Man´s IQ Scores Keep Falling And Falling - There Is Only Devolution, No Evolution...

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: InTheLight
This has recently been proven here in Canada where a Muslim school has scored the highest in the province of Quebec. Is this because of the importance of education instilled in the children, or the parents' authority in pushing (keyword) the young people only in that one direction which may cause other problems, such as a fear of academic failure, stress etc., so as to measure up to a perceived academic goalpost (statistics)?

Competition is good, it makes people strive for more
This is why east asian countries are highest on earth for IQ
IQ of nations
A high priority on education and a fierce competition with global markets for capitalist goals creating a perfect storm for increasing intellectual capacity out of necessity..basically its a cold war of economics.

We could learn a thing or two. I would like to see a competing schools idea instituted with a sliding scale of benefits that rewards not just the students, but parents of the better schools...this would get parents more involved if they are profiting somehow off their childs preformance.

Then there is Finland's approach to academic success, which yields surprising results, as well (see my link above).

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: InTheLight
This has recently been proven here in Canada where a Muslim school has scored the highest in the province of Quebec. Is this because of the importance of education instilled in the children, or the parents' authority in pushing (keyword) the young people only in that one direction which may cause other problems, such as a fear of academic failure, stress etc., so as to measure up to a perceived academic goalpost (statistics)?

Competition is good, it makes people strive for more
This is why east asian countries are highest on earth for IQ
IQ of nations
A high priority on education and a fierce competition with global markets for capitalist goals creating a perfect storm for increasing intellectual capacity out of necessity..basically its a cold war of economics.

We could learn a thing or two. I would like to see a competing schools idea instituted with a sliding scale of benefits that rewards not just the students, but parents of the better schools...this would get parents more involved if they are profiting somehow off their childs preformance.

mhmm, Finlands academics is top notch. I wonder if the trend will push them up with asian countries in regards to IQ soon. not sure when the next scoring is done. its been a number of years, so perhaps soon.
the US is sadly on a great decline...well, rather, its not growing as fast as many other 3rd world countries. something needs to change

a reply to: Krazysh0t

As many discredits and bad words you use, please let me know what does not make sense in my argument? You could say that earth is a closed system by the way.

And in any case the DNA mutation rate will make mankind die out over maximum a few tens of thousands of years and that makes the Theory Of Evolution obsolete no matter how much some people will scream about this fact being fake, false, hypocrisy.

The evidence against evolution is simply overwhelming:

- fake scientists who were proven liars
- fake forgeries of transitional fossils
- thousands of artefacts(most of them destroyed or hidden by those protecting the evolution theory) from prehistoric civilizations, massive stone buildings, giants, more pure iron than we could ever produce etc etc. Read NY Times from the 19th and 20th century. They reported about giant skeletons at least 7 times in their newspaper reports. Were they always lying??...
- Mathematics of DNA mutation rates
- Mathematics of DNA mutation probability rates makes evolution impossible
- Physics
- Current society utterly disproves evolution since it follows the laws of physics going from order to chaos.. From intelligence to stupidity.
- No species or bacteria could ever become a new species


Let folk think for themselves. It´s a free world and everyone is free to believe whatever they wish. For your information I am educated in maths and physics and I believe in common sense and logics and no dogma or created axioms by people with ulterior motives. It is my pleasure to show people this simple piece of the Marxist conspiracy. It´s vital to keep people believing that they are animals and that they should fight against each other as the Machiavellian ruler needs. Well, human beings are no animals although the media tries to make people into animals and control their minds by drowning them with false information at school. Remember, Darwin was a liar and many of the other iconic evolutionists too as is shown in the articles. Never trust a liar.

We could invert the evolution picture of the ape becoming man and you will know the real objective of modern mind manipulation. They have almost succeeded too according to the IQ score development of mankind.

a reply to: Gaussq

Human IQ is said to be rising at 3-4 points per decade. IQ scores are then revised to keep the average at 100.

Human biological capacity for intelligence may be falling, but IQ is known to have been steadily increasing since the 1930's.

a reply to: dogstar23
We are DEVO

Lyrics (Jocko Homo)

originally posted by: Gaussq
As many discredits and bad words you use, please let me know what does not make sense in my argument? You could say that earth is a closed system by the way.

No you can't, because the earth actively receives energy from the sun. This makes it open, or at the very least not an isolated system, which means entropy is no problem for evolution. I know that's the popular buzzword argument these days on AIG and ICR but it proves nothing.

And in any case the DNA mutation rate will make mankind die out over maximum a few tens of thousands of years and that makes the Theory Of Evolution obsolete no matter how much some people will scream about this fact being fake, false, hypocrisy.

Please post the scientific research paper that claims the mutation rate is a problem for evolution. It may be a hurdle for humanity to overcome, or may make some human species go extinct in the future, but see no reason why this would go against evolution. Harmful mutations die out and don't pass down genes, so I don't the argument here. Maybe in context with the proper research papers I will have a better idea of what you are getting at.

The evidence against evolution is simply overwhelming:

The exact opposite is true.

- fake scientists who were proven liars
- fake forgeries of transitional fossils

What about the valid ones? Do you not realize that honest SCIENTISTS were the ones that exposed the frauds? So what, a handful of frauds out of what, millions of fossils? Science is error correcting, you just posted evidence of peer review doing its job. It's certainly not evidence against evolution. You'd have to ignore the millions of valid fossils, which is dishonest.

- thousands of artefacts(most of them destroyed or hidden by those protecting the evolution theory) from prehistoric civilizations, massive stone buildings, giants, more pure iron than we could ever produce etc etc. Read NY Times from the 19th and 20th century. They reported about giant skeletons at least 7 times in their newspaper reports. Were they always lying??...

You brought up fraudulent scientists above, yet lend credibility to the obviously fraudulent photoshopped "giant" skeleton picture. LMAO! Where is your proof of any of that? NY Times isn't a peer reviewed journal, sorry. "Oh yeah, just read 100 years worth of NY times articles." How general can you be? If you have an article that is relevant, post it.

- Mathematics of DNA mutation rates
- Mathematics of DNA mutation probability rates makes evolution impossible

Yeah, just post the same point twice in a row to make it seem like 2 points! Well done.

So anyways, please post the research with math broken down.

- Physics

No. Evolution is biology.

- Current society utterly disproves evolution since it follows the laws of physics going from order to chaos.. From intelligence to stupidity.

You may want to take a physics 101 course. The earth gets energy from the sun, so there is no problem with evolution and complexity / order increasing in our system, until the sun runs out of energy.

- No species or bacteria could ever become a new species

Completely false. Speciation has been witnessed more than once in a lab. I guess we're just making things up today. I will predict your next argument that will move the goalposts or change the meaning of species. This is why doing the research matters. You can't just do 100% of your research on evolution on religious propaganda sites.

Let folk think for themselves. It´s a free world and everyone is free to believe whatever they wish. For your information I am educated in maths and physics and I believe in common sense and logics and no dogma or created axioms by people with ulterior motives. It is my pleasure to show people this simple piece of the Marxist conspiracy. It´s vital to keep people believing that they are animals and that they should fight against each other as the Machiavellian ruler needs. Well, human beings are no animals although the media tries to make people into animals and control their minds by drowning them with false information at school. Remember, Darwin was a liar and many of the other iconic evolutionists too as is shown in the articles. Never trust a liar.

Sorry it doesn't add up. Do you care to bring up the amount of religious hoaxes out there, or the amount of wars fought in the name of religion/god? Sure don't even mention that society is DOMINATED by religious folk today that fight to put their personal beliefs into law and attack evolution while knowing zero about how it actually works. What a joke. You say to let people think for themselves, yet here you are telling people what to think about a field of science you have never done research in. All of your points come from religious propaganda websites. If you have evidence that ACTUALLY goes against evolution you should post it instead of rhetoric and irrelevant libel against Darwin. Our understanding of evolution has greatly improved since Darwin.

originally posted by: Gaussq
a reply to: Krazysh0t

As many discredits and bad words you use, please let me know what does not make sense in my argument? You could say that earth is a closed system by the way.

No you can't. It receives much of its energy from the sun (and to a lesser extent all the stars that shine on it).
Does Life On Earth Violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

And in any case the DNA mutation rate will make mankind die out over maximum a few tens of thousands of years and that makes the Theory Of Evolution obsolete no matter how much some people will scream about this fact being fake, false, hypocrisy.

What DNA mutation rate? The article talked about calculating it but never did. It just made it up and assumed it was right yet showed no evidence that it knew what it was talking about. Plus with all the scientific inaccuracies in the article I am leaning on it being a bunch of hooey anyways.

The evidence against evolution is simply overwhelming:

Great a Gish-Gallop.

- fake scientists who were proven liars

Which scientists are you referring to exactly? There are TONS of scientists that study and add to evolutionary theory.

- fake forgeries of transitional fossils

Fakes are identified and removed from the scientific record. Fakes also don't mean that the real fossils are immediately discredited.

- thousands of artefacts(most of them destroyed or hidden by those protecting the evolution theory) from prehistoric civilizations, massive stone buildings, giants, more pure iron than we could ever produce etc etc. Read NY Times from the 19th and 20th century. They reported about giant skeletons at least 7 times in their newspaper reports. Were they always lying??...

Lol. You are quoting the Times from the 19th century in as far as trying to argue against science? None of this is true; plus you have no evidence of it.

- Mathematics of DNA mutation rates

I'm still waiting to see these mathematics and your explanation showing you understand the math.

- Mathematics of DNA mutation probability rates makes evolution impossible

You just repeating yourself now?

- Physics

Physics? What part of Physics exactly? Did you ignore the part where I corrected your article and pointed out how not only it didn't know what Law in Physics it was talking about, but they were misquoting it?

- Current society utterly disproves evolution since it follows the laws of physics going from order to chaos.. From intelligence to stupidity.

There is no law of "order to chaos". It's the Second Law of Thermodynamics and the earth isn't a closed system.

- No species or bacteria could ever become a new species

Species don't "become" new species. They change a little over a time over millions of years until they no longer look like the previous species and thus are a new species.

Let folk think for themselves. It´s a free world and everyone is free to believe whatever they wish. For your information I am educated in maths and physics and I believe in common sense and logics and no dogma or created axioms by people with ulterior motives. It is my pleasure to show people this simple piece of the Marxist conspiracy. It´s vital to keep people believing that they are animals and that they should fight against each other as the Machiavellian ruler needs. Well, human beings are no animals although the media tries to make people into animals and control their minds by drowning them with false information at school. Remember, Darwin was a liar and many of the other iconic evolutionists too as is shown in the articles. Never trust a liar.

You clearly aren't demonstrating your education in math and physics if you are trying to push this abortion of science on people.

We could invert the evolution picture of the ape becoming man and you will know the real objective of modern mind manipulation. They have almost succeeded too according to the IQ score development of mankind.

Dude. All you are doing is repeating all the points I debunked in your article. Thinking for yourself? I'm not sure you are even doing that.

originally posted by: darknewt
I've never understood the IQ of a person going lower because of technology,
What about the people that make newer technology?a reply to: Gaussq

Well it's relative, the people who create are high IQ, the people who use and can't create fall to lower IQ's. There will always be more people using and less people creating, and as more and more stuff gets created, less and less stuff will get created, because the need for it will not exist, thus creating a serious conundrum, that will enable all of humankind to shed it's intelligence.

As for this thread though, no -- we aren't devolving, we just are being deprived by social norms. It's uncool to be a nerd and into programming, it's totally cool to throw an oval ball while trying to destroy your opponents and bang all the cheerleaders.

Oh and by the by, there are plenty of things that require higher level problem solving skills now than ever before, just try to program something in C++ and you'll quickly realize that you have to have truely amazing problem solving skills to get it done.

Most people couldn't program a triple switch, with 2 switch states on each switch, combination lock for a series of multiple doors on their own using just variables and if/or statements. This requires a level of logic that is actually remarkably simple, yet most people just can't understand it.

I.E.

It's in my personal opinion, that people who make video games are currently the smartest people on the planet -- they have to deal non-stop with logic conundrums and must exercise excellent problem solving skills, to a degree that even most actual physicists don't actually get to apply.

A more simple explanation; people who emulate and attempt to recreate a simulation of the universe will actually have to have the most intelligence and best understandings of the universe as a whole. The person who made the matrix has the understanding that's closest to "god" -- and that's the heading that game designers are currently on -- which produces genius after genius, even if the world views their creations as just simple entertainment, it's a whole lot deeper than you might realize.

a reply to: Gaussq

Man´s IQ scores are falling rapidly in line with DNA mutation rates making man weaker and dumber as time goes by.. This is in complete contradiction to the Theory Of Evolution. A civilization could not have lived more than 30 000 years because by then the DNA would be totally alterred for worse.

False. The opposite is true.

The people who design and administer IQ tests have to keep shifting the mean downwards to ensure that the average IQ remains 100. If they scored IQ tests the same way they did 50 years ago, today's average IQ would be several points above 100. And if you extrapolate backwards, using school tests and suchlike, people 100 years ago were what today we would call intellectually subnormal.

This doesn't really mean people are getting smarter -- education and culture have a lot to do with it -- but we certainly aren't getting more stupid. Oh, and it probably doesn't have anything to do with evolution either.

Sorry to be so disappointingly optimistic and cheerful, bur such are the facts. (Source of said facts: Stephen Pinker, The Better Angels of Our Nature. Google it. It's authoritative.)

a reply to: Tranceopticalinclined

I have always thought that while we have a chance at having a divide of the " Haves " and " Have Nots " we could just as well have the divide be between the folks with a " Desire to Learn " and a " Desire to fulfill desires ", one leading towards self discovery and the other leading to self destruction or stagnation.

Which is a grand testimonial to the success of modern society. Once, the majority of people were forced down by society -- the have-nots, they were. Now the majority have the potential to learn better and move forward.

Some take the offer. Some don’t. They choose to snooze. And when you snooze, you lose.

I suppose I should add that there are stll plenty of people who lack the choice. I'm not talking about them.

a reply to: dogstar23

Human IQ is said to be rising at 3-4 points per decade. IQ scores are then revised to keep the average at 100.

I've also heard IQ is increasing.

Human biological capacity for intelligence may be falling, but IQ is known to have been steadily increasing since the 1930's.

I thought IQ was an attempt to measure biological capacity for intelligence. Could you elaborate on this?

a reply to: Barcs

the earth actively receives energy from the sun. This makes it open, or at the very least not an isolated system.

Also from starlight, cosmic rays of various kinds, reflected light from the moon and other planets, kinetic energy and mass from meteors and other cosmic debris, and water from comets.

Our planet also emits energy as light, heat, radio waves and what not. And loses mass in the form of escaping atmospheric gases, dust and so on.

Closed, forsooth. Earth is the very definition of an 'open system'. The sky has no roof.

It appears that the OP has been carefully sheltered from any exposure to the dangerous mind-virus known as Science.

a reply to: lordcomac

If you want to evolve into a smarter species, you need start killing off the dummies.

Don't forget natural selection isn't the only force at play. Sexual selection will push some demographics towards higher IQ, even if the intelligence of the majority declines (which is contrary to what I've heard).

originally posted by: VP740
I thought IQ was an attempt to measure biological capacity for intelligence. Could you elaborate on this?

It tests pattern recognition. Calling that 'intelligence' is a stretch. There are other ways to be intelligent. Problem solving with patterns is great an all, but that's pretty subjective.

I would say it's more noticed smart people have high IQ, than someone with a high IQ being smart.

a reply to: imjack

Fair enough. Although the most accepted IQ tests are supposed to be fairly objective, perhaps the most relevant forms of human intelligence are to subjective for us to measure scientifically at this time.

a reply to: VP740

It helps if you ask what intelligence is for.

Somebody said earlier that IQ tests are about pattern recognition. They're not -- or not only -- about that. Still, if you can come up with a better definition of intelligence than 'being able to identify and understand patterns', I have a small prize to award you.

a reply to: Gaussq

Flynn effect, google it.

When making an argument, always to to falsify first.

a reply to: Gaussq

IQ dropping is not a contradiction in Darwin's theory. Adaptation through descent with modification explains IQ drops through environmental changes;technology doing our thinking for us is an environmental change. Populations don't need to have a higher IQ to survive anymore, hence the drop through adaptation. You clearly don't Darwin's evolutionary theory.

a reply to: intrptr

Not true.
It's memory based..I still held at 115 in 2007 I haven't tested lately.
I didn't LIKE education or the institutionalization thing.
Just read alot and Math is non existant.

a reply to: Astyanax

The British psychologist Charles Spearman in 1904 made the first formal factor analysis of correlations between the tests. He observed that children's school grades across seemingly unrelated school subjects were positively correlated, and reasoned that these correlations reflected the influence of an underlying general mental ability that entered into performance on all kinds of mental tests. He suggested that all mental performance could be conceptualized in terms of a single general ability factor and a large number of narrow task-specific ability factors. Spearman named it g for "general factor" and labeled the specific factors or abilities for specific tasks s. In any collection of test items that make up an IQ test, the score that best measures g is the composite score that has the highest correlations with all the item scores. Typically, the "g-loaded" composite score of an IQ test battery appears to involve a common strength in abstract reasoning across the test's item content. Therefore, Spearman and others have regarded g as closely related to the essence of human intelligence. -Wikipedia

I've heard g correlates with the density of white matter in the prefrontal cortex. There are numerous forms of intelligence which aren't considered valid measure's of IQ though. Supposedly a person with a higher IQ will require less time and effort to develop their capability in whatever field they pursue. A person with a lower IQ may still be able to develop their intelligence further by investing more time and effort though. For example, if a lazy arrogant person was in a calculus class and didn't study much, the person with the lower IQ who studied intensively could get better grades in the class, and ultimately develop a better more practical understanding and ability to apply calculus.

Some forms of intelligence may be harder to define and measure than others. Take language as an example; you could measure someones basic proficiency in a programming language quite easily. Deciding who does the best job of translating poetry from Japanese to English would be a lot more subjective though. And despite programming languages being far simpler than natural languages (English, Spanish, etc..), many would find it easier to learn another natural language, than to learn a programming language or a mathematical language.

I suppose it is possible for the general population's ability to master their native language to decline, while their ability to give instructions through more technical languages increases. In which case, the populations more natural forms of intelligence could atrophy without drawing much attention (those capabilities are more subjective and difficult to asses), while the forms of intelligence which can be readily measured and tested could increase, giving the false impression that intelligence in general is increasing.