AI replacing human workers soon...

Is a universal basic income the best solution or should we actually boycot or ban AI technology?

hardware.slashdot.org... c-income

a reply to: CrapAsUsual

I say we give them our Social Security Numbers and get paid for their work

Wouldn't that be a clever scheme

a reply to: CrapAsUsual

#AI_Lives_Matter

a reply to: DBCowboy

I Robot , I Matter .

We should be taken care of by AI , NOT working in order to grow.
We have to go conquer space now.

a reply to: CrapAsUsual

I have no idea on how this is going to work out. I have a sneaking suspicion that it isn't going to be smooth or painless. The wages that people actually work for have been stagnant for 35 years, and the people EARN them. Where does the money go?



I have a hard time believing in any basic income unless there is a huge change in ownership like businesses being a community owned thing. Can't say as I blame the businesses and corps, they own the assets, machines, land and means of production, why should they share? Of course they will need to sell stuff to someone, who will have any $?

It is going to get bumpy.

a reply to: FamCore

So we should all learn to code and how to maintain a AI machine and then it's up to us to write a resume to get the machine a job and then we get paid off of the revenue the machine makes?

Doesn't sound like such a bad idea.

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: CrapAsUsual

I say we give them our Social Security Numbers and get paid for their work

Wouldn't that be a clever scheme

There was a paper presented at the last BIEN congress that suggested this. I was doubtful but the man put in a decent argument around the fact that AI is 1/3 built from big data gathered off the internet. The internet was freely gifted to the people of earth by the creator of the internet. So we own 1/3 of AI's and anything it produces including the robots it designs that make us unemployed.

He said it better - it is published but yet to be put on-line. They are working on getting into there website

A universal basic income is very doable, just look at all the millions of people on welfare.

We can't ban AI tech. Like the article says, if an owner or employee can get the job done cheaper, they will

If capital trumps labor, the people who own will keep getting wealthier and the people who supply labor will become less necessary. And this is exactly what AI and robotics and software are now doing: substituting capital for labor.

originally posted by: BlueShaman
A universal basic income is very doable, just look at all the millions of people on welfare.

And unemployment insurance, disability insurance, and food stamps

a reply to: BlueShaman
Surely it wouldn't be for everyone, like welfare for all? There would still be jobs left humans have to do. It can't be made to be where people would n't bother to do those jobs

I'll pass on an AI dentist, laser eye surgeon working on me or providing a Pap smear or any other personal task

a reply to: BlueShaman

There would be a big difference where the money comes from. I find it hard to believe that the any business is willingly going to contribute to the basic income. I could see corporate loop holes and complicate schemes to avoid this extra cost.

If the numbers of jobs eliminated are as big as some are reporting, the number of people that would receive it would get big in a hurry. Do you think this process would be smooth?

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: CrapAsUsual

I have no idea on how this is going to work out. I have a sneaking suspicion that it isn't going to be smooth or painless. The wages that people actually work for have been stagnant for 35 years, and the people EARN them. Where does the money go?

I have a hard time believing in any basic income unless there is a huge change in ownership like businesses being a community owned thing. Can't say as I blame the businesses and corps, they own the assets, machines, land and means of production, why should they share? Of course they will need to sell stuff to someone, who will have any $?

It is going to get bumpy.

And do you truly believe that the origins of wealth and assets is 100% honestly obtained. No stealing, no my gun is bigger than yours scenario 200 years ago, no exploitation of workers, no slavery leading to the vast wealth of southern landowners, no tax evasion! etc etc. So I'm afraid I have little sympathy for inherited wealth. 20% of the land in the UK is still owned by the original families given land by William the Conqueror in 1066!!! FFS

Current day business depend on selling goods and services in order to make profit and thus increase the wealth of the owners. They can only do this because working people earn wages to buy those goods and services. If companies replace workers with AI machines then who the f... will buy the goods and services produces by the machines?

The coming storm will result in the collapse of the economy, mass poverty, mass hunger, war etc unless the current system dramatically changes in the next 2 decades. This means that the goods and services produced by machines are consumed by humans who do not (and cannot) pay for them in the traditional manner. AI industries CAN ONLY produce goods and services for ALL humans and not the benefit of a few. It is the only sustainable model.

This is a very complex issue we will be facing in the next 5, 10, 15 years. In less than 20 years almost nothing will be produced by humans.

I´ve thought about this several times and mentally explored the usual solutions, the Social security number option, the ban option, the Basic income option.

In my humble opinion this issue is far beyond anything mankind has ever faced.

-This is mankind replacing itself for the profit of someone who depends on those who is replacing.

In other words, if replacing workers will create jobless moneyless consumers, incapable of buying the products the factory produces, why replacing the workers in first place? -Its the first time that the choice of capitalists may not be to optimize and squeeze to make more profit, its perhaps the end of capitalism as we know it.

This is an impossible equation and the proof that Marx could be right even without knowing AI would ever exist.

Socialism will actually replace capitalism and this change will be operated by capitalists themselves for their own sake, for their own survival.

What is a UBI other than a redistribution of profit, much like it was done in the USSR? -A worker had a salary but also had a house and paid vacations and health care and food and free electricity and free gas and free water... A UBI is not quite that but its getting closer...

a reply to: yorkshirelad

And do you truly believe that the origins of wealth and assets is 100% honestly obtained. No stealing, no my gun is bigger than yours scenario 200 years ago, no exploitation of workers, no slavery leading to the vast wealth of southern landowners, no tax evasion! etc etc.

There are lots of examples of horrible business practices 200 years ago, during WW l, WW ll, and last week. I approach every problem looking at it from all sides, and this one is a real big problem.

I think this will be the defining issue in the next decade and I see no evidence that any large corporation is even considering this. Do you?

a reply to: seasonal

They are testing basic income with 2000 unemployed people in Finland, testing period is from 2017 to 2019. All unemployed people who will get basic income for two years are randomly picked and testing is enforced. They will receive 560 Euros a month and no taxes are taken away from it.
What they say it is to avoid poverty, minimize bureaucracy, encourage to find a work.. they did not mention that AI will come and take all the jobs .. grins

a reply to: dollukka

Antonio Guterres, the next UN General Secretary done that in 1995 for the exact same reasons, the amount was around 250 euros, about 70% of the minimum wage at the time. Crime was reduced but not many of those people found a job.

This UBI is a different thing, has nothing to do with poverty but its a way to keep the market economy we live in, working. Its a capitalist idea to save capitalism that in my opinion will convert capitalism into a form of socialism.

originally posted by: violet
a reply to: BlueShaman
Surely it wouldn't be for everyone, like welfare for all? There would still be jobs left humans have to do. It can't be made to be where people would n't bother to do those jobs

I'll pass on an AI dentist, laser eye surgeon working on me or providing a Pap smear or any other personal task

It wouldn't be compulsory, it would be for those who opted not to work. I think anyone would still be free to pursue a profession of their choosing, especially if they wanted to earn more than the universal basic income.

We'll have a Star Trek nation soon. Hey, where all the green girls at?