President John F Kennedy's speech, warning us...

originally posted by: facedye
please refrain from name-calling.

Naïve is an adjective, not a proper noun, it is not a thing, it is an action.

in my mind, there's no reason Kennedy wouldn't allude to the soviets if that's who he was actually talking about.

and again, I don't think "group of covert actors conspiring to conduct the cold war" is synonymous with "the soviets." you're reaching there, unless you have something to substantiate that claim. has he ever talked about Russia being a covert state that is run by a small group of conspirators?

Let me make this reaaaaaaaallly simple for you, when Kennedy said 'it conducts the Cold War' who was he referring to?

Space aliens? The Illuminati? Or maybe, just maybe, he was referring to the Soviet Union since, you know, they were conducting the Cold War.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: facedye
please refrain from name-calling.

Naïve is an adjective, not a proper noun, it is not a thing, it is an action.

in my mind, there's no reason Kennedy wouldn't allude to the soviets if that's who he was actually talking about.

and again, I don't think "group of covert actors conspiring to conduct the cold war" is synonymous with "the soviets." you're reaching there, unless you have something to substantiate that claim. has he ever talked about Russia being a covert state that is run by a small group of conspirators?

Let me make this reaaaaaaaallly simple for you, when Kennedy said 'it conducts the Cold War' who was he referring to?

Space aliens? The Illuminati? Or maybe, just maybe, he was referring to the Soviet Union since, you know, they were conducting the Cold War.

you called me naïve. that has no place in this discussion. play nice

so you can't substantiate your point of view with anything other than "it doesn't make sense for him to be talking about anyone other than Russia"?

OK. I respectfully disagree with you.

a reply to: facedye

You completely avoided my question.

a reply to: Encryptor

That's a good philosophy to live and die for.

Unfortunately, because of the decades of lies, manipulation and deceit it'll be decades more before we see any kind of true change for the better, I think.

Trump may seem insane (but really, who of us isn't a little on the crazy side?) at least he has his mind set on the right path: Making America great again. Even if it was all just an illusion, no one can deny that we have been revered as a great and powerful nation. Now we look like a bunch of obese, unintelligent tards. The laughing stock. That's honest.

But, people still flock here. Because it's the idea that lives. All it takes is a little faith the size of a mustard seed. Faith a powerful thing

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

the he would have used more direct language implying the Soviets. I believe he was talking about the cabal, the MIC

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
the he would have used more direct language implying the Soviets.

How much more direct do you need to be than to say, 'It runs the Cold War'?

It becomes even more obvious when you read the speeches given in the weeks before and after this one. Kennedy felt the United States was in a life and death struggle with the Soviets, this is not open for dispute.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: facedye
saying that he was "calling for more secrecy" is a direct mischaracterization of the speech.

No, it is not. The Cubans were aware of what was going to take place a week before it occurred and this was a huge embarrassment for the new Kennedy administration. He implores them to be mindful of what they publish, hence the reason he states that secrecy should not be the norm but in some cases it is required or can even be compelled by his office.

As if Castro and the Cuban people didn't know the former Junta General Batista was a US puppet and that deposing him wouldn't bring the wrath of the US military, the Mob, the CIA. As if you can't seem to admit that Kennedy was warning this nation about that very same meddlesome secret covert OP machination in the rotten core of the US Gubment.

Focusing on one little statement in a long speech to build a case against whom... Kennedy? For going (shhhh) to the press? I know you're not kidding. Or ignorant.

Theres only one other possibility. You're a good Roman AM.

Salutes... "Hail Cesar".

a reply to: intrptr

Almost all off your posts are hysterical irrelevance which systemically avoid the topic.

Answer the question, when Kennedy says 'it runs the Cold War' who is he talking about?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

"IT" meaning the propaganda the press runs on behalf of the Shadow Gubment. Disinformation, outright lies, narrative designed to influence the mass mind to fear the "commie menace", justifying more expenditure for "Defense". Which really, is offensive meddling in other sovereign nations affairs.

Like Cuba.

Kennedy was one man surrounded by a pit of vipers, carefully guarding his speech so as not to offend. What you expect him to say, F you?

originally posted by: intrptr
"IT" meaning the propaganda the press runs on behalf of the Shadow Gubment.

The same press that leaked the CIA's plans? The foreign press, including the Cubans, that published those plans?

I know you hate facts and evidence which is why you obviously did not read any of the links I supplied, otherwise you would be aware of these circumstances instead of trying to be edgy and clever with your replies.

Try again.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Almost all off your posts are hysterical irrelevance which systemically avoid the topic.

And all your posts deflect with carefully veiled insult, just to start something. You have to, you have no argument.

Weary of this BS.

Hail césar.

NOT...

a reply to: intrptr

Was that you addressing the link where foreign newspapers published the plans for the invasion?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: facedye

You completely avoided my question.

what was your question?

you mean the really snarky reflexive question you posed as to who I think he was actually talking about?

I answered that question. I don't think he was talking about the soviets. The language he uses fits your assertion as well as my own.

It's hard for me to guess who he's actually talking about, as a "covert group of conspirators" who function on an international level can be a reference to a few different organizations.

EDIT: on a purely semantic level, "they conduct the cold war" is easily applicable to *both* the Soviets and the US.

for JFK to assert that we're not in any way conducting a cold war with Russia is disingenuous and out of character. it doesn't make much sense.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
It was too late for us then as evidenced by what happened to him. The octopus tentacles run deep, very deep.

The only option left is let other free nations takeover and control America. It is coming.
If they let the other side win they can't win. That is why US military is all over the place being distracted and distracting the other side. Propaganda effected America way too much today. The Americans think the rest of the world are enemies. Time to stop watching western news.

originally posted by: facedye
It's hard for me to guess who he's actually talking about..

So that is your intellectual analysis? 'I have no idea'?

What a cop out when Kennedy is being very clear when he says 'It conducts the Cold War, in short, with a war-time discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match'. The United States was/is a democracy, the Soviets were not. The Soviets were opposed to the United States in the Cold War, not some conspiratard fantasy group.

...as a "covert group of conspirators"...

Kennedy never said that, stop inventing fictitious quotes.

for JFK to assert that we're not in any way conducting a cold war with Russia is disingenuous and out of character. it doesn't make much sense.

Thanks for telling us what Kennedy was thinking. Too bad you are wrong. In the below speech to Congress, given just a few weeks later, Kennedy mentions the Cold War again and that the Soviets are the ones we face in that war.

Stop making things up.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: facedye
It's hard for me to guess who he's actually talking about..

So that is your intellectual analysis? 'I have no idea'?

What a cop out when Kennedy is being very clear when he says 'It conducts the Cold War, in short, with a war-time discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match'. The United States was/is a democracy, the Soviets were not. The Soviets were opposed to the United States in the Cold War, not some conspiratard fantasy group.

...as a "covert group of conspirators"...

Kennedy never said that, stop inventing fictitious quotes.

for JFK to assert that we're not in any way conducting a cold war with Russia is disingenuous and out of character. it doesn't make much sense.

Thanks for telling us what Kennedy was thinking. Too bad you are wrong. In the below speech to Congress, given just a few weeks later, Kennedy mentions the Cold War again and that the Soviets are the ones we face in that war.

Stop making things up.

you're claiming I'm "making things up" by way of not understanding my point.

and "inventing fictitious quotes?"

"For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence.."

he's talking about a covert group of conspirators. lol, looks like you're just arguing to argue. that's pretty funny.

my intellectual analysis is that he could have been discussing many other groups aside from the soviets. I base that on the language he uses, the context of the period and the delivery with which he says it - same as you.

originally posted by: facedye
you're claiming I'm "making things up" by way of not understanding my point.

and "inventing fictitious quotes?"

You did, this quote you posted, "covert group of conspirators", was never uttered by Kennedy in the speech we are discussing.

"For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence.."

he's talking about a covert group of conspirators.

No, he is saying that it is a monolithic and ruthless group that uses primarily covert means to exert its influence. Stop trying to change what he is saying, it is pretty straight forward.

my intellectual analysis is that he could have been discussing many other groups aside from the soviets. I base that on the language he uses, the context of the period and the delivery with which he says it - same as you.

The only reason you are doing that is because you want to ignore the context of the times and the speeches bracketing the one in question. The Soviets were our adversary, not some other group, which is obvious even to you since when question as to who else it could have been you gave us a very detailed, 'I don't know'.

a reply to: Encryptor
I hope you do realize that you're video is missing the first half of his speech.

When reading this entire speech and taking into account the audience to which he was speaking to, the venue he was speaking at, and the events that occurred prior to the speech one can clearly see that JFK was trying to justify the recent Bay of Pigs invasion and also request that the American press exercise some self-restraint with information that is sensitive to the nation's defense and military operations. This is the opinion I take and which is taken by academic scholars. To anti-Masons and conspiracy theorists the speech has nothing to do with the press, but has become known as the "Secret Society Speech."

Anti-Masons cherry pick certain phrases and sentences to say that JFK was denouncing such groups as the Freemasons. If you look on the Internet, anti-Masons will have uploaded a video, which ignores most of the first half of the speech, and starts off with the following:

The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings.

Anti-Masons attempt to use this sentence as a means to justify their attack on fraternal groups that meet in private. Disregarding the fact that just prior to this sentence, Kennedy called for the "need for far greater official secrecy", Kennedy also states throughout the entire speech that it is centered on the roles between the President and the press. It's clear that Kennedy is speaking on the public's perception of secrecy and the public administration of the federal government. He is talking about the government being secretive and refusing to release information to the public. He was also being critical of the CIA and their failed attempts to supplant the Castro regime in Cuba.

The Bay of Pigs incident occurred 10-days prior to this speech. This was a huge disaster and an embarrassment to the Kennedy administration, which had only been in power 3-months. Five days prior to this speech, Kennedy appeared before the Society of Newspaper Editors where he spoke about the same topics and the "President and the Press" speech was a continuation, the incident still fresh in everyone's minds.

To anti-Masons though, JFK mentioning "secret societies," "secret oaths," and "secret proceedings" is enough to convince them that the President was condemning groups like Freemasonry. As I mentioned in Secrecy: What's the Big Deal?, one of the biggest criticisms I see held against Freemasonry is that we are a "secret society" and that devious and sinister plots are conspired in our meetings. I would argue that a true secret society is one that doesn't disclose membership, allow members to wear insignia, hold public ceremonies, or, particularly in America, display their meeting places so prominently. The misuse of Kennedy's speech is just a continuation of the agenda by anti-Masons and conspiracy theorists to make secrecy taboo, ignoring the fact that secrecy is a part of human nature and enjoyed by everyone. Everyone keeps secrets and practices secrecy at some level, and those who would deny their own personal secrecy couldn't withstand much questioning concerning intimate aspects of their lives without, as David Flaherty says, "capitulating to the intrusiveness of certain subject matters."

Anti-Masons claim that because Kennedy gave this speech that Freemasons, at least the "high level" Masons, had him killed. Many will make it sound like Kennedy's assassination happened shortly after giving speech, but in reality Kennedy was assassinated over two and a half years after giving the "President and the Press" speech. Ironically, if we use the same standards of what constitutes a "secret society" according to conspiracy theorists, JFK belonged to one. JFK was a member of the Knights of Columbus. Most anti-Masons that I've talked to ignore that fact about JFK or excuse it as being acceptable since it's attached to the Catholic Church.

The truth of the matter is that JFK didn't think Freemasonry was some sinister cabal scheming against the United States. Anti-Masons commonly take quotes out of context in the hopes that the unknowing and unwary will be swayed by the strange-sounding titles and the intermingling of casually-related phrases. Contrary to what anti-Masons and conspiracy theorists will say, JFK was not discussing private fraternal groups (or "secret societies"), but was merely addressing a current issue.

a reply to: intrptr
He was talking about the government and society as a whole being secret, not private fraternal organizations. And it was concerning the Bay of Pigs incident as this speech was a continuation/addition to a speech he had given days prior. At this earlier speech he was speaking to the American Society of Newspaper Editors. In the first paragraph of that speech he states:

The President of a great democracy such as ours, and the editors of great newspapers such as yours, owe a common obligation to the people: an obligation to present the facts, to present them with candor, and to present them in perspective. It is with that obligation in mind that I have decided in the last 24 hours to discuss briefly at this time the recent events in Cuba.

a reply to: facedye
People mischaracterize his speech all the time by saying he was against private fraternal organizations. He wasn't against the First Amendment.

I can see how this speech can be taken out of context, especially when it is edited and shortened. JFK was very intelligent. I think he was definitely hinting about the so called shadow government and taking jabs at the media and secret societies that participate in it. He was the president in crazy times after all, I'm sure he learned about a lot of unbelievable things. Just because a speech was written for a specific event or purpose doesn't mean it wont contain a different meaning. A speech requires a lot of thinking and phrasing, he could have easily been talking about the events in Cuba and warning TPTB at the same time. It is just like an author, song writer or director who creates a piece of work that may mean something up front but, in the background is an analogy for something else. Think fight club.