How did Giants survive the Deluge?

a reply to: Seede

No, the flood was necessary to destroy the Nephilim who corrupted humanity, not the other way around.

After all it was God's Sons who decided to abandon their position and descend to mate with women.

Meaning it was not mankind's fault that the Irim decided to rebel, lead by Semyaza and Azazel.

To say that God didn't do it to destroy the Nephilim is absurd, that was the cause of corruption.

God's Sons are to blame, not humans who were powerless and innocent bystanders.

You really don't like to look at things rationally do you?

How is it humans fault that angels raped their women and birthed giants who were devouring everything in sight including people?

That's insane.

As for the Deluge, the highest authority on those events is the ancient Book of Enoch.

While the exoteric minded will blame humans for the flood, it was because of the rebellion of the Watchers/Irim/Grigori that the Nephilim were born.

These Nephilim were so large that the earth could not sustain them and they turned to devouring mankind.

I doubt the daughters of men wanted giant babies, obviously they were raped.

To put the blame on mankind is to be a dupe, following only the exoteric letter.

The Spirit of the scriptures interpreted esoterically would obviously conclude, even without the revelation of Enoch, that mankind was not to blame.

a reply to: Malocchio

Text You really don't like to look at things rationally do you? How is it humans fault that angels raped their women and birthed giants who were devouring everything in sight including people? That's insane.

Gen 6:4 -7
(4) There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
(5) And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
(6) And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
(7) And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

You have a very serious persecution complex. In the above scriptures the author states that there were giants among the people as the result of the sins of mankind and all of the creation that was given to mankind. This entire creation was given to the creation by the Creator to do as mankind was taught by the Creator. No mention of rape whatsoever. The victim of a rape is not the sinner as your mind imagines. You only get sin when you sin willingly. You are not a killer because you get killed and you are not a sinner when you do not sin.

The sin comes when the men and women would not refuse to sin with the angelic host. This approved union by both men and women ushered in the the corruption of the three races along with the Adamic race to contaminate all of the creation and not simply men and women. The three races of this act of sin were not the creation of the Creator. They were the creation of the angelic host and the lust of the women. No rape at all and no mention of rape except in your twisted interpretation.

God's intent was to destroy the corrupt seed of His creation. What you are proposing is that the Creator is unable to kill all that He wanted to kill and that these bad guys outsmarted God. Do you have any other examples of anyone who has cheated death? I don't think so. Sorry no rape here at all. Just in your own mind.

Food for thought --- How did the Nephilim survive the flood? Who was the prince of the power of the air at that time? Could the angelic host have survived the flood of the earth by not being on the earth during the flood? Humm?

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Malocchio

Text You really don't like to look at things rationally do you? How is it humans fault that angels raped their women and birthed giants who were devouring everything in sight including people? That's insane.

Gen 6:4 -7
(4) There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
(5) And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
(6) And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
(7) And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

You have a very serious persecution complex. In the above scriptures the author states that there were giants among the people as the result of the sins of mankind and all of the creation that was given to mankind. This entire creation was given to the creation by the Creator to do as mankind was taught by the Creator. No mention of rape whatsoever. The victim of a rape is not the sinner as your mind imagines. You only get sin when you sin willingly. You are not a killer because you get killed and you are not a sinner when you do not sin.

The sin comes when the men and women would not refuse to sin with the angelic host. This approved union by both men and women ushered in the the corruption of the three races along with the Adamic race to contaminate all of the creation and not simply men and women. The three races of this act of sin were not the creation of the Creator. They were the creation of the angelic host and the lust of the women. No rape at all and no mention of rape except in your twisted interpretation.

God's intent was to destroy the corrupt seed of His creation. What you are proposing is that the Creator is unable to kill all that He wanted to kill and that these bad guys outsmarted God. Do you have any other examples of anyone who has cheated death? I don't think so. Sorry no rape here at all. Just in your own mind.

Food for thought --- How did the Nephilim survive the flood? Who was the prince of the power of the air at that time? Could the angelic host have survived the flood of the earth by not being on the earth during the flood? Humm?

You can think whatever you want but you actually have a ''cant be wrong on anything" complex.

Personally I am a little sick of your insults and attitude.

What I said is what I know, humans were not the actual cause of the flood, the Sons of God were.

And that is that. Say something meaningful for a change and maybe I won't have to correct you.

a reply to: Seede

You need to learn to let people understand on their own, nobody is asking for your help.

Offer your opinion and stop trying to make it personal.

You gotta let go of that chip, false prophet Saul has got you in his web of deceit thinking only your/his teachings/interpretations matter.

Honest Injun, I care not what you think so stop trying to force your beliefs on me. I am not interested in your original sin, everything is mankinds fault even if Gods Sons actually caused the havoc, religious brain washing.

Like I said, an exoteric mind thinks like you, I think esoterically.

Deal with it.

a reply to: Malocchio

TextPersonally I am a little sick of your insults and attitude. What I said is what I know, humans were not the actual cause of the flood, the Sons of God were. And that is that. Say something meaningful for a change and maybe I won't have to correct you.

You must control that bad temper that you show. Did you know that anger is temporary insanity and that you are quite beside yourself in many posts.

You say that you have corrected me yet I see nothing in your insane rants with qualified sources. Let me re post what Genesis tells you and then you go argue with the people who wrote the following.

Gen 6:4 -7
(4) There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
(5) And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
(6) And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
(7) And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." -- Not that God saw the wickedness of the angelic host being the reason for destroying the world but the wickedness of mankind. The authority was given to mankind. Not to the angelic host or the giants. The angelic host had a separate punishment as well as the races of the giants have their own punishments.

No rape here at all. Sorry about that but you are completely wrong and you know it. You should not be angry and mean spirited. Simply learn the right way so that you can overcome your ignorance. We are here to help you and not persecute you.

a reply to: Seede

The Nephilim were so bad that they were destroying the earth and had to be eliminated.

Noah was the only non descendant of the Nephilim left.

The Irim were imprisoned in the earth, Azazel in a mountain. Ironically they were ordered to sacrifice a goat to Azazel.

The Deluge wiped them out and man went on in peace until Nimrod came to power, but he was killed. It didn't matter he left behind plenty of Rephaim offspring and Anakim were also giants.

Joshua slaughtered them.

a reply to: Seede

The Jews have a story that Og of Bashan held on to side of the ark the entire time.

He was like ten feet tall.

Nothing like the size of Enoch's angels though, they are like skyscrapers.

a reply to: Seede

Imagine you're just hanging out with your wife, kids, and a Mighty angel comes and does your wife. 200 of them flying around, doing everybody's wives and daughters.

Definitely wasn't people who were the reason for the flood, it just wasn't and nothing that happened was people's fault.

originally posted by: Malocchio

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Malocchio


Joshua, the Old Testament conquerer of Canaan,

The OT is very LOOSELY based on any real history.
Fundamentalists remain ever clueless.
It was never meant to be taken word for word literally.
No evidence of your fallen angels, giants or flood!

I really didn't need you to tell me that, never said I took anything literally, don't assume.

The irony is that he's using budah as an avatar... lol

a reply to: Malocchio

The Jews have a story that Og of Bashan held on to side of the ark the entire time. He was like ten feet tall. Nothing like the size of Enoch's angels though, they are like skyscrapers.

Ginzberg notes this in his volume one of "Legends Of The Jews" which is taken from " Babylonian Talmud – Mas Berachoth 54 b"
Quote
The height of Moses was ten cubits. He took an axe ten cubits long, leapt ten cubits into the air, and struck him on his ankle and killed him.
Unquote

My own book researched this as
Quote
If we use the 28 inches to a cubit, we see Moses as a 23 foot giant himself in comparison to the archaeological mummies which show the average man to be less then 3 cubits in stature. If on the other hand we see a 23 foot man, then what would his cubit be? It most certainly would not be 28 inches to a cubit because his hand span would be much greater than the small 5-foot man.
Unquote

The cubit of that day was unknown for that culture. A cubit is a means of measurement and not a measurement. If Moses is as tradition tells us and leaping ten cubits in the air and only striking Og on the ankle then it is almost certain that the giant Og was greater than ten feet. And we are not told whether it was the cubit of a man or of the giant Og.

a reply to: Seede

I don't buy the story of Og holding on to the Ark, it's just a Rabbinical tradition and not something I take seriously at all.

Og was a big guy, of course. He had the ''gene."

originally posted by: StallionDuck

originally posted by: Malocchio

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Malocchio


Joshua, the Old Testament conquerer of Canaan,

The OT is very LOOSELY based on any real history.
Fundamentalists remain ever clueless.
It was never meant to be taken word for word literally.
No evidence of your fallen angels, giants or flood!

I really didn't need you to tell me that, never said I took anything literally, don't assume.

The irony is that he's using budah as an avatar... lol

That is Ironic.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: namelesss
"The OT is very LOOSELY based on any real history. Fundamentalists remain ever clueless. It was never meant to be taken word for word literally. No evidence of your fallen angels, giants or flood!"

Don't know what you mean by that word LOOSELY

I recant my argument!
Every Perspective is, ultimately, equally valid, equally of the One Reality!

"The complete Universe (Reality/Truth/God/'Self!'/Tao/Brahman... or any feature herein...) can be completely defined/described as the synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives!" - Book of Fudd
ALL INCLUSIVE!!!

'History' is whatever you think it is.
Truth is ALL inclusive!

Being a philosopher and scientist, I naturally jump to question what doesn't pass scientific/philosophical scrutiny!
But there is more to Reality than logic and science.
Reality is far stranger than you or I can possibly imagine, and it's ALL 'imagination'!
Enjoy your monsters and floods!
I do enjoy 'mine'!

"Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true." - Demosthenes

tat tvam asi (en.wikipedia.org...)

originally posted by: Malocchio

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Malocchio


Joshua, the Old Testament conquerer of Canaan,

The OT is very LOOSELY based on any real history.
Fundamentalists remain ever clueless.
It was never meant to be taken word for word literally.
No evidence of your fallen angels, giants or flood!

I really didn't need you to tell me that, never said I took anything literally, don't assume.

You are speaking as if the critters (Nephilim and floods, for starters) of Genesis are 'historical'.
I was referring to that belief in the literality of Genesis.
If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.

"Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true." - Demosthenes

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Malocchio

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Malocchio


Joshua, the Old Testament conquerer of Canaan,

The OT is very LOOSELY based on any real history.
Fundamentalists remain ever clueless.
It was never meant to be taken word for word literally.
No evidence of your fallen angels, giants or flood!

I really didn't need you to tell me that, never said I took anything literally, don't assume.

You are speaking as if the critters (Nephilim and floods, for starters) of Genesis are 'historical'.
I was referring to that belief in the literality of Genesis.
If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.

"Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true." - Demosthenes

There you go again assuming that you know what I think, I never actually spoke of this as history though and stated otherwise.

For the record. I told you this already.

Also I am the furthest thing from a Fundamentalist, I am actually Muslim, and not a Fundamentalist Muslim either.

I do what I want when I want in life, am blessed and don't need to believe mythology is history to be interested in it spiritually.

Your little quote is best saved for the man/woman/person who just typed it.

Nephilim: Insight, Volume 2

A Report Intended to Terrorize. The ten spies who brought back to the Israelites in the wilderness a false report on the land of Canaan declared: “All the people whom we saw in the midst of it are men of extraordinary size. And there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, who are from the Nephilim; so that we became in our own eyes like grasshoppers, and the same way we became in their eyes.” No doubt there were some large men in Canaan, as other scriptures show, but never except in this “bad report,” which was carefully couched in language designed to strike terror and cause panic among the Israelites, are they called Nephilim.

Nu 13:31-33:

31 But the men who went up with him said: “We are not able to go up against the people, because they are stronger than we are.” 32 And they kept on giving the Israelites a bad report about the land that they had spied out, saying: “The land that we passed through to spy out is a land that devours its inhabitants, and all the people whom we saw in it are men of extraordinary size. 33 And there we saw the Nephʹi·lim, the sons of Aʹnak, who are from* the Nephʹi·lim, and in comparison we seemed like grasshoppers, both to us and to them.” [*: Or “descendants of.”]

14:36, 37:

36 The men whom Moses sent to spy out the land and who caused the whole assembly to murmur against him when they returned with a bad report about the land, 37 yes, the men who brought back the bad report about the land will be struck down and die before Jehovah.

They were lying, they were not descendants of the Nephʹi·lim that lived before the flood.
Now if you want to talk about giants after the flood who aren't descendants of the Nephʹi·lim that lived before the flood...
Giant: Insight, Volume 1

GIANT

The Bible gives accounts of men of extraordinary size. There was Og, king of Bashan, one of the Rephaim, whose bier was nine cubits (4 m; 13.1 ft) in length and four cubits (1.8 m; 5.8 ft) in width. (De 3:11) Goliath of Gath, whom David killed, was six cubits and a span (2.9 m; 9.5 ft) in height. Indicative of Goliath’s size and strength was the weight of his armor. His copper coat of mail weighed 5,000 shekels (57 kg; 126 lb); the iron blade of his spear weighed 600 shekels (6.8 kg; 15 lb).—1Sa 17:4-7.

Besides Og and Goliath, there were other unusually large men of the Rephaim, among them being Ishbi-benob, the weight of whose spear was 300 shekels of copper (3.4 kg; 7.5 lb) (2Sa 21:16); Saph, or Sippai (2Sa 21:18; 1Ch 20:4); Lahmi, Goliath’s brother, “the shaft of whose spear was like the beam of loom workers” (1Ch 20:5); and a man of extraordinary size whose fingers and toes were in sixes, totaling 24 (2Sa 21:20).

The faithless spies reported to the Israelites that in Canaan they “saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, who are from the Nephilim; so that we became in our own eyes like grasshoppers, and the same way we became in their eyes.” (Nu 13:33) These men of extraordinary size, called the sons of Anak (probably meaning “Long-Necked [that is, of tall stature]”), were not actually Nephilim, as reported, but were only unusually tall men, for the Nephilim, the offspring of angels and women (Ge 6:4), perished in the Flood.

And just to be clear about what "Nephʹi·lim" actually means and what it can be used to refer to (depending on the context). From the earlier link:

(Nephʹi·lim) [Fellers; Those Who Cause [Others] to Fall Down].

This is a transliteration of the Hebrew word nephi·limʹ, plural in its three occurrences in the Bible. (Ge 6:4; Nu 13:33 [twice]) It evidently stems from the causative form of the Hebrew verb na·phalʹ (fall) as found, for example, in 2 Kings 3:19; 19:7.

The Bible account describing Jehovah’s displeasure with men in the days of Noah before the Flood relates that “the sons of the true God” took for themselves wives from among the attractive daughters of men. It then mentions the presence of “Nephilim,” saying: “The Nephilim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the true God continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones [Heb., hag·gib·bo·rimʹ] who were of old, the men of fame.”—Ge 6:1-4.

a reply to: whereislogic

I'm not going to discount the contents of a story I know is mythology because someone says that the spies were lying, it's a part of the story and that is that.

They went on to ethnically cleanse them from Canaan because they had the Power of Yahweh on their side, a very important aspect of the story that makes David and Goliath look like a walk in the park compared to fighting a nation of them.

I would like to see the scripture that has Og born before the flood, I have mentioned this tradition that he held on to the side of the Ark but I don't remember him before the flood and don't believe the tradition as worth having.

Rephaim are mentioned in the more ancient Epic of Gilgamesh as is the flood, I think I should get around to reading it sometime but I know the gist of it, it's clearly the source for the myth itself told by Hebrews as if it was their own story but Enoch takes it to another level.

The Watchers were imprisoned and the Nephilim destroyed physically but left to roam as demons.

Nimrod was the first post Deluge Rephaim and was Osiris in Egypt, the first Potentate and he would have lived a long time and had many descendants who were know as the Rephaim and they must have come from him.

a reply to: Malocchio


i know we're talking after the flood but
Pre Deluge Rephaim might originate with
Tem or Atum great grandfather to Osiris
The 1st god Tem

as evidenced by his prominence in the Pyramid Texts

In the Heliopolitan creation myth, Atum was considered to be the first god, having created himself, sitting on a mound

en.wikipedia.org...

Christiane Desroches Noblecourt
in her book on Tutankhamen
Amun (Vizier of the poor) is mentioned as Divine Father on important Oblekisks
coated in Electrum
and equated to the 1st god Tem or Atum
en.wikipedia.org...

It was thought that Amun created himself and then his surroundings

by king/queen Hatshepsut
en.wikipedia.org...

She had twin obelisks, at the time the tallest in the world, erected at the entrance to the temple. One still stands, as the tallest surviving ancient obelisk on Earth; the other has broken in two and toppled.

Atum has close symbolism with Alchemy

He is usually depicted as a man wearing either the royal head-cloth or the dual white and red crown

the creation of his children is synonymous with
the Alchemical process and the creation of homunculi

Atum is aslo referred to as a snake

the sun god Atum is said to have ascended from chaos-waters with the appearance of a snake, the animal renewing itself every morning

Ouroboros is very closely associated with Alchemy