Investing in the Middle Class

Just curious about people's opinion on this talking point.

What does "Investing in the Middle Class" mean to you?

After you answer that, here's my follow up: Instead of 'investing' in the middle class... why not just cut out the middle-man, lower taxes, and let the middle class keep more of their own money to spend as they see fit? In the end, what is the difference?

a reply to: Teikiatsu

What does "Investing in the Middle Class" mean to you?

My answer would have to be Solyndra.

The government doesn't make things better without being over budget, over burdening or over reaching.

I'm over it!

a reply to: Teikiatsu

The difference is "investing in the middle class" means that the gubment takes everyone's money under the assumption that "they" know how to better care for your family than your family does.

The latter indicates that people, left to their own devices, can actually take care of themselves and their family and by extension, their community.

Words/phrases to look out for from politicians:

1) Investing in...
2) Comprehensive....
3) Equity/Equality...

None... NONE of those things are what they actually have in mind.

P.S. - Whenever you hear politicians say, "Despite the optics"...... run like hell.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Cut taxes and vital services that the middle class utilise will suffer.

As we now know, the laws are already in place for them to pay as little tax as possible, but who has the time for that when they're working their fingers to the bone.

Maybe making it easier to avoid tax would be the answer.

The majority of people avoiding tax are people who could afford to pay more anyways and wouldn't notice it in the slightest.

The system is rigged.


As for how do you invest in the middle class, nobody knows, and if they do they've kept it secret or their wouldn't be a middle class in the first place.

What does "Investing in the Middle Class" mean to you?

Divesting in the welfare class.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Cut taxes and vital services that the middle class utilise will suffer.

Examples please.

As we now know, the laws are already in place for them to pay as little tax as possible, but who has the time for that when they're working their fingers to the bone.

Why are they working so hard? Why are things so expensive?

Maybe making it easier to avoid tax would be the answer.

Like 47%+ of the country is now? Some are even subsidized?

As for how do you invest in the middle class, nobody knows, and if they do they've kept it secret or their wouldn't be a middle class in the first place.

Apparently our liberal politicians use it as a talking point, so what are they investing in?

originally posted by: eisegesis

What does "Investing in the Middle Class" mean to you?

Divesting in the welfare class.

Corporate, Banking or Social welfare.

Because the first two for sure are breaking the middle class.

Looking after the have nots doesn't help society or the middle class at all.
Despite the propaganda.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Examples please.

Policing, fire departments, ambulance services, armed forces, garbage collection I'm sure you can think of a few more important ones that will lose funding if you cut taxes.

Why are they working so hard? Why are things so expensive?

Crony capitalism.
Corporations and Insurance companies.

Like 47%+ of the country is now? Some are even subsidized?

So screw the have nots?
I see what you're getting at and it's well documented that welfare isn't the be all and end all of your problems.

Apparently our liberal politicians use it as a talking point, so what are they investing in?

You've turned this partisan.
Allow me, what have conservative politicians invested in?

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Cut taxes and vital services that the middle class utilise will suffer.

The middle class typically don't utilize food stamps, subsidized housing, subsidized healthcare and free school lunches. What "vital services" are you talking about? I have to ask because your next sentence is...

As we now know, the laws are already in place for them to pay as little tax as possible, but who has the time for that when they're working their fingers to the bone.

The laws are in place for the middle class to pay as little tax as possible....? The middle class are the ones that are making enough to actually pay taxes yet not making enough to "shelter" their incomes. I sincerely have no idea what point you are trying to make (which makes me believe you have a VERY different vision of "middle class" than I do).

Maybe making it easier to avoid tax would be the answer.

I think eliminating the federal income tax and replacing it with a national sales tax would be a start. This way EVERYONE is paying in. If you're rich and you buy a GIANT TV you pay X-percent tax on it and if you are middle class and buy a smaller TV you pay X-percent tax and if you are even poorer you buy a smaller TV you still pay an X-percent tax. This way even those that avoid our current income tax laws will pay their fair share... even those working "off the books."

The majority of people avoiding tax are people who could afford to pay more anyways and wouldn't notice it in the slightest.

I might agree with you in casual conversation but I tend to cringe when I hear one person state what another person "could afford."
My wife and I worked our rear ends off to get where we are and I can see how someone from the outside looking in could say, "Meh, they have too much. They don't need that much." (end mini-rant)

I thought about your question. I can't see a future middle class at all.

Sorry i didnt realize there was still a middle class. I thought it was either rich, poor, or more poor. My mistake.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

It's now socially unacceptable to keep what you earn.

So the middle class needs to be "invested in" with higher taxes.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Examples please.

Policing, fire departments, ambulance services, armed forces, garbage collection I'm sure you can think of a few more important ones that will lose funding if you cut taxes.

With the exception of the armed forces, those are city/local services, not federal. "Investing in the middle class" is a federal soundbite.

EDIT 1: Armed forces are a federal responsibility. And a liberal talking point is to reduce the military.

EDIT 2: The middle class does not actively 'utilise' the armed forces.

Why are they working so hard? Why are things so expensive?

Crony capitalism.
Corporations and Insurance companies.

You mean like the insurance companies we have been told we are required to purchase policies from, or pay more taxes?

Like 47%+ of the country is now? Some are even subsidized?

So screw the have nots?
I see what you're getting at and it's well documented that welfare isn't the be all and end all of your problems.

You started it by saying 'avoiding taxes' not me. I'm just providing an example.

Apparently our liberal politicians use it as a talking point, so what are they investing in?

You've turned this partisan.
Allow me, what have conservative politicians invested in?

As far as I know, that hasn't been a conservative talking point in the first place. Conservatives promote the idea of lower taxes and smaller government.

I thought it was pretty obvious from the start that this was a partisan question. Only one ideology says "invest in the middle class." Note that I said ideology, not party. Republican != Conservative.

I will be gone when the long awaited conservative plan is fully fulfilled. They want the US to be the New Jerusalem. And just like their buddies in the middle east, a land where only one class rises above all others. They don't believe in roads and bridges to anything. Once the middle class in the US has been neutered and given away all our institutions, then the mission will be complete. And 50 states will fight for resources like the middle east.

originally posted by: MOMof3
I will be gone when the long awaited conservative plan is fully fulfilled. They want the US to be the New Jerusalem. And just like their buddies in the middle east, a land where only one class rises above all others. They don't believe in roads and bridges to anything. Once the middle class in the US has been neutered and given away all our institutions, then the mission will be complete. And 50 states will fight for resources like the middle east.

...and what does that have to do with my questions?

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Your question has no answer. I can't see a middle class in the future. My previous post showed how that has been and will continue to happen. All "investments" will be toward wars and sending the rich to mars. Neither have a return for a middle class.

The poor dont pay taxes... the rich avoid paying as many taxes as possible that leaves whats left of the middle class to be graped...

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Your question has no answer. I can't see a middle class in the future.

So if there is no 'middle class' in your future, what is the point of the political rhetoric?

My previous post showed how that has been and will continue to happen. All "investments" will be toward wars and sending the rich to mars. Neither have a return for a middle class.

Your previous post was about new jerusalem and anti-infrastructure, no so much for war and interplanetary colonization.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Then how do you see the US sustaining a middle class? The goal for conservatives is to gut all fed programs and regulations except military and congress. With no federal support for infrastructure, education, social programs, what benefits do you see for a middle class? What jobs will come from more tax cuts. I can't see it. Corporations have had tax cuts for 30 yrs and the middle class has been shrinking and neutered with no lobbyists in congress.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Flat tax is the only way to insure everyone is paying the same. We need to stop discriminating on the bases of income.

Russia has a 13% flat tax, but the US politicians have huge powers in messing with the tax codes that are now over 70,000 pages. Plus the real rich people, the people that have their hand up the the politicians a$$es, working the weak kneed politicians like the tools they are, don't want a flat tax. That is why it will take a huge disturbance to get any real reforms done. It would take a middle class work stoppage to make it happen. Even then it may get ugly, real ugly.

To answer your question, any change in the tax code to help the middle class will be akin to jumping a car with jumper cables when everyone knows the installation of a new battery is what is urgently needed.



www.heritage.org... -miracle