Broken system: Hillary won the popular vote but lost the election...

This is the United STATES of America, not the United PEOPLE of America. It's not all about you. I know that's hard to take because you think you're so important, but that's the way it is. Lots of people are under the mistaken impression that the Electoral College was put in place to "protect slavery." That's not true at all. It was the exact opposite. When the original 13 colonies decided to band together the southern slave-holding states dominated the landscape both in terms of land area and population. Virginia was HUGE and, in fact, for the first 50 years most every President came from Virginia.

But it was the NORTHERN states that were small with small populations: Delaware, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Vermont, New Jersey, Massachusetts. Compared to southern states they are all TINY, so they are the ones who lobbied for a Senate where every state was equally represented, and in matters of voting, was the same size. The House was left to be "The People's House" based solely on population.

In real-life terms what this means is that the presidential campaign must take into consideration ALL states because any one of them could turn out to be a decisive one in terms of the Electoral College vote. If this were NOT The case the candidates could concentrate on both coasts and ignore most of the country. But as it stands the Electoral College gives a very slight advantage to the less populous and smaller states. Look at the Electoral College Map for this election. It's available nearly everywhere. What you see is a mass of red states all across the country with a smattering of blue on the West Coast plus Nevada, Colorado, and New Mexico, and the northeast plus Virginia, Minnesota, and Illinois. That's all. 20 states are blue; 30 states are red. And most of the really tiny sates that the Electoral College was designed to help? They're all blue.

The United States was set up as a Republic ("What have you given us?" "A Republic, madam, if you can keep it."--Benjamin Franklin), not a "Democracy," where you suffer under the illusion that all voters are equal, when half of them are stupid and easily led, as every election shows. "Democracy" is Mob Rule, two wolves and a sheep voting for what is for dinner. God save us from that. The Electoral College was set up to provide for a majority of people AND STATES to elect the President with as broad a mandate as possible from the entire United States--not just the population of a minority of states on both coasts.

originally posted by: Ignorantamericans
People can speak all the rhetoric they want and make all the excuses and justifications they want but when more Americans vote for a certain candidate and that candidate loses then we have a broken system, a non-democratic country and an illusion of democracy.

We are a representative republic, and you do realize that all our representatives (except the President) 'are' elected by direct popular vote, so democracy is alive and well within our republic.

We force other countries into democracy and we shout out to the world how America is the epitome of democracy

And we are, and we need to stop being the world police.

but yet our greatest and highest held office can be won thru a process that is completely undemocratic,

Because to President represents 'the whole' country not just the large population centers.

the person with the most votes wins, it's how everything else in our political system works so there's no excuse, just a bunch of rhetoric and weak justifications.

Please see above as to why you are wrong.

originally posted by: LockNLoad
We are a representative republic, and you do realize that all our representatives (except the President) 'are' elected by direct popular vote, so democracy is alive and well within our republic.
Please see above as to why you are wrong.

The 'representatives' do not have to vote with the public choice, and have gone against it like 80 times.

a reply to: gladtobehere

It is not a democracy. It is a constitutional, representative Republic.

a reply to: imjack

And that has what to do with what I stated???

2nd

a reply to: schuyler

Then we should quit champion ourself America as the great democracy, that's all that's my point but no one seems to quite grasp that, we shouldn't be hypocrites and champion ourself as the ultimate democracy

originally posted by: LockNLoad
a reply to: imjack

And that has what to do with what I stated???

2nd

An individual electing a state worth of electorate votes isn't democracy. Expressing the fact this single person can override the entire state vote is not democracy.

You're trying to call our Presidential Election Democratic based on different elections. What does what you said even have to do with what you said?

What about the fact population electorates are unequal? Hillary won the popular vote. Trump won because of squiggly lines and disproportionate votes distributed to those populations. If the USA was 1 state, Hillary would have won correct?

a reply to: LockNLoad

Your only seeing one post your missing the other dozen or so. But you only furthered my point, every aspect of American politics is decided by popular vote true democracy. An sorry but no democracy is not alive and well in America. Presidential election is not democracy, it's some twisted form made to benefit certain people and made to be manipulated and abused when needed

a reply to: schuyler

You say that would cause "mob rule" but if that's the case the. Would people in states just be passing whatever laws they wanted passing crazy laws because popular votes would matter. But that's not the fact and that doesn't happen, so saying a real democracy would cause mob rule is only a assumption based on zero examples because we have never had a presidential election based on popular vote so you can't say that would be the result because there is no basis for that result

a reply to: schuyler

You say that would cause "mob rule" but if that's the case the. Would people in states just be passing whatever laws they wanted passing crazy laws because popular votes would matter. But that's not the fact and that doesn't happen, so saying a real democracy would cause mob rule is only a assumption based on zero examples because we have never had a presidential election based on popular vote so you can't say that would be the result because there is no basis for that result

originally posted by: Ignorantamericans
a reply to: LockNLoad

Your only seeing one post your missing the other dozen or so. But you only furthered my point, every aspect of American politics is decided by popular vote true democracy. An sorry but no democracy is not alive and well in America. Presidential election is not democracy, it's some twisted form made to benefit certain people and made to be manipulated and abused when needed

Every other popular vote exists that way because those representatives are direct. The President doesn't represent you directly. He or she represents the Federal Government.

Your representation comes from the States.


It's quite simple, actually.

I'm sorry you're having a hard time understanding this.

*Edit, I'm not sure your username falls under the TC of the site. Or, if it does, can I change my username to IgnorantMexicans?

originally posted by: imjack


An individual electing a state worth of electorate votes isn't democracy. Expressing the fact this single person can override the entire state vote is not democracy.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, unless you are trying to say that an individual 'elector' can override an entire State's vote???

You're trying to call our Presidential Election Democratic based on different elections. What does what you said even have to do with what you said?

No I specifically pointed out that the President is 'not' elected by popular vote ("our representatives (except the President) 'are' elected by direct popular vote")

What about the fact population electorates are unequal? Hillary won the popular vote. Trump won because of squiggly lines and disproportionate votes distributed to those populations.

The electoral amounts are determined by House of Representatives totals and Senators per State 1 to 1 and the HoR is based on population amounts and there are 2 Senators per State. How is this not fair???

If the USA was 1 state, Hillary would have won correct?

The USA is not one State and that is the point. The Electoral College equally represents ALL States.

originally posted by: Ignorantamericans
a reply to: LockNLoad

Your only seeing one post your missing the other dozen or so. But you only furthered my point, every aspect of American politics is decided by popular vote true democracy. An sorry but no democracy is not alive and well in America.

Again you are completely wrong, every aspect of our selecting our representatives is by direct popular vote, this allows the citizen of the various 'states' to elect people that represent their personal values/outlooks to represent them on a national level.

Presidential election is not democracy, it's some twisted form made to benefit certain people and made to be manipulated and abused when needed

Correct the Presidential election is not decided by direct popular vote, because the President is the representative of the United States as a whole, and again... if the Presidency was determined by direct popular vote that would allow only the higher population centers to be represented on the notional/world stage, and disenfranchise a large portion of the citizenry.

Whats wrong with all you hillary supporters? Have you really not looked into all the corruptness/deaths/rapes the clintons are attached too? If anything god was looking over us and helped us on this one.

This 2016 electoral map shows how large population centers (but smaller representative areas) could dominate the larger representative areas in a direct popular vote.

Again the Electoral College gives an equal voice to the lower population centers/States.

Mob rule is what Hitler had. Hitlary lost with the (Popular) mob rule vote. The rest of us that truly understand the American system of Presidential Elections are thankful we have the system we have. Otherwise a hand full of whack job Nazi type zealots would have buried America long ago.

originally posted by: gladtobehere
The New York Times: www.nytimes.com...

Google: www.google.com...=enn/p//0/0///////////

NPR: www.npr.org...

I havent checked the other sites but I would imagine that they too have the same results.

Hillary won the popular vote but lost the election...

Hillary's 59,323,520 votes (47.7%) to Trump's 59,152,992 votes (47.5%)

Its the year 2000 and a Bush victory all over again.

If in-fact we live in a democracy or the illusion of one, then the person with the most votes has to be the winner.

It is not a democracy when a handful of select individuals (the electoral college), determine the outcome of an election.

Well let's subtract the illegals that aren't citizens but are allowed to vote and take at least a million away....easily 300K.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: gladtobehere
The New York Times: www.nytimes.com...

Google: www.google.com...=enn/p//0/0///////////

NPR: www.npr.org...

I havent checked the other sites but I would imagine that they too have the same results.

Hillary won the popular vote but lost the election...

Hillary's 59,323,520 votes (47.7%) to Trump's 59,152,992 votes (47.5%)

Its the year 2000 and a Bush victory all over again.

If in-fact we live in a democracy or the illusion of one, then the person with the most votes has to be the winner.

It is not a democracy when a handful of select individuals (the electoral college), determine the outcome of an election.

Well let's subtract the illegals that aren't citizens but are allowed to vote and take at least a million away....easily 300K.

I wasn't going to bring up the reports of vote failures that somehow surprisingly were only against Trump.....but good point he won in spite of that and still almost took the popular vote too....good thing lots of people were watching and caught those "glitches"

a reply to: gladtobehere

First of all I highly doubt the numbers are right. We have seen in the wikileaks that the DNC tried everything in their power, including illegal tactics, to try to win. We have seen how Hillary rallies were either half empty, even indoors, or they had to concentrate mainly on indoor rallies because Hillary would not get enough people/voters to attend her rallies. But Trump always had full rallies, including outdoors.

So there is no way on Earth that she could have won the popular vote without rigging the results. The problem is the DNC didn't count with so many Americans going out to vote. Even CNNE(Spanish) reporter Gustavo Valdez had to admit that they were seeing even more HIspanic voters in favor of Trump at the events, than in favor of Clinton despite claims from CNN and the leftwing media that us, Hispanics would vote for her.

Apart from that the founding fathers of the United States knew that direct democracy simply leads to "rule by the mob". This country wasn't founded on direct democracy. Instead the electoral college is taken in consideration. Each state has a number of electors (representatives and Senators) who represent the people in those states equally.

What is the Electoral College?

This system was put in place to avoid what now is called "a dictatorship of the proletariat", or a "dictatorship of the people".

If you were right then the majority could decide to take away rights from minorities, and those are not principles this country was founded on.

a reply to: Darkphoenix77

Maybe that means the elections aren't rigged afterall?