Six Reasons For Trump's Rise That Nobody Talks About

a reply to: Byrd

While I agree.. mostly...

I do believe that I am the only one who I can change.

While I may put myself in another shoe... while I may be kind , cool, calm, and collective, I only have control over myself.

They say change begins with YOU and I wholeheartedly believe that.

This world has got some sinister people running the show. I mean... SINISTER! They have total power over you and I.

There is no stopping them.

Whoever "they" chose to be in the white house is who will be "elected". Bank on that... literally. lol

a reply to: Byrd


What a thoughtful and perceptive article. I appreciate and applaud the clearly honest attempt to understand/explain the "other side" . . . sans demonizing or caricaturizing.

Bravo Byrd for posting it. For what it's worth, you have my respect.

a reply to: Byrd

It's devastatingly simple : the Trump support is a "Mr Angry I hate the establishment" vote. This is why he can eat babies for breakfast and his support remains. Anger and the need to kick the establishment is driving it all not reason.

Needless to say this just about the worst reason there is for voting for somebody (or policy). Because you get what you vote for.

originally posted by: lostbook

originally posted by: LifeMode
a reply to: lostbook

What's crystal clear to me is that Hillary has been in politics longer than Trump has been, her list of corruption(s) is longer, a lot longer.

That's a given; politics is a dirty game. What I'm saying is that if Trump had been in politics for as long a period of time, his list corrupt achievements would be far greater and worse.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we would all have a merry Christmas. If he had, he would have... wow and showered with stars. Shame on you ATS.

Wow. retarded.

originally posted by: lostbook

originally posted by: LifeMode
a reply to: lostbook

What's crystal clear to me is that Hillary has been in politics longer than Trump has been, her list of corruption(s) is longer, a lot longer.

That's a given; politics is a dirty game. What I'm saying is that if Trump had been in politics for as long a period of time, his list corrupt achievements would be far greater and worse.

And another thing, I would think any BILLIONAIRE would have just as many skeletons as any politician . But all you can come up with is hes a hetero male who likes to grab Pussies.

Big revelation there.

Listening to people's plights - regardless of where they come from - and trying our best to understand them, and moreover care about them, is the only way out of this mess. (Regardless of which side you're on.) No matter how much people disagree with one another, we need to - somehow, some way - at least all come to terms with the fact that none of us are going anywhere. We all have to live together. We all rely on one another to some extent or another, whether people want to concede that or not, unless you're 100% self sufficient... which very few people are.

I grew up all my life in a city, with an extremely liberal upbringing from one parent, but a slightly more conservative one from the other - they having been from rural Texas. I, like the author, have family and loved ones on "both sides of the fence," and it's definitely a socioeconomic and population density fence more than anything else. Maybe that's why I don't see the divide as being as intrinsic or as much of a reason for polarity as many do. Maybe that's why I see everyone, no matter how much I may disagree with them, as both fellow countrymen/women and fellow human beings whose plights I care about and who I refuse to regard as my adversaries. Maybe that's why I have views that both liberals and conservatives could probably identify with... and many that both often would take strong issue with depending on the topic.

We've got to read articles like this one, and take from them not more ammunition for debates and fights, but reasons for introspection and cause to pause and ask ourselves, "How can I perhaps mend fences a bit in my own minute way in my tiny microcosm of society, wherever that may be?" We have to live together. We have to respect each other. Easy to say. Should not be as hard as it seems to do. We have to stop shouting and start listening to people and their problems, and not simply say, "Yes, but THIS is a BIGGER problem so I don't have to listen to you."

IMHO.

Peace.

It's really a shame this thread has gone off topic and gotten as little traction as it has. It probably could have been one of the more productive threads on ATS.

I really wonder sometimes how much the divide between us is manufactured out of thin air.

For example:

I'd probably most often be labeled as on the "conservative" side of issues. But I think it would be wonderful if there was free education, free health care and I don't believe that anyone in this country should go to bed hungry. What I haven't seen though, is a convincing plan for how to fairly pay for those things. Show me that plan, address a few other concerns and you could firmly put me in the free college and health care camp. (I'm already in the no one goes to bed hungry camp)

There are other examples, but I think for now the above serves to make my point. Just how much of an actual divide is that between a conservative like myself and someone on the left on those issues?

Maybe in the end there are divides we can't bridge, but isn't it encumbent on anyone who identifies as intelligent, fair and thoughtful to at least explore the divides between us in good faith and bridge those that are bridgeable? I think that's what the author of article has done and why I applaud him for writing the article and Byrd for posting it.

If the preponderance of your time on ATS is spent demonizing/vilifying your opposites, left or right, you're cheating yourself out of the biggest benefit the site has to offer and acting like sloppy buffoon. ATS is an a opportunity to test your convictions, thinking and such against some really bright people who hold different convictions, think differently and the like. It's a chance to develop some intellectual/ethical/moral integrity. It's an opportunity to become a better person.

If you haven't actually read the article, you really should.

a reply to: AceWombat04

Well put, Ace, well put. Wisdom.

a reply to: imwilliam

We definitely do need the bridges.

desert looks through box of medals..... ok, here are some .... one for each of you

originally posted by: imwilliam
It's really a shame this thread has gone off topic and gotten as little traction as it has. It probably could have been one of the more productive threads on ATS.

Sadly, some people will read the OP (or the title) and respond to just those few words.

I'd probably most often be labeled as on the "conservative" side of issues. But I think it would be wonderful if there was free education, free health care and I don't believe that anyone in this country should go to bed hungry. What I haven't seen though, is a convincing plan for how to fairly pay for those things. Show me that plan, address a few other concerns and you could firmly put me in the free college and health care camp. (I'm already in the no one goes to bed hungry camp)

There are other examples, but I think for now the above serves to make my point. Just how much of an actual divide is that between a conservative like myself and someone on the left on those issues?

Not that much. My dear daughter-in-law is a conservative Christian (a real polar opposite) but we both love each other and we find a lot of common ground - the plight of the homeless here in Dallas, for instance. We both worry about the cost of education and about many other issues and have had good discussions (frequently along the lines of "I saw this program/idea - have you heard about it? What do you think?") Heck, I've even butted heads with a friend over the issue of energy and conservation in a public forum and we both decided we had similar goals but different ways we wanted to accomplish them.

Maybe in the end there are divides we can't bridge, but isn't it encumbent on anyone who identifies as intelligent, fair and thoughtful to at least explore the divides between us in good faith and bridge those that are bridgeable? I think that's what the author of article has done and why I applaud him for writing the article and Byrd for posting it.

Thanks.

Like I said, I found it enlightening and as I read it, I realized that some of the assumptions I had about people voting for Trump (i.e. "they love authoritarianism") was a bit shallow. While my old concept didn't explain (to my daughter-in-law or myself) why my daughter-in-law's parents were voting Trump, this article put the whole thing in better perspective. They ARE small town folks and so much of what was written actually seems to apply to things they said and attitudes they held.

And at least some folks have noticed the article now - and we're getting some interesting thoughts in this thread.

a reply to: Byrd


Byrd,


I'm working through a book called, "The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion" by Jonathan Haidt.

I'll be slow going through it, it's a challenge for me to keep everything he's saying straight. But if it's of interest to you and you get a chance to pick it up, I'd be interested in what you think about it.

It's another, I think genuinely honest attempt, at understanding and bridging the gaps between people.

Regards,

Billy

a reply to: imwilliam

Thanks for the recommendation! I've looked at some reviews of it, and it sounds fascinating.

a reply to: Byrd

The article is hardly a revelation to me at least. Even in New Zealand a country of 4.5 million people there is a divided between the main centers (Auckland , Wellington and Christchurch) , the main tourist destinations and the rest of the country or rural areas. Rural New Zealand lacks any foresight , willingness to embrace new ideas and they hate outsiders with a vengeance. The moron economists who grumble about small town NZ dying do so from the main centers without having spend a single day among small town life.

If you cross the Tasman Australians are a different kettle of fish in many ways. This is noticeable once you get out of the cities. If you move to the equivalent of small town NZ you will be welcomed with open arms. Coming back to the focus of the article really all that it proves is just how intolerant and ignorant so called Urban Liberals or Progressives can really be...