Psychiatry, Psychology, and/or other Mental Health Care -related Fields

a reply to: Bluesma

I'm just curious, have you read all of my posts in my thread here?:

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1134355/

What do you think about the situation between me and my psychiatrist as described in that thread?

I ask because when I told my psychologist all of that, and I told him that I was starting to think that I imagined the whole thing possibly due to symptoms of a disorder such as schizophrenia, he told me, "no. You definitely did not imagine any of it."

But then when I tried pointing this out to my psychiatrist, he said, "there was nothing unusual or inappropriate about our behavior." He later added, "you imagined the whole thing. You're not hallucinating, but you're experiencing delusions."

Aw, dang. For whatever reason my link didn't get pasted properly.

I will try again:

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1134355/pg1

originally posted by: Bluesma
A psychologist carries no weight against a psychiatrist... you do realize that a psychiatrist is an MD? A psychologist is not.

I can't imagine the psychologist wants to get involved in this.
Especially if all this you are doing is to try to keep taking a drug that the psychiatrist thinks you should be weened off of. (that you yourself pointed out is often used recreationally).

It's too bad you don't recognize what is innappropriate about what you are asking of the psychologist, I see it all feels rather unjust to you. But it seems obvious to me. Hope you find some sort of solution! Good luck to you!

OK. Here's what I really don't get.

My psychologist typed up my psychological evaluation report and saved the two pages as a .pdf file, then sent it over to me... and when I got it, I noticed that he got the day on my birthdate wrong. When I pointed this out to him, he apologized and told me that I could correct the error myself. So then I was thinking, "well now, this is awkward... so here I have my psychological evaluation report which I could easily edit, in fact, I could have easily written this entire thing by myself. And the psychologist who wrote all of this doesn't even want to speak to my psychiatrist over the phone, because he doesn't like having to deal with psychiatrists. And whenever I try calling my psychologist, it always go straight to voice mail. And he's telling me now that he's going to stop responding to my e-mails. So how the hell am I supposed to prove that this psychological evaluation report was actually written by a real psychologist? What if I wanted to seek employment with... like, say... law enforcement, would I have to see another psychologist and pay him another $700 to write my another psychological evaluation report?"

The human body is very complex. I believe that all systems are connected and anything can affect health.

Most doctors are specialists and don't look at the body as a whole.

Example a stressful psychological trauma can lead to a diagnosis of asthma or eczema.

I've also noticed that certain foods (like dairy) can make some people feel depressed while others feel euphoric. I've known some parents who keep their kids off food dyes or processed foods because the kid changes personality.

How is your diet?

I do think what we put into our bodies, whether it be food, drink, emotional energies, what we look at an expose ourselves, etc.... Should be nourishing to your individual self.

originally posted by: Quasiscientist
So how the hell am I supposed to prove that this psychological evaluation report was actually written by a real psychologist? What if I wanted to seek employment with... like, say... law enforcement, would I have to see another psychologist and pay him another $700 to write my another psychological evaluation report?"

No, an evaluation from a psychologist is for YOU- unless it is one that is especially licensed for the court system. My step mother is one of those. Not only is hard to become one of those, but then you have a strange life- you are not allowed to be on any social media (like Facebook), all your communications with anyone, by telephone or otherwise, are observed and recorded. It is very restraining, to keep you from being influenced in judgement by others or revealing any information about the subjects you are assigned to evaluate.

That report was for you, and has no value to anyone else. Like I said, an evaluation from a psychiatrist trumps one from a psychologist. Psychology being a "soft science", psychiatry being medicine (biological, physical).

He has no power faced with your psychiatrist. All he can do is try to woo you to stop seeing the psychiatrist and see him instead, by your own choice. Sounds like he started with that, and it didn't work, so he's stepping out. (and what you are doing is creepy and stalkerish.

originally posted by: Bluesma

originally posted by: Quasiscientist
So how the hell am I supposed to prove that this psychological evaluation report was actually written by a real psychologist? What if I wanted to seek employment with... like, say... law enforcement, would I have to see another psychologist and pay him another $700 to write my another psychological evaluation report?"

No, an evaluation from a psychologist is for YOU- unless it is one that is especially licensed for the court system. My step mother is one of those. Not only is hard to become one of those, but then you have a strange life- you are not allowed to be on any social media (like Facebook), all your communications with anyone, by telephone or otherwise, are observed and recorded. It is very restraining, to keep you from being influenced in judgement by others or revealing any information about the subjects you are assigned to evaluate.

That report was for you, and has no value to anyone else. Like I said, an evaluation from a psychiatrist trumps one from a psychologist. Psychology being a "soft science", psychiatry being medicine (biological, physical).

He has no power faced with your psychiatrist. All he can do is try to woo you to stop seeing the psychiatrist and see him instead, by your own choice. Sounds like he started with that, and it didn't work, so he's stepping out. (and what you are doing is creepy and stalkerish.

Well that just #ing sucks.

So I basically just wasted $700 on... nothing, really.

And my psychiatrist can basically do and say whatever the # he wants because he's basically just making up the rules as he goes along. I mean, who's to say that these "delusions" that I'm supposedly experiencing are really delusions at all? Why does my psychiatrist have the authority to decide what "delusions" are? Why should he have the authority over a psychologist? Just because my psychiatrist prescribes medication, his authority is above that of a psychologist's? What the hell kind of bull# is that?

And then I have my psychiatrist telling me, "right... well, we've known you a lot longer than your psychologist. And I'm telling you now that you're experiencing delusions."

Which is just a ridiculous thing to say because I've only met with my psychiatrist for 5 sessions, each session can only be up to 20 minutes long, and costs $150. So that would be 100 minutes in total spent with my psychiatrist.

Compare that to my psychologist, who I met for 7 sessions, each session being 60 minutes long, and costing $100... so that's 420 minutes in total right there.

And I've been taking Adderall nearly every day for almost two years, and my psychiatrist is suddenly deciding now to stop prescribing me it? Just because I'm experiencing "delusions"? And the guy can just make up his own definition for what a "delusion" and I can't do jack # about it?

I have paranoid schizophrenia and I've dealt with many psychiatrist over the years. There are good doctors and bad doctors. Some doctors will tell you there is something wrong with you and throw pills at you. Some doctors will throw pills at you that are addictive just to keep you coming back. My advice would be not seek medical help unless what ever your problem is it's effecting your ability to lead a normal life. Medications are seriously mind altering substances. I know a few people that are worse off now then before they sought out help. If you need help contact you local hospital and ask for a doctor recommendation.

Mental illness is a real medical problem. Our minds are made up of chemical reactions and pills do have an effect. I've been in psyche wards and I've seen a lot of mental illnesses.

I was normal early in life. My illness struck in my late teens. No one could figure out what was wrong with me. I was become hostile and paranoid. It got to a point I quit leaving the house. I started having severe delusions which are false beliefs. Then I started having visual hallucinations. It's wasn't until I starting having auditory hallucinations in the form of voices that I was able to get diagnose. It was a 2 year decent into madness. I knew something was wrong with me but I didn't know what. I was seriously ill to the point I wouldn't eat. I was so paranoid I thought people were poisoning my food.

The medication I take does help. I've been taking the same medication for 20 years. It stopped the hallucinations and delusions. But the thing is with schizophrenia what works for one person might not work for another when it comes to medication. No two minds are identical.

I've taken anti depressants and they mess me up. I stay away form them. Some people need them though. I've seen people with severe bi polar where they can be laughing one minute and crying two minutes later. Depression is the most common mental illness but not everyone needs help for it.

Medications have the ability to help. Without them I wouldn't be typing this. Every day I wake up thankful for modern medicine. If it were the 1920's I'd be locked in a padded room in a psyche ward. The brain is the most complicated organ we have. It makes us who we are. It also can stop working properly just like the pancreas when people get diabetes. There are a multitude of ways the brain can malfunction. Doctors have come a long way in understanding how the brain works but there are still many things unknown about it to science. There are chemical reactions and receptors and all kinds of stuff. They know chemicals effect mood and other things. The medication I take blocks a chemical in the brain called dopamine. Antidepressants increase a chemical called serotonin which makes people happy. Since the medication I take blocks dopamine one of it's side effects is similar to parkinsons. In parkinsons disease the brain has a difficult time producing enough dopamine.

Did you know that someone in a mental hospital eating poop out of the toilet is saying that they need someone who understands the mechanics of the universe to talk to them because everyone around them has not figured out that eating poop out of the toilet is the same as a black hole swallowing up any and all material around it in space which includes aliens using it as a way to dispose of excrement aboard space craft.

Meaning they are generally people alot more intelligent then their social circle as it turns out they were smarter then friends and they all got together and decided to remove them from society by saying they are crazy and they played the karma game and went with it without being a psychopath so they could put a hex on them and their lineage for tryin to ruin someones life because they were intelligent.

I just found out I have a BRAIN abnormality I can ...almost tell where it is...I think ITS a space of some kind and I'M quite sure I have Gerstmann's Dyscalculia syndrome but ONLY my Right eye is off, my left is 20/20
Balance is good hands are good ,but MATH isn't possible and I can't control it ,I loose my place AND use my fingers
According the VA, I was born this way...so it MUST not be about the experimental vaccines or nerve agent ingestion...

So I just received my updated MedRec from my psychiatrist's practice...

101716 md150 30 min rc

O: Confronted patient about all of the accusations and conclusively denied all of the accusations. Depression 9/10. Anxiety 5/10. Irritability 2/10. Happiness 3/10. Calmness 6/10. Gratitude 9/10. Appearance: wearing dark sunglasses, wearing a hat, and carrying a backpack. No AIMS. Constricted affect as before. Linear thought process. Has delusions concerning Dr. Ude's behaviors. No hallucinations. Limited insight. Fair judgement.

A: Delusional Disorder, erotomanic type f22. R/O Schizotypal Personality Disorder. ADHD

P: Will taper patient off of Adderall XR and switch him to a different medication as we're not sure if Adderall XR is accentuating his delusional thoughts. Decrease Adderall XR to 20mg bid, #60. Informed patient that he should not be obtaining Adderall XR from other providers while we taper his Adderall XR and if he did, then we could no longer prescribe him Adderall XR. He understood and agreed.

Well, now. This is awkward. So apparently I have "delusional disorder" now? I don't know what to think anymore.

originally posted by: Bluesma
No, an evaluation from a psychologist is for YOU- unless it is one that is especially licensed for the court system. My step mother is one of those. Not only is hard to become one of those, but then you have a strange life- you are not allowed to be on any social media (like Facebook), all your communications with anyone, by telephone or otherwise, are observed and recorded. It is very restraining, to keep you from being influenced in judgement by others or revealing any information about the subjects you are assigned to evaluate.

That report was for you, and has no value to anyone else. Like I said, an evaluation from a psychiatrist trumps one from a psychologist. Psychology being a "soft science", psychiatry being medicine (biological, physical).

He has no power faced with your psychiatrist. All he can do is try to woo you to stop seeing the psychiatrist and see him instead, by your own choice. Sounds like he started with that, and it didn't work, so he's stepping out. (and what you are doing is creepy and stalkerish.

You don't think that it is a bit absurd how a psychologist tells me that I'm not delusional, but a psychiatrist tells me that I am delusional? I mean, I have given the same information to both men, but I've gotten different results. It's like they both have different definitions as to what a "delusion" is. My psychiatrist is basically redefining what it means to be "delusional". And it's not like "delusions" have mechanical underpinnings, they can't be identified physically with MRI, fMRI, CT, CAT, PET scans, etc. or anything like that. And I've actually had a lot more time (420 minutes in total) to speak with my psychologist and give him information about myself, compared to the ~100 minutes that I've spoken to my psychiatrist. It doesn't make any sense. None of this makes any sense. How is any of this supposed to make any sense to anyone?

Does anybody here understand what I'm trying to say?

Q

My sincere apologies. I did indeed get busy and left you waiting way too long. So I am not terribly sure if you will even want to hear from me at this point.

There is a massive deal of reading which I just finished in both threads. Understand that this IS NOT professional advice as I am not your psychotherapist.

There is no question that there are several bad doctors, psychologists, therapists, etc out there. No question at all. But I would recommend that when looking back at all these experiences, consider that all told, there are 5 or more professionals telling you that something is amiss. This is NOT A JUDGMENT ON YOU! Consider the common denominator is you. If several professionals have a concern with behavior or thought process of one client, then it becomes less likely that it is the professionals who may be mistaken.

Again...this IS NOT A JUDGMENT ON YOU! You are a good person and deserve care. But awareness is key regarding things like these. There may be something to consider going on in your life.

Mental illness is very real and needs to be cared for with compassion. All those things you said in the original post are nasty stigma at best and need to be eradicated. So I'm just going to pass that and get to the meat of the conversation.

Adderall can absolutely cause or exacerbate delusions. Because it is an amphetamine-based stimulant, it works by increasing brain activity. If there is delusion, psychosis, hallucination (whichever) already in play, then by increasing external, chemical stimulation, those psychotic effects will likely increase.

As far as emailing the psychologist. If the psychologist was available for testing, then his/her role ends at testing. To continue to email him/her is pushing boundaries ethical, personal, and professional boundaries. Furthermore, explaining diagnosis by email is borderline at best and dangerous at worst. Part of diagnosis, testing and assessment is explaining the results. It is dangerous because of two reasons.

First, if the client fails to understanding something, there is a massive delay in returning a question. This can lead to serious misunderstandings.

Second, the psychologist cannot read your cues and you cannot read theirs. This means that all context can be lost immediately.

Unfortunately, I cannot and will not go further regarding diagnosis because that would be pushing boundaries regarding professional care.

I can try to answer basics and advanced stuff as long as it is general.

Best of luck

originally posted by: KyoZeroMy sincere apologies. I did indeed get busy and left you waiting way too long. So I am not terribly sure if you will even want to hear from me at this point.

Hello again, KyoZero. Thank you very much for responding. I greatly appreciate it. However, I was still curious as to what you thought about what I wrote in my other thread here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I've been asking around in another internet forum (outside of Above Top Secret) and nobody seems to be able to give me a straight answer. Everybody just keeps telling me that what I'm describing would be "unethical" and/or "illegal", and therefore "impossible", because apparently psychiatrists are infallible and untouchable and would never do anything that is either unethical or illegal. Nobody has been able to link me to any web pages regarding the "code of ethics" for either the: American Psychiatric Association, and/or the American Psychological Association, or the American Nurses Association, or American Psychiatric Nurses Association, or the Medical Board of California web sites, or something... something that can confirm, once and for all, that what I'm describing is "impossible", because it would be "unethical" or "illegal", and if what I'm describing is really happening... I want to know what could I possibly do about it?

Over these past four months I have been calling various phone numbers that were given to me by people telling me that I'd be able to come in contact with an attorney who can help me. I've already called over twenty different phone numbers including the following: the County of Los Angeles Info Regarding Health and Social Services, City of Los Angeles Info Regarding Health and Social Services, Los Angeles County Bar Association Smart Law Information Tapes, Los Angeles County Bar Association Attorney Referral/Consultation, Protection & Advocacy (for disabled citizens), Los Angeles County Department of Mental Service/Intake (Patient line), Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health Administrative, Santa Monica Lawyer Referral, Lawyers Referral Service, Legal Aid Foundation of Los Angeles, Doctor Misconduct/CA State Medical Board, Legal Aid Society of Orange County, Neighborhood Legal Services of Los Angeles County, San Gabriel Valley Lawyer, Lawyers Referral Service, Orange County Bar Association Lawyer Referral Service, SmartLaw Lawyer Referrals, State Bar of California Attorney Complaints.

I've called several of these places, spoken to several different people, repeated my questions and concerns, been transferred over to other numbers and referred to several different people and places, been given the run-around, been hung up on, and so far everybody has refused to answer my questions and give me any real advice.

One person told me that they'd only be able to help me if I had insurance (which I don't.)

Another person told me that mental health care workers are professionals and that they know what is best for me, then I was disconnected very quickly after.

I just finished speaking with an attorney who told me that he could only help me if I showed up to his office in person with a check for $950 and my medical records and that I'd probably end up paying more later.

What could I do when not even the law is willing to help me?

Everybody else that I've asked about this on the internet is simply telling me that I'm being paranoid and that I should forget about all of this, and move on with my life. But I can't.

Instead of letting this thread drag on for another six months or so, I'm just gonna go right ahead straight to the point. The real reason I started these threads in the first place. The real reason why it is that I'm so obsessed with the idea that I was secretly assessed by my psychiatrist and/or some of the other providers of his practice for personality disorders with neither my knowledge nor consent. The real reason why it is that I care more about that (and its legal implications) than both my diagnosis and treatment (as I've said before, I'm not even sure that any of the disorders that I've been diagnosed with are "real", and that I don't feel that they're worth wasting any time and/or money on any sort of "treatment" for them)... was because of the person whom I refer to as "Dr. Ude" in my story, which I've posted in my other thread.

I'm not sure how many of you believe anything of what I've written so far, if I've possibly exaggerated and/or fabricated most (if not all) of what I've written... I don't know how many of you are still reading this thread, maybe out of morbid curiosity in trying to figure out what's going on inside of my head, or out of genuine interest in trying to help me. But here goes. You can choose to ignore this entire post if you'd like, it's entirely your choice. I realize that I have no real way of proving any of this.

So, then. Basically... this person whom I refer to as "Dr. Ude"... I, well. I'm not exactly sure what happened between us, I'm not sure how to describe it... I don't know if it's what some might call "transference of love" or "erotomania" or a symptom of "narcissistic personality disorder" or whatever... but I seem to have developed some very strong feelings for her. Maybe it's "love". Hell, it's the closest thing to "love" I've ever felt. And I genuinely believed that she had similar feelings for me. But considering everything that's happened these last few months, I find myself completely confused now. I don't know how many of you have bothered reading everything that I've written in this thread... but surely some of you should be able to see why I find my situation to be incredibly baffling, confusing, frustrating, bizarre... and why I feel absolutely devastated.

I don't understand why her superior (my psychiatrist, whom I refer to in my post as: "Dr. Cha") defends her. Ultimately, the only two options that I'm left with to explain what's happening at this point would be:

1. My psychiatrist and the other providers of his practice are #ing with my head.

2. My perception of reality is so disturbed, I can no longer trust in my own senses. I seem to be experiencing some combination of confabulations, hallucinations, and/or delusions. I can no longer trust anything that I experience. And yet my psychologist tells me that I am neither experiencing delusions, nor hallucinations, nor schizophrenia, nor any schizophrenic-like disorders. And my psychiatrist is telling me that I'm experiencing only delusions, not hallucinations or confabulations. I'm not sure why one doctor's opinion should have any greater authority than another's.

I don't know what to think anymore. Nothing makes sense. Do you guys understand what I'm typing here or is all of this just word salad?

a reply to: Quasiscientist

I have no reason to not believe your words because ultimately, either you are being messed with or your thinking is distorted. So again, I have to answer this in general terms.

When people have distorted thinking, it is not that we professionals know better. We have the education and professional experience over you. However, YOU are the expert on you. Psychosis and hallucination and delusion are difficult to work as professionals because at the core of the issue, the client does not know they are suffering distortions. I have never had a lot of fear of talking about who I am. I am an addict. I am a recovering addict and have been clean 6 years. Today, I can be told all of what I did an with clarity of thought, I realize and agree with it. 7 years ago, knee deep in my addiction, there was an internal denial that could not be broken. So to in delusion, hallucination, distortion. It can be exceptionally difficult to point out to a person that their lawyer is not inside the wall listening to us even if we X-Ray the wall live and in view of the client. This is why delusion is so important to break if possible.

I have gotten through all of your other post and again deeply apologize for forgetting for so long. As I stated on page 2

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You likely don't have much of a case. NOTE THIS IS NOT LEGAL OR PROFESSIONAL OPINION.

You sought out mental health assistance and assessment. You agree to be assessed and as part of the mental health assessment, personality disorders are always assessed and considered. Here is an example. (not a real example..just posing my point)

Tomorrow I have a 17 year old girl come in and their is strong concern over obsessive-compulsive disorder. She shows traits of OCD. Now, as part of my assessment, I MUST ethically and professionally rule out what we call differential diagnoses. For example, we may wonder if instead of OCD, she may have generalized anxiety disorder. Maybe there is undercover trauma and it is PTSD. Part of that differential is that we need to look at the possibility of personality disorders. To not assess for these would be an ethical violation. It means that we did not provide you proper care. Unless you have said differently, you mentioned you asked for assessment. Unless you specifically told them, I am not agreeing to be assessed for personality disorders PRIOR TO assessment, then you probably have no grounds to stand on.

Now consider some more things. Ask yourself why it is so important to obsess on the personality component. Not the physical reasons. Ask yourself deeper why are those reason so relevant to you. People cannot keep you from getting a job because you have a personality disorder, with the exception of jobs such as police, law, etc for obvious reasons. But why...not the physical outward reasons...but why are those outward reasons so important? But let me pop another example.

Let's say tomorrow a man came to me and told me that he wanted to be assessed. I set up an appointment for a test battery. Prior to the test battery, he tells me, "I do NOT want to be tested for personality disorders." Right there I have some serious clinical concerns.

1. Why is he saying this? Is he trying to cover something? Is he trying to play a game with me? Believe it or not, and I am not saying you, but some people go to therapists specifically to try to "test" us or mess with us. So a dozen very suspicious questions come up about why specifically personality disorders?

2. By asking this question, he is tying my hands clinically. He is not allowing me to do my full job.

3. It is impossible NOT to assess for personality disorders while doing the rest.

4. It would be unethical and a violation of my ethical agreement to not offer full services for assessment. Something like a personality disorder can be very helpful to know. If I somehow was able to separate and was told this man ONLY had clinical depression, I am treating for clinical depression. If there was also a hefty case of borderline personality disorder, my entire therapy set needs to change to treat effectively.

I hope any of this helps.

originally posted by: KyoZero
a reply to: Quasiscientist
You sought out mental health assistance and assessment. You agree to be assessed and as part of the mental health assessment, personality disorders are always assessed and considered.

So then is it possible for a patient to receive a mental status examination for assessing for personality disorders in the manner that I've described in the story that I posted in my thread here?:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I've asked other people about this and I've been told that what I'm describing is "impossible" because it would be "unethical" and/or "illegal", and that no psychiatrist or any other mental health care worker would even attempt anything like this because apparently psychiatrists are infallible. I've had people tell me that all of this that I'm describing is purely coincidental and that I'm just being paranoid, and that even if they would have made an assessment this would never be done in such a fashion. Not only because it's ethically questionable but also because for a lot of different reasons such an approach wouldn't yield objectively usable results.

My psychologist and my psychiatrist work in two completely different practices, in two completely different offices, in two completely different buildings, in two completely different cities. I first met my first (and current) psychiatrist in July 1, 2013. I first met my psychologist three years later, in July of 2016 (this year, obviously.)

According to my psychological evaluation report, I've filled out the following (I filled these out back in July of 2016):

Biopsychosocial History Questionnaire
Client Problem Checklist
Beck Depression Inventory – 2 (BDI-2)
Short Depression Scale (SDS)
Beck Anxiety Inventory (BAI)
Endler Multiaxial Anxiety Survey – Social Anxiety Scales (EMAS-SAS)
Shipley Institute of Living Scale
Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory – 2 (MMPI-2)

I've also been looking at my copies of my Medical Records given to me by my psychiatrist, and I see here that I filled out the following (I filled these out back in July of 2013):

The Warwick-Edinburgh Mental Well-being Scale (WEMWBS)
Global Assessment of Functioning
Sheehan Disability Scale
Adult ADHD Self-Report Scale (ASRS-v1.1)
Subjective Happiness Scale (SHS)
Zung Anxiety Self-Assessment Scale
Zung Self-Rating Depression Scale

So I've now officially been assessed for personality disorders by an actual psychologist, and I was diagnosed by him with the following three disorders:

Major Depressive Disorder
Generalized Anxiety Disorder
Social Anxiety Disorder

My psychiatrist told me the following a few months back, “for testing for personality disorders there's the 'MMPI-2' which isn't very scientific.”

I found it a bit funny that my psychiatrist told me that the MMPI-2 “isn't very scientific” and yet he managed to diagnose me with ADHD and perscribed me Adderall back in 2013 after a single 15-minute-long session in which I could swear he was falling asleep while I was talking.

On the first of July of the year 2013, I finally got around to seeking help from the mental health profession when I decided to see my first psychiatrist (let's call him: “Dr. Ch”.) Dr. Ch honestly seemed very tired, inattentive, and possibly falling asleep. He was yawning, nodding off, closing his eyes... at some point he just stopped talking and closed his eyes for about ten seconds while I was describing my symptoms. He would even repeat some of his questions and make me repeat myself several times, almost as if he'd forget my responses to his questions. However, I remained patient throughout the session under the suspicion that my tolerance was intentionally being tested (I suspected that he was possibly assessing me for narcissistic personality disorder.) After attempting to explain my various concerns to Dr. Ch for about fifteen minutes, he prescribed me Adderall for the treatment of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. I found it a bit strange that I was prescribed Adderall so quickly, especially after I had read about the side-effects of Adderall beforehand and how some people with drug-seeking behavior often seek Adderall for recreational use. After all that I remember thinking to myself: “really? You're prescribing Adderall to me just like that?”

originally posted by: Bluesma
I can't imagine the psychologist wants to get involved in this.
Especially if all this you are doing is to try to keep taking a drug that the psychiatrist thinks you should be weened off of. (that you yourself pointed out is often used recreationally).

What's bothering me is why my psychiatrist decided to prescribe me Adderall in the first place being fully aware of its side-effects. That was the whole reason as to why I ended up seeing a neurologist, and a second psychiatrist, and a psychologist, and why I wanted to see a geneticist, etc...

I remember asking my psychiatrist last month, "I remember the first time that I met with you back in the first of July of 2013, I had hundreds of questions running through my mind about ADHD, Adderall, Adderall's side-effects... I don't know if you were just tired, sleepy, or bored... but you didn't really seem up to answering any of my questions on that day. Why did you prescribe me Adderall knowing that it could cause these sort of side-effects?"

And he responded, "we didn't know back then that Adderall would cause these side-effects in you. But we're seeing now that you're experiencing delusions."

My psychiatrist is completely disregarding everything that my psychologist wrote on my psychological evaluation report, in particular the following:

Some of his vegetative symptoms appear to be somewhat mitigated by the prescription of a psycho-stimulant (Adderall), which has been used on a regular basis.

There were no questions raised regarding his reality testing, no hallucinations reported, and no delusions noted either, failing to support a psychosis hypothesis (including all Schizophrenic disorders).

He was advised to continue to attend his regular meetings with his psychiatrist (currently, Dr. Ch) who prescribes Adderall

Which is weird because when I handed over copies of my psychological evaluation report to my psychiatrist earlier this year back in August, he wrote the following on my MedRec:

080916 md150 20 min rc
S: He went to see a psychologist Dr. Va, PhD. ---.---.----. Dr. Va doesn't think that he has a personality disorder, but he has schizotypal personality style. Dr. Va doesn't think that he will develop schizophrenia and that it's OK for him to continue to take Adderall XR which will help with his mental state. He's diagnosed by Dr. Va to have MDD, moderate, recurrent, GAD, and Social Anxiety Disorder.

[...]

A: ADHD
P: Adderall XR 20mg tid, #90 for 2 months with EFD 9/9/16. Recommend meetup.com for him to increase his social circle.

I've been taking Adderall nearly every day for almost two years, and my psychiatrist is suddenly deciding now to stop prescribing me it? Just because I'm experiencing "delusions"? And the guy can just make up his own definition for what a "delusion" is and I can't do anything about it?

a reply to: Quasiscientist

Simple question I have to ask

In 2013 with the psychiatrist, did you specifically say, "do not test me for personality disorders."

originally posted by: KyoZero
a reply to: Quasiscientist

Simple question I have to ask

In 2013 with the psychiatrist, did you specifically say, "do not test me for personality disorders."

Alas, I did not.

A few years ago (before I decided to seek mental health care) I remember reading this article written by Dr. Keith Ablow on the 8th of January of 2013:

www.foxnews.com...

In it, the psychiatrist Dr. Keith Ablow wrote the following:

Watch for an epidemic of depression and suicidality, not to mention homicidality, as the real self-loathing and hatred of others that lies beneath all this narcissism rises to the surface.

...and:

As if to keep up with the unreality of media and technology, in a dizzying paroxysm of self-aggrandizing hype, town sports leagues across the country hand out ribbons and trophies to losing teams, schools inflate grades, energy drinks in giant, colorful cans take over the soft drink market, and psychiatrists hand out Adderall like candy.

So I read that article and I started thinking that maybe I might be a narcissist. That maybe there's something seriously wrong with me. That maybe I have Narcissistic Personality Disorder. That this is why I'm so depressed and anxious all the time. That this is why so many people have described me as being "oversensitive." That this is why I'm a 27-year-old unemployed high school drop-out with no friends.

For a long time I was starting to wonder if I suffered from some sort of disorder, such as: a mental disorder that negatively effected my senses and/or perception of reality (such as: schizophrenia), or a personality disorder that negatively effected the way that I perceived people (such as: Narcissistic Personality Disorder), or a neurodevelopmental disorder that negatively effected my attention span (such as: Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder), or a developmental disorder that negatively effected the way that my mind detected those subtle cues of people's body's language (such as: Autism Spectrum Disorder), or a mood disorder that negatively effected my mood (such as: Bipolar Disorder), or a neurological disorder that negatively effected my energy (such as: narcolepsy). I kept looking for anything that could explain why I continued to fail at just about every facet of life: socially, economically, academically, etc. But I long feared seeking professional help from mental health care workers. I feared being misdiagnosed and/or being prescribed drugs that could only make me worse than I already am. Nearly two years later, I finally gave in and decided to see my first mental health care worker (my first psychiatrist.)

The following is a sentence from page 671 from the DSM-5 regarding Narcissistic Personality Disorder:

Sustained feelings of shame or humiliation and the attendant self-criticism may be associated with social withdrawal, depressed mood, and persistent depressive disorder (dysthymia) or major depressive disorder.

So I've wondered if my "Major Depressive Disorder" was actually caused by this "Narcissistic Personality Disorder", and if it's possible for me to have been both assessed for and diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder by my psychiatrist without my informed consent, and without this personality disorder showing up on my MedRec.

At first, after reading that article that I linked to above, I remember thinking to myself: "what does Adderall have to do with narcissism?"

Then I started thinking about it, and I wondered if I was subconsciously drug-seeking Adderall so that I could better control myself. I felt that I needed more control in my life. And then I wondered if maybe I was just using this "Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder" as an excuse for being the way that I am, for all the mistakes that I've made in my life, and for any mistakes that I might make in the future.

As I said in an earlier post:

On the first of July of the year 2013, I finally got around to seeking help from the mental health profession when I decided to see my first psychiatrist (let's call him: “Dr. Ch”.) Dr. Ch honestly seemed very tired, inattentive, and possibly falling asleep. He was yawning, nodding off, closing his eyes... at some point he just stopped talking and closed his eyes for about ten seconds while I was describing my symptoms. He would even repeat some of his questions and make me repeat myself several times, almost as if he'd forget my responses to his questions. However, I remained patient throughout the session under the suspicion that my tolerance was intentionally being tested (I suspected that he was possibly assessing me for narcissistic personality disorder.) After attempting to explain my various concerns to Dr. Ch for about fifteen minutes, he prescribed me Adderall for the treatment of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. I found it a bit strange that I was prescribed Adderall so quickly, especially after I had read about the side-effects of Adderall beforehand and how some people with drug-seeking behavior often seek Adderall for recreational use. After all that I remember thinking to myself: “really? You're prescribing Adderall to me just like that?”

So when I finally got around to seeing my first psychiatrist for the first time back in the first of July of 2013, I wondered if he detected this about me and if he was possibly assessing me for Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and that he was prescribing Adderall to me as some sort of test.

The neurologist that I went to see back in 2013 (let's call him: "Dr. Na") then referred me to a close school friend of his (another psychiatrist, let's call him: “Dr. An”) who prescribed me both escitalopram and clonazepam for the treatment of anxiety and depression between the eight months of November 2013 and June 2014.

Additionally, I remember Dr. An asking me, "why didn't you take Adderall?"

And I told him, "I was concerned that Adderall might trigger psychotic episodes or possibly hasten the onset of schizophrenia in people genetically predisposed to developing schizophrenia at some point in their lives. I wasn't sure if I was at the onset of schizophrenia..."

Dr. An shook his head and said, "no. That simply never happens."

Dr. An later told me to not take Adderall as it could worsen my essential tremors.

During the first week I felt that my mood may had been improving, but it quickly deteriorated. I had gone to see this second psychiatrist a second time and he recommended that I go see a different psychiatrist at Kaiser Permanente as I had recently gotten it as my insurance and Kaiser Permanente apparently had good psychiatrists. I also remember Dr. An losing his patience with me when I kept asking him questions about Adderall, and he kept interrupting me and angrily telling me to not take Adderall.

Shortly thereafter, my family told me that Kaiser Permanente was too expensive of an insurance and that I should leave it as they wouldn't be able to pay for it anymore.

I later attempted to contact Dr. Na (for questions regarding my medications), but he would neither answer my phone calls nor e-mails as he had apparently retired and closed his office.

Nearly eighteen months later (on December 28, 2014), I had gone back to see Dr. Ch to be prescribed Adderall again, as I didn't bother taking it before.

Well then certainly your case is unfortunately flimsy at best.

But let me dash on some hope here...and I mean this genuinely. Even if you do have NPD, it is not the end of the road for you. NPD can be difficult to work with as a professional, but if you have a desire to heal and cope, it is not impossible. You need to have patience, genuine desire, and need to pull back a bit and aim for some objectivity. I would have a hard time believing that a whole team of doctors would be messing with you or testing you.

Having awareness is excellent and I tell my clients this all the time, but too much awareness leads to obsession which can be as dangerous as just ignoring the problem.

a reply to: Hefficide

Heff, thats very good advice, however...

As for a psychologist telling you that there's no such thing as a chemical imbalance? All I can say is find a new psychologist because that is empirically incorrect. Take mental illness of the table and we're still left with things like diabetes or thyroid problems which are chemical imbalances.

I think what perhaps the psychologist is saying is that psychiatrists will usually say there is a "chemical imbalance in the brain". This quest for the imbalance however has been elusive since ADHD first came to be considered a "mental condition".

Psychiatrist then begin the chemical merry-go-round, most of the drugs they prescribe have very serious side effects including depression and suicidal tendencies.

To the OP, I would suggest you see psychologists and also look at your diet and exercise, healthy eating clean air...stay around nature..get a pet.

You cannot "stop being depressed" as your mother suggests. I really wish you the best of luck.


You may want to check this out...
7 Foods That May Contribute to Your Depression
psychcentral.com...

15 FOODS THAT MAKE YOUR DEPRESSION OR ANXIETY WORSE
www.eatthis.com...

Oh, dear. Looks like I am officially #ed now. I sent the following e-mail to my psychologist a few hours ago:

Dr. Vai, I really do not understand you. I have offered to pay you for your services, and yet you continue to deny me. You say that what I'm asking for is "therapy", when really all I'm asking for is that you back me up and back up what you wrote on my psychological evaluation report when speaking with my psychiatrist Dr. Cha. If you're really telling me that what I'm asking for is "therapy", then that will suggest to me that the reason you're telling me that is because everything that you've told me thus far, that everything that you wrote on my psychological evaluation report is a lie, that you believe that everything that I told you about myself and my family has been either an exaggeration and/or fabrication, that you have really diagnosed me with Narcissistic Personality Disorder without telling me, and that you have been in communication with Dr. Cha.

You tell me things like, “the psychiatrists of today are like the alchemists of the Middle Ages. The alchemists believed that they could create gold from lead, which we now know is impossible. Psychiatrists believe in 'chemical imbalances'. There is no such thing as 'chemical imbalances'.” And you also told me, “all psychiatrists are strange” and that you don't like having to deal with them. And yet, you continue to defend Dr. Cha's behavior by telling me that what I'm suggesting is “impossible”, because it would be “unethical” and/or “illegal”, and so this must mean that psychiatrists are inherently infallible and therefore incapable of even thinking of doing anything like what I'm suggesting.

I developed very strong feelings for the nurse practitioner Dr. Ude, and I think it is the closest that I have ever felt to feeling “love” for another person. I don't know if what happened between her and I is what some might call “transference of love”, or “erotomania”, or a symptom of Narcissistic Personality Disorder... but what I'm feeling for her right now feels very real and I had genuinely assumed that she had the same feelings for me. I met with Dr. Ude nearly every month for over a year (nine sessions in total), and with each passing month I could gradually feel my feelings for her intensifying, but I was afraid of doing or saying anything about them out of fear that I was being assessed for Narcissistic Personality Disorder and that she was testing me to see how I might deal with rejection.

Between the months of May and June of 2016, I decided to finally give in to my feelings and to call her on her cell phone. And as you know, I was instead greeted with a phone call from Dr. Cha who told me that calling Dr. Ude on her cell phone was very inappropriate, that she felt very uncomfortable, and that, “this is a very sensitive situation and if you keep calling her she may put a restraining order on you.” And so now Dr. Cha is telling me that I'm experiencing “delusions”, that I imagined this entire thing with Dr. Ude, that nothing about her behavior was unusual or inappropriate, and he put down on my MedRec that I had “Delusional Disorder, erotomanic type f22”. Dr. Cha is completely disregarding what you wrote on my psychological evaluation report, in particular the following: “Some of his vegetative symptoms appear to be somewhat mitigated by the prescription of a psycho-stimulant (Adderall), which has been used on a regular basis.” “There were no questions raised regarding his reality testing, no hallucinations reported, and no delusions noted either, failing to support a psychosis hypothesis (including all Schizophrenic disorders).” “He was advised to continue to attend his regular meetings with his psychiatrist (currently, Dr. Cha) who prescribes Adderall”. He is going to stop prescribing Adderall to me. I am not OK with this.

Surely you should be able to see why I find my situation to be incredibly baffling, confusing, frustrating, bizarre... and why I feel absolutely devastated. I don't understand why Dr. Cha defends her. Ultimately, the only two options that I'm left with to explain what's happening at this point would be:

1. Dr. Cha and the other providers of his practice are intentionally messing with my head.

2. My perception of reality is so disturbed, I can no longer trust in my own senses. I seem to be experiencing some combination of confabulations, hallucinations, and/or delusions. I can no longer trust anything that I experience. And yet you tell me that I am neither experiencing delusions, nor hallucinations, nor schizophrenia, nor any schizophrenic-like disorders. And Dr. Cha is telling me that I'm experiencing only delusions, not hallucinations or confabulations. I'm not sure why one doctor's opinion should have any greater authority than another's.

And the sort of “delusions” that Dr. Cha is telling me that I am supposedly experiencing sound more like they would be “confabulations”, so it's like he is redefining what a “delusion” actually is. I don't know what to think anymore. Nothing makes sense.

I know that you told me to forget about Dr. Ude, but I can't. I can't stop thinking about her. I think about her every day. I don't know if what some might call “magical thinking”, but it almost feels like she is my “soulmate”. It has been six months since I last saw Dr. Ude, and I desperately want to see her again.

I even remember you telling me, “see, you have all of these questions but no one has ever taken the time to answer them. So you've been left alone with your own paranoid ideas. But I'm here now to listen to you.” After I was done with those tests back in July of 2016, I still had hundreds of questions running through my mind but you kept interrupting me. I was trying to tell you about Dr. Cha's strange behavior and was hoping for answers from you.

[...]

There's more... I will try posting the rest in a bit.