The United States of .. Germany

Does anyone know where the Great Seal of the United States of America comes from?



Most people will not guess it.

The Great Seal of the United States of America comes from the coat of arms of Austria.



Go ahead, compare the two side-by-side..



Now many will wonder, what in the world does Austria have to do with the United States of America?

Its OK not to know. Americans were probably meant to be ignorant of these things. I will explain..

Austria used to be headquarters of The Holy Roman Empire.

The largest territory of the empire after 962 was the Kingdom of Germany, though it also came to include the Kingdom of Bohemia (The Czech Republic), the Kingdom of Burgundy (Southern France), the Kingdom of Italy, and numerous other territories.

- Holy Roman Empire

The Holy Roman Empire included:

The Kingdom of Germany - You all know where that is.
The Kingdom of Bohemia - The Czech Republic
The Kingdom of Burgundy - A region of Southern France which includes Nice, Monaco and Marseille
The Kingdom of Italy - Included about 2/3 of northern Italy



Later dynasties Holy Roman Empire spread well into England/Ireland, France, Russia, Portugal, Spain.

The House of Habsburg, or House of Austria, was one of the most influential royal houses of Europe. The throne of the Holy Roman Empire was continuously occupied by the Habsburgs between 1438 and 1740. The house also produced emperors and kings of the Kingdom of Bohemia, Kingdom of England (Jure uxoris King), Kingdom of France (Queen consort), Kingdom of Germany, Kingdom of Hungary, Empire of Russia, Kingdom of Croatia, Second Mexican Empire, Kingdom of Ireland (Jure uxoris King), Kingdom of Portugal, and Habsburg Spain, as well as rulers of several Dutch and Italian principalities.

- House of Habsburg

My feelings are that the visible dynasties are not the actual 'powers that be', but the real people with influence are behind the scenes as they are today.

I think power structures developed far before these dynasties, from the days of the Roman Empire and even before that.

The symbolism of the Holy Roman Empire shows the extent of their influence:

- Leopold V (1157 - 1194)

Note the symbolism I circled from these early times. It is the same symbolism used for England, Wales and France (Their fleur-de-lis).

I believe these invisible power structures behind the thrones of the past, and ministers of the present hold a great influence over all of these countries to the present day - collectively known as The West - Europe, America and its allies.

I believe they orchestrate wars with each other to achieve their goals. To rake untold fortune and maintain their power/control.

-----

When they appoint people to positions of power they use these badges:

You can see them here on Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor.

Tsar Romanov Nicholas II, Emperor of All the Russias 1894 - 1917 with the same badges.

Abdul Mecid II, Caliph of the Ottoman Caliphate (Empire) 1922 - 1924

Abdülaziz, Sultan of the Ottoman Empire 1861 – 1876

Napoléon Bonaparte 1804 - 1814

Emperor Hirohito, Emperor of Japan (1926 - 1989)

Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi, Shah of Iran


I think their sphere of influence is beyond what anyone may imagine ..

The Fasces hidden under the George Washington monument on the front steps of Federal Hall National Memorial, in New York City erected in 1883.


The Fasces on the Lincoln Memorial in Washington DC


The Fasces in the US House




Fasces on the Mercury dime


SS pins




German coin


Italian Fasces


Roman Fasces


The Fasces of Rome, originated from earlier Etruscan and Minoan civilisations.

The eagle has been the symbol of empires since Rome.

a reply to: nOraKat

Wow...! Great thread! This is the kind of stuff that first got me hooked on ATS...

Masons...


Always their way or the highway!

Good thread.

a reply to: nOraKat

The Great Seal of the United States of America comes from the coat of arms of Austria.

Or, vice versa?

Adopted 1782 US Seal

Adopted 1945 Coat of Arms Austria

originally posted by: EightAhoy
a reply to: nOraKat

The Great Seal of the United States of America comes from the coat of arms of Austria.

Or, vice versa?

Adopted 1782 US Seal

Adopted 1945 Coat of Arms Austria

Not Vice Versa ..

The origin as someone pointed out is from the Roman Empire and later adopted by the Holy Roman Empire and before that the Hittites.

Double-headed eagle with coats of arms of individual states, symbol of the Holy Roman Empire (painting from 1510)


Single headed eagle, Leopold V (1157 - 1194), Holy Roman Empire


Scottish Rite Eagle from Morals and Dogma

Not sure, I think Hittite..

Some related links for anyone interested:

On the Development of World Power Structures - Part I

On the Development of World Power Structures - Part 2

The Bohemian Grove, as in The Kingdom of Bohemia - a main principality of The Holy Roman Empire.

I thought it an interesting connection..



Two future presidents sit at the Bohemian Grove in 1967 with the flags of France and Denmark in the background.

France is formerly part of the Holy Roman Empire, and the Denmark flag can be seen as one of the coat of arms of individual states in the Holy Roman Empire (below) -

a reply to: nOraKat

Nice thread!

But the Red-White-Flag flag in Bohemian grove is not France. Its hanging 90 degrees turned. ( The white line is the pole side )

My Guess it is a Dutch Flag. ( Note: The Dutch were the first Nation to recognize the "independent" United States )

originally posted by: Syphon
The eagle has been the symbol of empires since Rome.

With the exception of the empires that did not have an eagle, which is most. In fact it's easer to count the small number of empires that used the eagle symbol than those that did not. If using the the coat of arms of Austria as the baseline, then one needs to note that the Soviet Union and other communist states took the hammer and sickle symbols as their own i.e. what the Austrian eagle (or is it a chicken) is holding.

Empires without an eagle... Great Britain, Japan, Spanish, Portuguese, all of the African empires e.g. Mali Empire, all of the South and Central American empires, the Chinese empires, the Soviet empire, and so on.

The eagle is just a symbol. Just like Great Britain has the lion and unicorn in the coat of arms. Symbolism is what makes countries and roots history, the present and the future.

On the fasces. Well this is just a symbol that has been used off and on since before the Romans. Just because the fascists used it does not make the symbol and the tradition invalid. I am no scholar of the USA, but I guess it's a reference to the republic concept as used on-and-off by the Romans.

The papal bull in the boat with the tree of life and the tree of knowledge controlling the eagle (USA) the crown (Royals) and the world.

The Vatican AKA The Holy Roman Empire is behind World War 3. All the countries are on the same side. It is us the people that are there 'enemy'. They want the world for them selves. Always have, always will. We are a cancer to the Vatican.

Allegory of Boat, Wolf, and Eagle - by Leonardo Da Vinci sails toward a globe surmounted by a crowned eagle. The drawing, which is at Windsor Castle, was probably made for the wedding of Giuliani de Medici to Philiberta of Savoy. It is another example of Leonardo's taste for the fantastic, which he never lost despite the strong rational core of his temperament.

a reply to: nOraKat

It's a beautiful autumn day. Why not go outside, get some nice fresh air. Take a stroll and enjoy the changing foliage. Perhaps a slight chill will help clear your head.

a reply to: EartOccupant

Which red white flag are you talking about? I was talking about the flags in the picture above.

Red and white stripes turned either vertically of horizontally (as in the American Flag) originate from the Holy Roman Empire as seen in the Jost De Necker wood cut above.




Leopold V (1157 - 1194)

Two future presidents sit at the Bohemian Grove in 1967 with the flags of France and Denmark in the background.

That one : )

Edit: I now see the confusion... I forgot to mention the Bleu !

Mea Culpa. ( But the flag is still Dutch )

a reply to: nOraKat

Another mystery laid to rest.

a reply to: nOraKat

If its any consolation, the Germans took our salute, the Bellamy salute.

originally posted by: nOraKat

You are cherry picking the similarities and ignoring the differences. Just because two things are similar does not mean one came from the other. Basically the only similarity you've got here is a left facing bird with its wings spread. Now look at all the differences.

1. Austrian bird has a crown. US eagle does not.
2. US seal has a bevy of 13 stars (the colonies) above. Austrian bird has nothing.
3. Austrian bird has broken chains on its feet. US eagle does not.
4. Austrian bird holds hammer and sickle in its claws. US eagle holds olive branch and arrows (Peace and war)
5. American eagle carries the "e pluribis unum" phrase. The Austrian bird carries nothing

Now, did the Founding Fathers understand they were borrowing symbolism from European kingdoms? Probably. They were, after all, establishing a New World Order. They were, on the whole, educated and erudite. It would make sense. Washington, D.C. is shock full of symbols of empire. Just compare the Capitol building in proximity of the Washington Monument with the Vatican in proximity with the Egyptian monolith. Nobody could look at those two scenes and claim it was an accident. In the same vein Masonic symbolism occurs throughout American tradition. Why? Because the guys who set it all up were Masons.

These issues are well-known. The problem occurs when people attempt to attach hidden meanings and conspiracies when there is no evidence. The fact that some Native American cultures and some cultures on the Indian sub-continent used a swastika as a symbol and the Nazis did, too, does not imply a "connection" between them. And that's what is being done here. These things look kinda sorta similar, therefore they are actually the same and one came wholly from the other is a false leap of logic. If you're going to accept that, then you also have to be consistent and accept the "fact" that Fascism came from India because, you know, swastikas.

Eagles are regal-looking birds. They kinda look the same. They're large hawks. But a German black eagle. the Reichsadler, isn't the same as an American bald eagle any more than a Seahawk is actually a hawk or even an eagle. It's an osprey (Pandion haliaetus.) That things look alike does not mean they were derived from one another or that they mean the same thing symbolically.

a reply to: eisegesis


George Carling was a Freemason. As you can see in the image below he is clearly doing a masonic hand gesture.