we amazing humans have come up with! Truly a humbling situation ripe with wonder and awe, mind you they dissipated quite quickly.

Throughout my childhood, I never, not once witnessed a persistent contrail. Even into my adolescence still no persistent trails that literally spread across the sky slowly and suspiciously all day. Turning a previous clear blue sky into a hazy maze that changed the entire vibe of the environment.

As I have grown older and researched the horrific system of corporate/government/elitists collusion that has led to the deliberate destruction of the environment, water, food, and air, I have become deeply suspicious of what I am told. As I was learning about all of this, I began to notice these trails and it seemed completely abnormal. My intuition kicked in, much like my rejection of fluoride and GMO's, I began questioning what is happening up there.

Then you find out about weather manipulation and the whole host of disgusting experiments the interests I previously listed are behind and I can not help but disregard "scientific" fact. Facts have a way of becoming dogmatic given the kind of control of information that exists amongst the control system.

Fluoride is a great example. The societal disregard of Hemp/Cannabis is another. Mercury amalgams/Root canals another.

Prior to taking a look at aluminum, the main causes of CCD that I looked into goes straight into the heart of the trio I listed in the form of DOW, DUPONT, and MONSANTO and their toxic herbicides and pesticides.

You mention cell towers and I think you may be on to something their as well, we live in a very delicate eco-system and vibration and frequency effect our material world far more than people realize.

Speaking of that HAARP is another one of the research projects I think we barely understand 1% of what they were actually researching. When everything these people do is top secret or above level intelligence how could anyone possibly hope to find any "facts" other than what they put out there for people to know?

Compartmentalized information is the name of the game and I also believe this extends into the college education system, thereby people pay for an education in their misinfo and this is then peddled globally as fact, again Fluoride as an example.

I know that for most people intuition is some kind of hooey, but it is something that has taught me far more than words could ever describe and those trails in the sky have an ominous feel to them.

"The only real valuable thing is intuition." Einstein

a reply to: elementalgrove

The phenomena of "contrails" that create checkerboard grids across the sky is something that no one remembers from their childhood. The world began noticing this about 15-20 years ago.

A few questions you might want find answers to that might indicate why people notice more contrails.

15-20 years ago what was the population of any given location where these checkerboards grids are witnessed compared to now? which leads to

15-20 years ago, how many flights were there flying over any given location compared to now?

15-20 years ago, was the engineering the same as it is now in aircraft engines?


Its easy to say well in the past it wasn't like this therefore.........


Many that delve into the chemtrail conspiracy do so and fail to ask and find answers to simple question that will most likely answer why things are different now compared to many years ago.

a reply to: rickymouse

They are arguing over who is causing it, they know it is happening but "legally" they have to prove who's chemicals are doing it.

They need to Just fix the problem, they will spend five years in court with these chemical companies and all the bees will be gone.

Precisely, this indicates that whoever "they" are they are genocidal maniacs, considering the sheer level of insanity it would take to allow this to happen, not just allow, but to literally conspire to make it this way.

There is only one group that I could think would find any kind of benefit to this and they are those seeking complete control who also have a nasty notion of over-population and perhaps they have convinced themselves this is 'necessary".

From hearing them talk it sounds like this could very easily be the case for most of the horrendous situations we see when we look around the world.

“The earth is not dying, it is being killed, and those who are killing it have names and addresses.” Utah Phillips

a reply to: network dude

I asked two, if they're not seriously worded, I'm not sure how to correct that.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

If it is simply because of an increase in airplane traffic, which has now become the norm, how is it that we can be in the same place, day after day where steady traffic happens and persistent contrails are always happening, how is it possible that we ever have clear skies?

You can literally watch the planes change the weather.

The planes that saw as with many people from around the globe, never had the effect of doing that until relatively recently.

Have you not noticed that everything is far more toxic now, then 15-20 years ago... this should be an indication of why there may be something to this theory.

a reply to: elementalgrove

If you want to know why bees are disapearing take a good long hard look at this fellow .



en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: hutch622

Ah so it is exclusively this mite and no other influences?

Nice! We should start dumping more chemicals and metals into the environment, we gots a free pass!

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: elementalgrove

If you want to know why bees are disapearing take a good long hard look at this fellow .

en.wikipedia.org...

But if it is this parasite, what new factors are causing this parasite to spread differently today than in the past?

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: network dude

I very much so appreciate your perspective Network, you are clearly well researched and I will enjoy engaging in a discussion about this.

First you have stated that contrails are normal and that the amount of contrails have grown due to increased air traffic. I am in complete agreement with you here. I remember watching planes flying when I was younger and asking what that trail behind them was. It was explained to me then that they were contrails, simply due to the methods of flight we amazing humans have come up with! Truly a humbling situation ripe with wonder and awe, mind you they dissipated quite quickly.

Throughout my childhood, I never, not once witnessed a persistent contrail. Even into my adolescence still no persistent trails that literally spread across the sky slowly and suspiciously all day. Turning a previous clear blue sky into a hazy maze that changed the entire vibe of the environment.

I am 47. In the early 1970's, I can remember seeing some planes leaving long lingering trails, and some leaving short trails that went away quickly. I remember it becasue it was always a question I had, and would ask various people to find an answer. It wasn't until the 1990's when I was in the USAF that I found a good answer. Back then there was no internet, and if you wanted to know something, you had to go the library and research it. I was kind of lazy, so that much effort just wasn't going to happen, unless I had to do it. I chose to just ask folks.

Now, knowing that I had that experience, and you couple that with the photographic proof that persistent contrails did in fact exist then and before, it's fairly safe to assume either your memory might not be as good as you think, or you just happened to live in an area like the tropics that just didn't have the air for persistent trails. here is the link to old photos proving what I am saying.

contrailscience.com...

This one is from 1963

As I have grown older and researched the horrific system of corporate/government/elitists collusion that has led to the deliberate destruction of the environment, water, food, and air, I have become deeply suspicious of what I am told. As I was learning about all of this, I began to notice these trails and it seemed completely abnormal. My intuition kicked in, much like my rejection of fluoride and GMO's, I began questioning what is happening up there.

Then you find out about weather manipulation and the whole host of disgusting experiments the interests I previously listed are behind and I can not help but disregard "scientific" fact. Facts have a way of becoming dogmatic given the kind of control of information that exists amongst the control system.

Fluoride is a great example. The societal disregard of Hemp/Cannabis is another. Mercury amalgams/Root canals another.

Prior to taking a look at aluminum, the main causes of CCD that I looked into goes straight into the heart of the trio I listed in the form of DOW, DUPONT, and MONSANTO and their toxic herbicides and pesticides.

You mention cell towers and I think you may be on to something their as well, we live in a very delicate eco-system and vibration and frequency effect our material world far more than people realize.

Chemicals used in farming and general agriculture are another perfect suspect for this. It doesn't need to be something nefarious, just wrong. And if it's a common element used in these chemicals, I can see how and why "they" would fight against anyone finding out. (greed) I would also hope that someone involved might have a tiny bit of humanity and not allow this to remain secret. But that is just a hope I have, should that part be a reality and not just an assumption

Speaking of that HAARP is another one of the research projects I think we barely understand 1% of what they were actually researching. When everything these people do is top secret or above level intelligence how could anyone possibly hope to find any "facts" other than what they put out there for people to know?

Compartmentalized information is the name of the game and I also believe this extends into the college education system, thereby people pay for an education in their misinfo and this is then peddled globally as fact, again Fluoride as an example.

I know that for most people intuition is some kind of hooey, but it is something that has taught me far more than words could ever describe and those trails in the sky have an ominous feel to them.

"The only real valuable thing is intuition." Einstein

OK, HAARP is not a factor. The entire facility was given to the University of Alaska in Fairbanks. If there was anything nefarious there, it would have been exposed. If you doubt that in any way, you can take some classes and operate the facility yourself. It's an option. I think as with anything the public doesn't know, it's easy to just assign blame to thing based on fear and ignorance. It's what we do.

Removing the things that don't fit is a key part of looking at something like this. Once you find something that you can't dismiss, it requires more scrutiny. Like cell towers, pesticides, or even global warming. (I am not 100% convinced that the current warming is not part of a cycle of the Earth, but regardless, it is happening and it is verifiable.)

So please, if you find something I mentioned you disagree with, tell me. I have formed these opinions over the years of studying this and if they are wrong, I really need to know. I am not trying to convince you chemtrails don't exist, but rather hoping that people will focus on finding why the bee population is declining.

a reply to: elementalgrove

If it is simply because of an increase in airplane traffic,

Its not, but the increase in traffic is 1 key factor.

how is it that we can be in the same place, day after day where steady traffic happens and persistent contrails are always happening, how is it possible that we ever have clear skies?

the answer lies in the questions of why do contrails form, why do they linger when other times they dissipate quickly?

Have you not noticed that everything is far more toxic now, then 15-20 years ago... this should be an indication of why there may be something to this theory.

Yes, there are far more logical things to look at to get answers as for why.

Ground level pollution, how and what processes of manufacturing are used to create many things used daily by us humans, like food and cosmetics.

The planes that saw as with many people from around the globe, never had the effect of doing that until relatively recently.

Which will be answered if one can put 2 and 2 together after researching the 3 points I mentioned about comparing things from now to 20 years ago.

a reply to: elementalgrove

I would assume the chemical and metals being dumped in the rest of the world are similar to the rates in Australia . We have plenty of bees , in fact we export them .Oh and we dont have bee mite . Funny that eh . And please show me where i said the mite is the only reason for their demise .

It may be a contributing factor to colony collapse disorder, as research shows it is the main factor for collapsed colonies in Ontario, Canada[1] and the United States.

originally posted by: elementalgrove

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: elementalgrove

Ho come you ignore this from the paper?

Human activities such as the burning of fossil fuels resulting in ‘acid rain’, intensive agriculture producing acid sulphate soils and the mining of aluminium ores to make aluminium metal and salts have all contributed to the burgeoning biological availability of this non-essential metal

And instead make up your own explanation blaming chemtrails?

Did not ignore it Chadwickus, simply expanded the presence of high amounts of Aluminum found in the environment being potentially linked to the notion of geoengineering.

Why would you think that is not possible?

Did you notice the rain sample from Sacramento?

Aluminum was found at almost 100 times reporting limits – an astonishing 4,700μg/L – in Sacramento rain collected May 5th, 2016. Lisa DeFinis writes “This sample was collected on 5/5/16 at approximately 10AM in Sacramento, CA, by the airport. We had just suffered 2 days of extremely heavy spraying and it was raining and hailing at the time. I collected it in a sterile cup that I had purchased for this.”

How can you tell that the aluminum in that sample came from an airplane spraying "chemtrails" for the purpose of geoengineering?

Maybe it is NOT from intentional geoengineering, and is instead industrial waste that came out of the smokestack of a factory.

Besides, planes coming and going from an airport are not producing the visible white trails trails that are said by some to be "chemtrails" near that airport. Those visible trails are produced from higher flying planes rather than the lower-altitude planes that have just taken off from, or arriving at, and airport. I suppose the jet exhaust would be polluting the ground near an airport, but that's pollution -- and while pollution (from planes, cars, factories, etc.) is certainly a problem itself, it is NOT geoengineering.

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: InhaleExhale

If it is simply because of an increase in airplane traffic, which has now become the norm, how is it that we can be in the same place, day after day where steady traffic happens and persistent contrails are always happening, how is it possible that we ever have clear skies?

You can literally watch the planes change the weather.

The planes that saw as with many people from around the globe, never had the effect of doing that until relatively recently.

Have you not noticed that everything is far more toxic now, then 15-20 years ago... this should be an indication of why there may be something to this theory.

this will kill 2 birds with 1 stone. for you and VinylTyrant:

What are contrails?
Contrails are clouds formed when water vapor condenses and freezes around small particles (aerosols) that exist in aircraft exhaust. Some of that water vapor comes from the air around the plane; and, some is added by the exhaust of the aircraft. The exhaust of an aircraft contains both gas (vapor) and solid particles. Both of these are important in the formation of contrails. Some elements of the exhaust gasses are not involved in contrail formation but do constitute air pollution. Emissions include carbon dioxide, water vapor, nitrogen oxides (NOx), carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons such as methane, sulfates (SOx), and soot and metal particles.
Are there different types of contrails?
Contrails are all made of the same materials and are formed in the same way, but exist for different lengths of time. Because of the differences in contrail "life-spans", contrails can be divided into three groups: short-lived, persistent (non-spreading), and persistent spreading. See the Contrail Formation Guide [PDF] for more information on how contrails form or download a presentation [PDF] to learn how to "read" they sky. Example of Short Lived Contrails Short-lived contrails look like short white lines following along behind the plane, disappearing almost as fast as the airplane goes across the sky, perhaps lasting only a few minutes or less. The air that the airplane is passing through is somewhat moist, and there is only a small amount of water vapor available to form a contrail. The ice particles that do form quickly return again to a vapor state. Example of Persistent (non-spreading) contrails Persistent (non-spreading) contrails look like long white lines that remain visible after the airplane has disappeared. This shows that the air where the airplane is flying is quite humid, and there is a large amount of water vapor available to form a contrail. Persistent contrails can be further divided into two classes: those that spread and those that don't. Persistent contrails look like long, narrow white pencil-lines across the sky. Example of Persistent Spreading contrails Persistent spreading contrails look like long, broad, fuzzy white lines. This is the type most likely to affect climate because they cover a larger area and last longer than short-lived or persistent contrails. Contrail cousins are things that look like contrails but actually arise from a different physical process. For example, under the right conditions you will see vapor trails form from the wingtips of a jet on takeoff or landing. This phenomenon results from a decrease in pressure and temperature in the wingtip vortex. If conditions are right, liquid water drops form inside the vortex and make it visible. These evaporate very quickly after they form.
Can contrails move, or do they stay in the location where they were formed?
Because contrails are formed at high altitudes where the winds are usually very strong, they will move away from the area where they originated. Often, when we look up into the sky, we will see old persistent contrails that formed far away but moved overhead because of the wind.
How are contrails different from other clouds?
Contrails are "human-induced" clouds since they are formed by water vapor condensing and freezing on particles from airplane exhaust. Contrails are always made of ice particles, due to the very cold temperatures at high altitude. Other types of clouds can be formed by water vapor that condenses on particles which are present in the atmosphere due to many sources, such as from volcanoes or dust storms, not specifically from aircraft exhaust. Those clouds are sometimes made of water droplets, and sometimes ice crystals, depending on the temperature where they form. Contrails only form at very high altitudes (usually above 8 km) where the air is extremely cold (less than -40 degrees C). Other clouds can form at a range of altitudes, from very close to the ground, such as fog, to very high off the ground, such as cirrus clouds.
When were contrails first observed?
Contrails were first noticed during high-altitude flights in the 1920's. However, interest in contrails really blossomed during WWII when bombers could be sighted from miles away. In fact, numerous WWII veteran accounts tell of problems to aviation due to massive contrail formations. Planes could not find their targets, and sometimes collided with each other. In 1953, a scientist named H. Appleman published a chart that can be used to determine when a jet airplane would or would not produce a contrail.

science-edu.larc.nasa.gov...

The above explains contrails, and the conditions that explain them. There is also the introduction of the High Bypass engine, used on Jet airliners today. Much like having a newer more efficient car engine, these engines produce much more thrust per pound of fuel then older engines, so they are exactly what we need to help reduce pollution. Sadly, these engines still do pollute, they just do a bit less than older ones did. But, one aspect is that they are more prone to make a trial, where older engines would not.
contrailscience.com...

If you need any clarification, please ask, if you disagree, please explain why. I won't be mean or aggressive, I promise.

originally posted by: Box of Rain

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: elementalgrove

If you want to know why bees are disapearing take a good long hard look at this fellow .

en.wikipedia.org...

But if it is this parasite, what new factors are causing this parasite to spread differently today than in the past?

exactly what needs to be looked at. things like this.

a reply to: network dude

This mite has spread constantly since the 1960s and it might only be a matter of time before it lobs in Australia . It certainly is a better reason for their demise than contrails , chemicals , yes that certainly could be a reason for their demise as well .



Early 1940s

a reply to: hutch622

is there any theories as to how this mite came to be and why it's spreading like it is? I honestly know noting about it.

network dude

I completely agree that chem trails have changed throughout the years. My uncle who was an lifetime Delta Airline pilot sees the difference too.

As a kid (no siblings) living in the country with not much to do, I spent many days laying on my back in the lawn or swing set watching the trails behind the planes. This is coming for a kid with model airplanes, with airplane wallpaper and magazines all over. To say the least I loved aviation. the trails lasted no longer than a few minuets, disappearing right away.

These new trail over the past decade are very different. They take a beautifully clear sunny day and turns it hazzy.

Here is the order of events:

1)Clear day
2)A few Massive white streaks show up, very thin lines, but crazy long (horizon to Horizon).
3)the trails start expanding uniformly, and begin to look like cloud formation
4)the clear sunny day is now a haze of fog and new solid streaks created by additional trails.

ALSO at night i am seeing them.

On a clear night while looking for shooting stars ( a few times a year my girlfriend and I stargaze ) we are beginning to see the chem trails filling the night-sky and blocking STARS! this is ridiculous and everyone who refuses to see this taking place above us either just decides not to believe it, or does not remember the transition from regular contrails to chem trails, even though it obvious for others.