Is it important for a world leader (U.S. President) to believe in God

a reply to: ketsuko

If a candidate wants me to vote for him or her and they want to be atheist in their belief, then they must be able to clearly and rationally and believably articulate why our individual, unalienable rights are ours, belonging to us as individuals and no other power on earth, and should not be tampered with and oppressed in any way or removed.

Humanism.

Humanism for the world.

Too hard a concept for you to grasp?

a reply to: ketsuko

Without the idea that those rights derive from an agency outside of and beyond the agency of a power of mankind, then you start to have a hard time rationalizing why those rights ought to be sacred.

OR...religious people struggle with the idea that people can be moral and have values and see these Rights as 'sacred' without religion. You not understanding how we non-religious/secular people achieve this here on Earth doesn't mean it isn't happening.

I know you want to believe people necessarily have a moral deficit without religion, and that morality comes from religion. That's simply not the reality we live in. It only exists in a reality you create in your mind about this "outside agency" in respect to how you perceive our morality.

Case in point. My family has run a long-term care home for medically fragile children since I was a child (i'm early 30s now). I would say more than half the parents have been monsters. Abused their kids. Don't care about their children. Don't want to see them after they get placed in our care home. Abused and abandoned. The vast majority of these parents are Christian. Also, my entire family that runs this care home is atheist.

I can believe in humanity and strive to make the World a healthier and happier place and never open a religious book or step inside a church. Lots do.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I know you want to believe people necessarily have a moral deficit without religion, and that morality comes from religion. That's simply not the reality we live in. It only exists in a reality you create in your mind about this "outside agency" in respect to how you perceive our morality.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Because of the leaders we have had over the last 70 years, have taken God out of the public arena this is what our nation looks like full of covetous, liars, murderers

Jer 8:10 Therefore will I give their wives unto others, [and] their fields to them that shall inherit them: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness, from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.
Jer 22:17 But thine eyes and thine heart are not but for thy covetousness, and for to shed innocent blood, and for oppression, and for violence, to do it.

This is a scripture describing Israel because they had forgotten their God. And now we see it in out nation as well.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Because of the leaders we have had over the last 70 years, have taken God out of the public arena this is what our nation looks like full of covetous, liars, murderers

Jer 8:10 Therefore will I give their wives unto others, [and] their fields to them that shall inherit them: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness, from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.
Jer 22:17 But thine eyes and thine heart are not but for thy covetousness, and for to shed innocent blood, and for oppression, and for violence, to do it.

This is a scripture describing Israel because they had forgotten their God. And now we see it in out nation as well.

This ^^ is the point of view of someone who is unable to see reality.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Xaphan

Religious people actually have lower IQs on average; I'd much rather my country be run by a non-religious person for that reason alone.

Well look no further cause your dream has come true. You got her. Best of luck cause you are really going to need all the luck in the world. I did not realize that you guys took a poll or something to know that you are superior to others.

Yeah, time for another Stalin, Mao or PolPot as a leader
It's just to easy to act like I ther fundamentalists

Those fellas were very intelligent

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Because of the leaders we have had over the last 70 years, have taken God out of the public arena this is what our nation looks like full of covetous, liars, murderers

Jer 8:10 Therefore will I give their wives unto others, [and] their fields to them that shall inherit them: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness, from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.
Jer 22:17 But thine eyes and thine heart are not but for thy covetousness, and for to shed innocent blood, and for oppression, and for violence, to do it.

This is a scripture describing Israel because they had forgotten their God. And now we see it in out nation as well.

This ^^ is the point of view of someone who is unable to see reality.

Hey buzz, don't want to get into a blue but

What do you attribute the US,s slide into economic and social destruction on, just out of interest, or do you believe it is all good
It's interesting to note Trump is selling the "make America great again" line
What did America lose to now not be great? According to him anyway

a reply to: ChesterJohn

have taken God out of the public arena

In what manner has it been taken out?

Also, a quote:



The Founding Fathers wanted religion out of government. This way people would be free to practice any religion or none at all.

What do you want for the public?

a reply to: Raggedyman

What do you attribute the US,s slide into economic and social destruction on, just out of interest, or do you believe it is all good

Of course I don't think it's all good.

What a bizarre ad hominem slam.....

But, if you must: I attribute it to the GOP activity during the Bush administration; for example the failure to rein in the banks; for the Dirty Wars during which he was Commander in Chief. If ANYONE belongs in prison or in a global tribunal trial it is G W Bush, and Cheney and Rumsfeld and Gingrich (the smarmy someofititch).

The stock market crashed. It was on W's watch (George W Bush). Also on his watch was 9/11. War is bad. There were no WMDs in Iran. Maybe you are just now becoming aware of this. Just like if I were to follow Australia news, I would know more about the history of the recent tension or achievements. But I don't.

So, I can only surmise out of respect that you are lacking actual factual information in your view of it from the opposite side of the planet.
Things are not just "all good." Not by a long shot.

Reality: "God" has nothing to do with any of it.

It is people's imaginations that there is any mention of "God" at all! And meanwhile, "God" has become a major player and weapon and scapegoat and antagonist in this whole spectacle, and the character needs to be removed from the agenda altogether.

Because your "God" guy has nothing to do with any of this.

This is humanity working out its issues.



I attribute its ongoing friction to people who read Green Eggs and Ham TO OTHER ADULTS IN ORDER TO AVOID DISCUSSION rather than improving their own knowledge and building a formidable strategy. (Reading it to one's kids is fine). I attribute it to the media, and to the general apathy orchestrated by all of those things.

I attribute it to Alex Jones, and the 700 Club, and Glenn Beck, and O'Reilly's 'factor'. To Jerry Springer and the National Enquirer.


To what do you attribute this charade and pathetic excuse for an election?

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

can believe in humanity and strive to make the World a healthier and happier place and never open a religious book or step inside a church. Lots do.

And ^^THIS^^




(where've you been, man?)

a reply to: Xaphan

Do you actually think Trump believes in god? He's too smart to believe in god. He's a manipulator; he'll say anything to get votes. Hillary is just as much of a turd as he is though. They are both snakes in their own way.

Truthfully? I do not really know. There are manipulators in religions as well as politics so I guess we have them all over the place. I don't believe its either one so much as it is the people. The nation is lazy and degenerate. It has become a killing factory not only for babies but other nations as well. I see nothing left to salvage except the few that love Jesus.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Raggedyman

What do you attribute the US,s slide into economic and social destruction on, just out of interest, or do you believe it is all good

Of course I don't think it's all good.

What a bizarre ad hominem slam.....

I dont see it as an ad anything
Its not for me to put words in your mouth, I gave you two options

What do you attribute the USs slide into economic and social destruction to, OR, do you believe it is all good

Thats two options, no adds anywhere, just questions

So you blame the politicians and the media

I think its about the lack of morals, coming from politicians and the media

Thats interesting isnt it

a reply to: Raggedyman

I think its about the lack of morals, coming from politicians and the media

What does that mean to you? Why are they lacking the morality necessary to lead?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I took a looong break from ATS and then focused on my FB Groups. Now i've disabled Facebook because I thought it a great distraction and wanted to focus on some life stuff. Namely my art and some business venture. On my vacation from FB, I realized I missed ATS a lot.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs


To what do you attribute this charade and pathetic excuse for an election?

and this

I attribute it to Alex Jones, and the 700 Club, and Glenn Beck, and O'Reilly's 'factor'. To Jerry Springer and the National Enquirer.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Well, at least we both understand that part of it.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Wigs, I am as about as real (reality) as one can get.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Wigs, I am as about as real (reality) as one can get.

That's quaint. I feel ya...I understand your genuine angst and obsession.

I just can't condone anyone else taking a dose of what you're serving up. Do whatever, but please do not suck others, especially young thoughtful bright adolescents, into your ...... camp. Church. Compound.

Please.
They are having a hard enough time growing up - tossing them a fictional line is not productive. Instead, help them learn life skills like using libraries and the internet - how to research issues and to appreciate current events without the lens of a fiery end to distract them.

I insist. And until you do, I will pester you to stop. It's my calling. My raison d'etre, if you will: to stop people like you from infecting our youth; promising young people and family-starting Millennials. You are deliberately trying to inject them with the same serum that exacerbates the very condition under which your sad soul suffers now.

Don't be the guy who hampers their growth and spiritual development. They are way ahead of us, and your style is proving to be counterproductive at every turn.

So please. Stop. Save them, at least (if not yourself), from the weight of it.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

and my fear Buzz

You will suck those same young thoughtful bright adolescents into you hate filled fundamentalist attitude, no better than the worst religious nutter
Everything I despise about religious fundamentalists is seen in you, you are the wesboro of atheism

Your country took a huge dive that it will never recover from when atheism became mainstream, you are now reaping it with Clinton and Trump

a reply to: Raggedyman

when atheism became mainstream

The USA is still majority Christian (like 70%). Once being non-religious actually becomes the norm you might be able to attribute that 'huge dive' to atheism... Although, I think the nation will only improve as a result.

a reply to: Raggedyman

lol. you still don't grasp the fact that I'm not an atheist.

how very typical of you, and rude.