Mobilise against Iran: Israel

From correspondents in Jerusalem
January 24, 2005

ISRAELI Deputy Prime Minister Shimon Peres has called for international mobilisation against Iran's nuclear ambitions, which he say threaten the stability of the Middle East.
"The world must mobilise against the Iranian nuclear option," Mr Peres said in an interview with army radio.

"Iran has become the focal point of all the dangers of the Middle East ... This problem should be of concern to the whole world and not just Israel."

US President George W. Bush said last Monday he could not rule out using force if Tehran failed to rein in its nuclear plans, which he said was a cover for the production of a nuclear bomb.

And then US Vice-President Dick Cheney said Iran was "right at the top of the list" of global trouble spots, and warned that Israel might launch a pre-emptive strike on its own to shut down Iran's nuclear program.

Link

This could turn very ugly if there is a pre-emptive strike. While the coalition are trying to create a democracy in Iraq this could mean other countries are at war with Iran...Iraq's next door neighbour.

Sanc'.
edit:title

[edit on 24-1-2005 by sanctum]

Why is it only Isreal and the US have the abillity to see the danger a nuclear Iran represents? While Europe is trying to buy Iran off with "peaceful" nuclear technology we are gathering our forces and preparing to stop the unthinkable.

Fasten your seatbelts and prepare for a wild ride. Iran will never comply to any agreement brokered by the EU, that whole thing is an exercise in futility. Either Israel takes care of them or the U.S. will have to. I think the U.S. would want to keep Israel out of military action against Iran at all costs for fear of inflaming the Muslims even more into thinking the U.S. and Israel are in cahoots to take over all Muslim lands...not a pretty picture any way you look at it.

Originally posted by mwm1331
Why is it only Isreal and the US have the abillity to see the danger a nuclear Iran represents? While Europe is trying to buy Iran off with "peaceful" nuclear technology we are gathering our forces and preparing to stop the unthinkable.

i think the REAL danger to our world is represented by two countires, yes you guessed right:
-israel
-USA
both armed to the teeth, both nuclear capable, both in war with the muslim world. now that is a real threat to global security. not iran. not iraq. isreal with their "agressive" foreign policy towards their neighborhooding countries, and USA for supporting them in that!

but ask yourself this:
who has the most nuclear weapons in their arsenal?

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Fasten your seatbelts and prepare for a wild ride. Iran will never comply to any agreement brokered by the EU, that whole thing is an exercise in futility. Either Israel takes care of them or the U.S. will have to. [/quoe]
The US will not permit israel to strike iran.

not a pretty picture any way you look at it.

I'm not so much concerned over an Iran-US war as much as the regional consequences of it. I doubt that the arab states will sit by as with iraq.

Any strike by us is suicide. We are way too involved in the middle east as it is and if we continue those countries will think we are trying to take over the region. I really think everyone just needs to cool their heels for a while and let Iraq settle for a bit.

Originally posted by Souljah
i think the REAL danger to our world is represented by two countires, yes you guessed right:
-israel
-USA
both armed to the teeth, both nuclear capable, both in war with the muslim world. now that is a real threat to global security.

....isn't Russia and India in the same position, why leave them out?

isreal with their "agressive" foreign policy towards their neighborhooding countries

Maybe you don't know the history of that area, the their neighbors have tried and have been trying for years to wipe them from the face of the earth. How would you act against someone trying to kill you?

but ask yourself this:
who has the most nuclear weapons in their arsenal?

The Russians have pretty much always had more nukes than the US and any other country.

That's quite simple. If someone wants to kill you, obviously he has a good reason to want to do so, and therefore you must let him kill you because you deserve to die.

If someone issues a declaration calling for your annihilation, it's your fault and you have no right to take preventative action.

Who loves backwards logic?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
....isn't Russia and India in the same position, why leave them out?

ok, lets check the numbers!

United States 10,240
Russia 8,400
China 390
France 350
United Kingdom 200-300
India 60-90
Pakistan 55-250

hmm, i dont see israel on this list i found, but i am pretty sure they have some old information. i know israel has nuclear weapons, but dont know how many.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Maybe you don't know the history of that area, the their neighbors have tried and have been trying for years to wipe them from the face of the earth. How would you act against someone trying to kill you?

dont worry, i know history.
and why are "they" trying to "wipe the jewish people out"?
because they have occupied their homeland! they have taken it. but it is not just jewish land. all three religions have roots here, and jerusalem is a holy city for all three of them.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
The Russians have pretty much always had more nukes than the US and any other country.

see the chart above, who leads in the nuke competition.
and i think that russia has most of their nuclear weapons offline or de-activated, since they can not afford the maintenance. so that basicly leaves the u.s. to be top predator in this mindless nuclear wargame.

there is only one thing you need to know about "a nuclear war":
in a world of today, where the homeland security is balanced by the number of nuclear warheads (see the numbers above and do the math), only ONE nuclear bomb can not fall. there will follow others. and that is the end of mankind as we know it.
so please, go ahead
NUKE'EM!



if there comes to a third world war, i dont know what weapons they are going to fight with,
but i know, that world war 4 will be fought by sticks and stones...
Albert Einsten

from wikipedia :

The exact number of nuclear weapons possessed by the United States is difficult to determine. Different treaties and organizations have different criteria for reporting nuclear weapons, especially those held in reserve, and those being dismantled or rebuilt:

As of 1999, the U.S. was said to have 12,000 nuclear weapons of all types stockpiled. [9] (www.fas.org...)
In its Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START) declaration for 2003, the U.S. listed 5968 deployed warheads as defined by START rules.[10] (www.state.gov...)
For 2004, the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists listed the U.S. with about 7,000 operational and 3,000 reserve warheads. [11] (www.thebulletin.org...)

Russia is said to have around 19,000 nuclear power weapons stockpiled in 2002 with perhaps only 8,500 of them operational. [1] (www.thebulletin.org...) Russia is one of the five "Nuclear Weapons States" (NWS) under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, which Russia ratified (as the Soviet Union) in 1968.

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
....isn't Russia and India in the same position, why leave them out?

ok, lets check the numbers!

United States 10,240
Russia 8,400
China 390
France 350
United Kingdom 200-300
India 60-90
Pakistan 55-250

hmm, i dont see israel on this list i found, but i am pretty sure they have some old information. i know israel has nuclear weapons, but dont know how many.

All that is irrelevant to what I asked. I asked why are the US and Isreal the only threats to world security when Russia and India are in the same position?

dont worry, i know history.
and why are "they" trying to "wipe the jewish people out"?
because they have occupied their homeland! they have taken it. but it is not just jewish land. all three religions have roots here, and jerusalem is a holy city for all three of them.

Again, irrelevant (and wrong). I asked how would you act if the neighbors around you were trying to kill you?

see the chart above, who leads in the nuke competition.
and i think that russia has most of their nuclear weapons offline or de-activated, since they can not afford the maintenance. so that basicly leaves the u.s. to be top predator in this mindless nuclear wargame.

I'm not sure I get what you're trying to point out. What "mindless nuclear wagame"?
You may not be aware of this but we've had nukes for decades and everyone knows we have nukes. We're not trying to acquire nukes as we already have them.

Or maybe I'm missing something?

there is only one thing you need to know about "a nuclear war":
in a world of today, where the homeland security is balanced by the number of nuclear warheads (see the numbers above and do the math), only ONE nuclear bomb can not fall. there will follow others. and that is the end of mankind as we know it.
so please, go ahead
NUKE'EM!

Ok...umm....
...just smile and nod, smile and nod...

Iran promises 'astonishing' response to attack

"We will counter any stupid action by Israel and its master with firmness and in an astonishing way," Brigadier-General Mohammad-Ali Jafari told the Shargh newspaper.

The commander of the Revolutionary Guards' ground forces says Iran now has the capacity to defeat any invader within months.

"We pushed the Baathist enemy from our country within one-and-a-half years," he said, referring to the opening campaigns of the 1980-88 war with Iraq.

"With the experience and skills from that war and in the case of any invasion, the invaders will be defeated in less than one and a half months."

Link

Sanc'.

Bad time to be aged 18-26 in the US.

I don't really have an opinion for or against anymore. It's pretty much written and what happens, happens. *shrug*

All I know is that if it was clear I was going to be killed by somebody, I would do everything in my power kill or maim them before it happened. That is the least you can expect.

Iran will be nothing like Iraq.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
All that is irrelevant to what I asked. I asked why are the US and Isreal the only threats to world security when Russia and India are in the same position?

not the only threats, but the biggest ones.
israel is at war with muslim countries for fifty years.
now that is not a very peacefull way.
and current u.s. president does not inspire world with peace either. i dont think he really knows what he is doing, and if somebody would press "the red button", that would probably be him. but then again, he doesnt care, since there are anti-nuclear bunkers built for that case, where you can survive for years without leaving. do you have a nuclear bunker in your backyard maybe?
to me ALL the countries that possess nuclear weapons are a threat, since they are holding their own destruction. i find nuclear weapons very stupid and dumb, and will sooner or later put an end to mankind.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Again, irrelevant (and wrong). I asked how would you act if the neighbors around you were trying to kill you?

first of all, i wouldnt MOVE into this hostile and violent neighbourhood in the first place! it was a very stupid idea to begin with. what did people think, that the palestine people will just wait and observe how their homes are being destroyed and their people killed?
well, gues again!
isreal is a military country, owned by military and is controlled by military. their young people, man and woman, when they are 18 years old MUST join the army, and serve two years of active duty! that for me is a military state.
and please do not say that "they are defending" themselfes, since they once occupied entire sinai peninsula, were holding the suez channal, occupied the golan heights in syria, actually they are spreading their territory as we speak! buidling a GREAT WALL and expanding from minute to minute.
now that is not very peaceful either!
imagine what that does to all the neighbouring countries?
yes, you guess right, it pissed them off.
severly!

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
You may not be aware of this but we've had nukes for decades and everyone knows we have nukes. We're not trying to acquire nukes as we already have them.
Or maybe I'm missing something?

yes i am aware of the nuclear weapons race,
and that race is really sickening to me,
since we are only accumulating means of our own destruction.
russia developed in the wild 60s the biggest nuclear bomb, called tzar bomba, with 50MT of destructive power (hiroshima was 15kiloTon explosion). now tell me, how is that going to help "global security"?
nukes make me nervous, and they dont make me feel SAFE!

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
NUKE'EM!

Ok...umm....
...just smile and nod, smile and nod...

i was aiming at the "tolerant" american people, on this forum, that like to use this word phrase "nuke'em" very often, not knowing what consequences that kind of action brings upon this planet.
that, for me is,
totally ignorant!

Whats the big deal about Iran having nukes? Iran wont just press a button and nuke israel, as this would just bring about their own destruction aswell. The only reason why Iran wants nukes is to balance the power in the middle east, as israel is the only country in the region to have nukes. So Iran is looking at things like this.....israel has a loaded gun pointed at their head, so they think why dont we get our own gun and point it at theres so they wont shoot us.
All this is about is keeping the jewish people in power in the middle east, you trust israel with nukes but not iran? This just shows the racism in american society today thinking that any arab country are terroists, and if any arab country gets their hands on a nuke they will use it. This is a croc, iran is a modern country, they understand the power of nuclear weapons and are not going to use it unless they are attacked first.

What's all this ranting and screamng about from the Israel ?

They have been living under threat for decades. Expecting the world to jump ? They got to come to the world stage and play ball themselves. Stop ranting and crying. Get out and try some diplomacy instead.

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
All that is irrelevant to what I asked. I asked why are the US and Isreal the only threats to world security when Russia and India are in the same position?

not the only threats, but the biggest ones.
israel is at war with muslim countries for fifty years.
now that is not a very peacefull way.
and current u.s. president does not inspire world with peace either. i dont think he really knows what he is doing, and if somebody would press "the red button", that would probably be him. but then again, he doesnt care, since there are anti-nuclear bunkers built for that case, where you can survive for years without leaving. do you have a nuclear bunker in your backyard maybe?
to me ALL the countries that possess nuclear weapons are a threat, since they are holding their own destruction. i find nuclear weapons very stupid and dumb, and will sooner or later put an end to mankind.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Again, irrelevant (and wrong). I asked how would you act if the neighbors around you were trying to kill you?

first of all, i wouldnt MOVE into this hostile and violent neighbourhood in the first place! it was a very stupid idea to begin with. what did people think, that the palestine people will just wait and observe how their homes are being destroyed and their people killed?
well, gues again!
isreal is a military country, owned by military and is controlled by military. their young people, man and woman, when they are 18 years old MUST join the army, and serve two years of active duty! that for me is a military state.
and please do not say that "they are defending" themselfes, since they once occupied entire sinai peninsula, were holding the suez channal, occupied the golan heights in syria, actually they are spreading their territory as we speak! buidling a GREAT WALL and expanding from minute to minute.
now that is not very peaceful either!
imagine what that does to all the neighbouring countries?
yes, you guess right, it pissed them off.
severly!

once the wall is up and finished expect ww3 and the rising of the nwo.

Originally posted by wang
Whats the big deal about Iran having nukes? Iran wont just press a button and nuke israel, as this would just bring about their own destruction as well.

This arguement is based on the premise that the Iranian leadership that control their nuclear arsenal will act in a rational, predictable manner. History has shown us that the Iranian leadership, by their own words and deeds, intend to destroy the state of Israel. They are not rational, nor are they predictable, therefore they are a threat. For the 50 years that the US and USSR faced off in the cold war, we at least knew that the Russian leadership, despite obvious differences in politics, were rational and predictable people.

The only reason why Iran wants nukes is to balance the power in the middle east, as israel is the only country in the region to have nukes. So Iran is looking at things like this.....israel has a loaded gun pointed at their head, so they think why dont we get our own gun and point it at theres so they wont shoot us.

A better analogy would be that the many Arab states are surrounding Israel, backing them into a corner, and that Israel is wielding a loaded gun to keep them at bay. And by the way, Iran is really part of southwest asia, not the middle east. Look at the map: Israel and Iran are no where close to being neighbors. Israel has no possible strategic interest in Iranian territory, and it would have to travel through 2-3 other counteries just to get there. Yet despite this, Iran regularly describes Israel as a threat to their sovereignty. If they are so concerned with nuclear armed neighbors, why don't they ever complain about or threaten Pakistan or India? Or Russia for that matter. Of course you know the answer - because it jives with the Iranian political and religious ideology to hate and feel threatened by the Israelis, or more properly, the Jews.

All this is about is keeping the jewish people in power in the middle east, you trust israel with nukes but not iran? This just shows the racism in american society today thinking that any arab country are terroists, and if any arab country gets their hands on a nuke they will use it.

The jewish people, eh? Not the Israeli people? But Americans are the racisits? I see......

Iv'e got news for you, mate. Iran is not an Arab country. They are Persians, and have a distinctly separate cultural and racial heritage that is separate from the Arabs. What they do share with the Arabs is fundamental Islamic beliefs that clash with western Judeo-Christian ideals and cultures.

Iran has given the world as a whole plenty of reasons to believe that they are not capable of acting with control, rationality, and logic. I have have no problem with a nuclear-armed Iran. Just not a nuclear-armed Iran controlled by fundamental Shiite religious fanatics who oppress their own people and call for the destruction of their neighbors.

Originally posted by Souljah
i think the REAL danger to our world is represented by two countries, yes you guessed right:
-Israel
-USA
both armed to the teeth, both nuclear capable, both in war with the Muslim world.

I'll give you the USA point, but Israel? How is Israel at war with the Muslim world? Please show me the land grabs that they have made, or their assaults on other countries. You can't count their initial declaration of statehood in 1948, since that had U.N. approval. I suppose you could point to the 1967 war, but If I remember correctly they were attacked by several Muslim nations at the same time and most of the land that they gained they returned. (Sinai Peninsula)

Aside from the preemptive strike on the Iraqi nuclear facility in the early 80's, I can't see anything that shows they are a threat to their neighboring Muslims. But wait! What's the cry of the Muslim world. "Israel might have nuclear weapons, we must deal with them." Isn't this exactly what the U.S. policy is with Iran? So it's fine for the Muslim world to have this policy, but don't expect them to abide by these rules. They are willing to attack countries that they believe "may" be a threat, but cry when the fingers are pointed at them.

but ask yourself this:
who has the most nuclear weapons in their arsenal?

No, ask yourself this:
Who has them yet isn't USING them?

You see, that's the issue. It's one thing for a nation to HAVE nuclear weapons, but quite another when a nation who's said officially they'd like to see you dead and has a history of warring with neighbors then gets nukes! It's the fact that they'd USE them that is the problem here.

Either Israel takes care of them or the U.S. will have to.

Pretty much seems to be the reality...

Fasten your seatbelts and prepare for a wild ride.

Yep, and unfortunately, the name of the ride is "WWIII"