Why and How PUTIN’S RUSSIA IS BACKING DONALD TRUMP

a reply to: AboveBoard

"There was no criminal intent while breaking the law..."

Why aren't you sick of the fact the law is not the same for everyone?

a reply to: Nikola014

Says the guy that bought in to Hillary's BS how's Russia attacking her and the US.

Says the guy with the Che Guevara avatar!

a reply to: Nikola014

You feel sorry for me because I believe facts? I feel sorry for you because you don't.

Attacking me personally is fun, but pony up on your facts, Nikola, or step down already. There are countries other than the US, our allies (remember NATO) that are freaking out about the Russians attacking our elections, too. I realize you'd like to simply bully me into shutting up, but I would prefer you provide an actual argument.

Gauntlet thrown.

double post - sorry

originally posted by: AboveBoard
She's a politician, so her scheming to get elected and working a vast network isn't exactly surprising.

Scheming is not my issue, her outright lies and disregard for the same rules we need to play by are where I have my many problems with her and others like her.

She is an imperfect human...

Maybe Cyberdyne Systems can issue a recall and patch her imperfections.

I'm so pissed that we are falling for this crap.

Again, I do not think I am 'falling' for anything. Emails and documents have been exposed which show a methodical, deliberate and systemic disregard for ethics and legality. I hope she DOES get indicted and that she takes as many people in Congress and state politics down as she can.

Burn it all. Burn it with fire.

a reply to: AboveBoard

You misunderstood my posts. My intention is not to attack you personally, because it'd be pointless to do such a thing, when I have facts on my side.

All I've said is that It's laughable that you'd buy into the same crap we've been fed with for majority of our lives, and that you believe there's no corruption in the US government and it's system

a reply to: Nikola014

mean no offense, but if you're serious, than it's just laughable that you'd buy into that Hollywood type BS. Wake the f up and turn off MSM

op is joking its sarcasm isn't it ?!

a reply to: Nikola014

All I've said is that It's laughable that you'd buy into the same crap we've been fed with for majority of our lives, and that you believe there's no corruption in the US government and it's system

That's not the point. Do you believe Russia is incapable of manipulating the American media?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

If there is true criminal wrongdoing, and not some BS right-wing argument, or holding her to unreasonable standards that no other human in office has ever been held to, then fine - bring it on and we'll all deal with it. I have no problem with that. But if you think that this isn't an attempted pre-emptive coup, I would wholly disagree.

We have law enforcement using right-wing BS wholly debunked "research" in the form of the bogus "Clinton Cash" book and movie, which again, no reasonable prosecutor would touch, and trying to tilt the scales of an election because of it - that is crap. Why aren't you worried about that crap? It stinks way more than anything real that's come out of Clinton's emails.

The exposed documents show a lot of things, including positive ones. Did you see those?

- AB

Here's a Reuters 'cliffs-notes' of this whole debacle. Both sides, from a neutral point of view.

Click to read how this all has gone down.

originally posted by: AboveBoard
But if you think that this isn't an attempted pre-emptive coup, I would wholly disagree.

A coup? Not even remotely do I believe it is a coup. Are the Russians being meddlesome? Most likely, but I would wager we have done our own share of election meddling overseas as well.

We have law enforcement using right-wing BS wholly debunked "research" in the form of the bogus "Clinton Cash" book and movie, which again, no reasonable prosecutor would touch, and trying to tilt the scales of an election because of it - that is crap. Why aren't you worried about that crap? It stinks way more than anything real that's come out of Clinton's emails.

I will worry about the investigation when it is concluded and the evidence is released at which point it will be available for review where we can determine legitimacy.

The exposed documents show a lot of things, including positive ones. Did you see those?

The main positive for me is that the American public sees how cavalier our career politicians are with the truth and with ethics. Clinton's exposed emails could show that she donated a kidney to some dying kid in Albuquerque but this does not offset her scummy behavior and the scummy behavior of those like her.

Burn them all down to the ground.

oh, by the way, people. I'm still undecided.

Think I might write in Evan McMullin.

Have you all heard of him?
Here's the brief:

Evan McMullin


WRITE IN MCMULLIN. Or write in Sanders.

Don't vote for either of these people. I get why you all are pissed, I really do.
Neither seems like a good choice.
Did you see SNL's cold open last night? Kate McKinnon and Alec Baldwin?


I'm begging you all god help me please WE HAVE TO STOP this.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Trump is not Putins friend, he may have had business in russia involving Putin or someone related to Putin. I suspect its not easy to do business in russia without having Putin involved in one time or another... But that´s just a supposition.

As to Putin wanting Trump, maybe they have agreed on making a nuclear holocaust next year, this would be awesome for both of them.

Now seriously.

You cannot argue that you want the US pres to have good relations with foreign leaders and leaving the world´s second or third military power prsident out of it.

I really hope the have good relations and that their interests are aligned for the sake of us all.

The russian people in general like the american people, you can trust me on that, they just don´t understand why so much animosity against their country, with sanctions that harm them and aggressive wording against their president that if we´re honest we realise that is the man who saved russia from chaos 15 years ago. Most russians are very thankful to Putin for this.

I would vote for Putin himself if it would keep the pedophile, occultist regime that is Hillary out of office.

a reply to: Nikola014

Ok then. I won't take your assertions personally.

I have yet to see any "facts" presented from your side, however. All I see is you saying the MSM is crap, which it can be, but is not wholly. Eichenwald's article isn't crap and is backed up by research and facts.


As a side note, since Trump is proclaiming Hillary's emails to be "bigger than Watergate," do you know the level of corruption that happened in Nixon's Watergate, and how he lost the Presidency? It was far more and deeper than a simple break-in at the DNC in the hopes of discovering dirt on Nixon's opponent. It was wide ranging including criminal prosecution of multiple members of his administration.

These emails show NOTHING like the scandals of Nixon, nor the level of corruption he embodied.

Here:

Another answer has since persisted, often unchallenged: the notion that the coverup was worse than the crime. This idea minimizes the scale and reach of Nixon’s criminal actions.

Ervin’s answer to his own question hints at the magnitude of Watergate: “To destroy, insofar as the presidential election of 1972 was concerned, the integrity of the process by which the President of the United States is nominated and elected.” Yet Watergate was far more than that. At its most virulent, Watergate was a brazen and daring assault, led by Nixon himself, against the heart of American democracy: the Constitution, our system of free elections, the rule of law."

Nixon had lost his moral authority as president. His secret tapes — and what they reveal — will probably be his most lasting legacy. On them, he is heard talking almost endlessly about what would be good for him, his place in history and, above all, his grudges, animosities and schemes for revenge. The dog that never seems to bark is any discussion of what is good and necessary for the well-being of the nation.

The Watergate that we wrote about in The Washington Post from 1972 to 1974 is not Watergate as we know it today. It was only a glimpse into something far worse. By the time he was forced to resign, Nixon had turned his White House, to a remarkable extent, into a criminal enterprise.

On the day he left, Aug. 9, 1974, Nixon gave an emotional farewell speech in the East Room to his staff, his friends and his Cabinet. His family stood with him. Near the end of his remarks, he waved his arm, as if to highlight the most important thing he had to say.

“Always remember,” he said, “others may hate you, but those who hate you don’t win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself.”

His hatred had brought about his downfall. Nixon apparently grasped this insight, but it was too late. He had already destroyed himself.

(same article)

Link: Woodward and Bernstein: 40 years after Watergate, Nixon was far worse than we thought.


Also: Watergate Wiki


Someone please explain to me how what the Russians have done (and yes, I've researched this ad nauseam - it is the bloody Russians doing the hacking from every single piece of evidence that the highest level people in the know have presented) is not doing the exact same thing that Nixon did? How are they not hoping to engender a kind of Constitutional crisis?

Have we fallen so far that we are unable to see this? Why are we NOT willing to look at the truth that our entire system is under attack from hostile actors, all the while micro-assessing Assange's smugly timed document dumps?


There is a bigger picture here friends, - America itself is under attack, and it ain't by Hillary Clinton. And as to that Hate Nixon was speaking of, we seem to be fostering it in spades...we will fall as a nation if we continue on this dark path of divisiveness and hatred for the sake of tribalistic politics, without realizing that, "the good of man must be the end [ie goal] of politics" (Aristotle).

AB

Trumps wife and Putin's mistress are supposedly BFFs or at the very least they were good friends and that is a bit troubling knowing Trumps mouth. Trump used to claim he knew Putin very well and they had met and got along then later he claimed he had never met him so that can't both be true which means he lied about it. I don't know if they have an agreement between them, but there is substantial reason not to trust him as a leader of a nation. I don't trust Clinton either, but I have no reason to think she would put Russias interest before the US because of a business deal. Trump is a total con man IMO so I hope he doesn't get elected because it could be disastrous for the US.

For those voting for the two party sytemI am awaiting the results I will not be a part of that even though I am voting it is for funding the next election.

originally posted by: AboveBoard
How are they not hoping to engender a kind of Constitutional crisis?

Is it better if the corruption went unexposed?

I personally hope there is a constitutional crisis so people can wake up and see what a scheme politics has devolved into and at which point maybe we can reform the system.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

A coup? Not even remotely do I believe it is a coup. Are the Russians being meddlesome? Most likely, but I would wager we have done our own share of election meddling overseas as well.

A pre-emptive coup - an attempt at one, or at the very least, a one-sided action with the goal to influence and disrupt our political process.

And so...because we've been sucky and have "meddled" in elections (I won't argue that), which is generally a "wrong" or at least "for our own interest and not necessarily for the actual interest of the country we are meddling in" it is somehow okay for us to say "Yes Russia, penetrate us baby, spill our secrets on the International stage and meddle away in our process, we will thank you for all the one-sided truthiness and lust after each salacious morsel in those dirty little private emails...YES!"



Look, I do understand the impetus to "burn them all down." I get that. It is enraging that we have scummy crap going on behind the scenes. I'm sure it would be the same in many Corporations too. And to be very clear, we have NO way of knowing if Clinton is even the "worst" of the scummy actors in the scummy political system, do we? I think Chris Christie is far scummier, personally. However, I admit to incredible frustration that there is so little true honesty and purity in our politics. Long ago it started being dirty, and to play in it, to run with the big dogs, you had to get dirty. At least for the majority of people in politics.

We can have people pat us on the head and say how naive we are to think that it is possible to have non-crappy politics, and they do have a point, as people who seek power are often not the people who deserve power, but still, it is disgusting and wretched that it happens that way, and goodness and fairness and the actual desire to create a system that works for people, is so corrupted by all manner of human ills. Think of the Jim Crow era - think of McCarthyism - think of the Japanese Internment Camps - Watergate - Genocide of the Native Americans and their continued exploitation - the list goes on and on...

So I agree - I'm pissed at the entire thing on ALL sides of it.

a reply to: CrapAsUsual

I have no problem with the Russian people.

The Kremlin has developed a file on Mr. Trump, which was collected for the purpose of trying to get dirt on him, thus to be able to control him. They are not our friends, nor are they Mr. Trump's friend, and we cannot call anyone who hacks us and attempt to derail our elections a friend. Putin is not our friend. The Kremlin is not our friend.

But the Russian people as a whole - good folks! I have some Russian ancestry, myself, as one of my Great Grandparents immigrated here from Russia prior to the Communist Revolution.

originally posted by: AboveBoard
A pre-emptive coup - an attempt at one, or at the very least, a one-sided action with the goal to influence and disrupt our political process.

I agree that there is an attempt to influence the election but a coup is not the same thing.

And so...because we've been sucky and have "meddled" in elections (I won't argue that), which is generally a "wrong" or at least "for our own interest and not necessarily for the actual interest of the country we are meddling in" it is somehow okay for us to say "Yes Russia, penetrate us baby, spill our secrets on the International stage and meddle away in our process, we will thank you for all the one-sided truthiness and lust after each salacious morsel in those dirty little private emails...YES!"

It is wrong on both sides but we made our bed. And quite frankly if our media is not willing to do their job, a la Woodward and Bernstein, the exposure needs to come from somewhere and at that point I do not care if it is the Russians, Chinese or goddamn space aliens. If my choices are:

A) Corruption is hidden and we all get to have the warm and fuzzies since the Ruskies are playing nice nice with Washington

or

B) The corruption is exposed by a regime hostile to the United States

I will pick 'B'. Every. Single. Time.

Long ago it started being dirty, and to play in it, to run with the big dogs, you had to get dirty. At least for the majority of people in politics.

And when you get caught, by whatever means happen to occur, they cannot cry their whiny baby bulls*** that it is not fair. Tough snookems, deary, if you did not want emails showing you are ethically and legally challenged coming to light perhaps you should not have sent them.

So I agree - I'm pissed at the entire thing on ALL sides of it.

Good, I have a torch and pitchfork primed for you too. I want this whole rotten thing to burn to the ground.