ATS: Caution Urged Over Portrayal of Wicca in Popular Teen Magazine

Wicca is not a religion... it is a method of worship
I used to teach a "wicca 101" class, so i will pass on what i know.
for those that are unfamiliar.. the word "wicca" can be scary...
it shouldn't be scary, but it should not decieve you into trusting it either...

Wicca is a method of worship... I was a "christian Wiccan" for many years, until i found the dark side of wicca (there is a dark side of christianity also)
Wicca only asks that you worship in the ancient "wise" way... here are some examples to make them clearer:
1). the Midwives of all midevil townships were "wiccan"
2).the early apothocarys were wiccan, as were the village healers... they were the first people to notice the connection we all have to nature...
3).You could say that they all worship mother nature, but that wouldn't be totally correct...
4).you could say they all worship lucifer the light bringer (bastarized form of wicca emerged during late 19th century)
... but that would also fall short...
because in truth... wicca leaders tell you to worship WHOEVER you most connect with your beliefs of good and true... (mine were the christian trivurate, father, son, holy ghost) although most wiccans prefer to embody the spirit of all as a womanly form (maiden, mother, crone)
Then if you are a true wiccan, you learn how to manifest thru prayer... this is like a hyper version of christian prayer, but is more powerful, because it is with more intention/ritual... It is thru these complex rituals of intention (spells) that very large things can be caused to action. (best be careful what you wish for)
it is considered a universal truth among wiccans that if you wish/pray evil on someone, it will visit you 3 fold (some variations list it as 10 fold). It is because of this that i decided to become a "normal' christian again... I am very in tune with my spirtual self, But still did not trust that i would'nt misuse my prayer if prompted by anger.
The christian prayer of Jabez, is a famous wiccan prayer, that is said often as a mantra... I used it myself, to prevent me from accidentally causing harm to others...

To any parents that have a wiccan "wannabe" my suggestion is this... get some books, learn on the subject, and then MAKE THEM DO IT RIGHT! Right and true are the only ways wicca should be meddled with... THE ONLY WAY!... this will insure that your child will never DO DRUGS, SINCE THAT IS AGAINS'T TRUE WICCA. also they will fast for times to empower there rituals... that is alright and is often done by jesus fanatic teens also... so they wont be getting overwieight or being lazy... wicca also asks that we respect our bodies (jsut as christianity does)
it is a truly remarkable connection with spirit when practiced correctly... it is also a beautiful method of worship when properly respected... it is worse than heroin if done wrong...

The dark side of wicca is what a majority of worsipers eventually fall into... i call these the wardrobe witches, or the power witches... they get into wicca becasue of the "wierdness" and don't ever understand what they are doing other than trying to mess with the energies that flow thru life... (they are looking for a cheap effect)...
These people always follow a similiar downward path... They look to people like Alister crowley (who actually has nothing to do with wicca) and others that are dark forces... Many started with good intention, and some came back to it, but they all seemed to have a lapse thur the dark sorceries of the last century... many follow the necronomicon and spell books from Abri Melin and others...they are all following a NON wiccan path... that is the path of sorcery... and is different... but wicca is often the "keystone" of introduction into these darker paths. At one time i would have said that heathens or pagans are all good people...
I do not agree with that now, as i have seen that many follow these paths to justify there own bent traditions of family closeness (incest) and marraige (open) . Not all of course... but there seems to be a minority that have found acceptance of there publicly shown beliefs that are then abused in private...
I have attended many wiccan festivals and found many new friends thru them... but for every wise one i met, i met one dangerous one also...

Wicca is not a game, it is a method of prayer, that yeilds results more often than others i have tried. It is good, true and dangerous because of that.
It is no wierder than catholicism in its rituals and no more dangerous than dedicating yourself to jesus thru babtism... but those things are serious and should not be taken lightly... same is true with wicca...
the fact that is was in teen magazine, just shows me that it is getting far too trendy to be respected...

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
Wicca is not a religion... it is a method of worship

How is Wicca not a religion? Please define religion for me so I am able to see your reasoning before you explain why it is not a religion.

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
I was a "christian Wiccan" for many years

The idea of being a Christian Wiccan seems to be to be an abomination of Wicca, along with Christianity. Please explain to me how being a Christian Wiccan is possible.

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
Wicca leaders tell you to worship WHOEVER you most connect with your beliefs of good and true...

I can see what you are/were aiming at here with the Christian Wiccan idea, but I'm not convinced this information is accurate. What are your sources for the aforementioned quoted information? Because this information seems, at least to me, to be a bastardized form of Wicca.

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
the early apothocarys were wiccan, as were the village healers... they were the first people to notice the connection we all have to nature...

I have a feeling that there were people who understood our connection to nature prior to 500 years ago.

I appreciate the tone of the warning you gave to parents, telling them to inform themselves along with their children, but the following statement rubs me the wrong way:

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
the fact that is was in teen magazine, just shows me that it is getting far too trendy to be respected...

I don't see how that makes it too trendy to be respected...There are Christian Teen magazines and many other types of Christian media aimed at youth; wouldn't this make it just as trendy and not respectable? I know the response will be something to the effect of "But it was in TEEN MAGAZINE!" The venue shouldn't matter, just like Christianity the religion is able to gain recognition through mainstream media.

Moreover, tell me what about Christianity is so respectable anyway? What about Christianity is more respectable than any other religion or way of life (religious and non-religious)?

The whole wicca religion is a bastardized form...
It borrows from the ancient celtic wise women traditions, and from many contemporary darker sources... some of which walked sorcery paths.
Sorcery is nothing to do with wicca directly, but many wiccans do explore these paths.
contemporary wicca does not require the adept to worship any particular diety...(the symbols of the great lord and lady are also borrowed from other traditions) many are chosen for various reasons... I chose the christian triuverate, becuase unlike my fellow coven members, i had never been turned off by it. (I find that most wiccans i know had a very bad experience with Christianity, and were lost to it)
some worship mother earth and father sun, some worsip father sun and mother moon, some aradia, some lucifer, some cali, some ...blah into infinitum...
it DOES require the adept to worsip in a specific WAY though...
thru the spiritual connection with nature... and thru ritualistic prayer of

manifestation (spells) . I refer to it as intentional prayer... (very similiar to catholics)
when i refer to "true wiccans" i am refering to the ones who follow the path of light, of healing and of love. I consider these people to be more pure and in touch with spirit than most christians i know. This is why the article in a teen magazine upsets me... I take Wicca very seriously and feel that many people are better off with a "follower" type religion like christianity. Wiccans bear much more responsibility for the prayers and spells that they use. In short... it bothers me becuase now a bunch of witchwanabes will be trying to cast love spells before they understand that spell casting is the most dangerous thing you can do as a wiccan... (true wiccans have to bear the outcome of their spells...good or bad) it is a more proactive method of worship than any other.

so how could i be a christian and a Wiccan? when others would address the gods to which they gave tribute, I gave mine to "god"
I never really feel a controversy here, due to there only being one true creator and no matter what name or gender we give it, or how we divide it, it is none of the above... it will be the spirit of mystery for all until we meet it someday, and only then will find that:
yes yes... it was the mormons... the mormons had the correct answer and everyone else goes to hell...

[edit on 28-1-2005 by LazarusTheLong]

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
The whole wicca religion is a bastardized form...
It borrows from...

Using this reasoning along with some of the information I provided at the beginning of this thread, couldn't one also call the whole Christian religion a "bastardized form"? Does the institution of Christianity really teach the same teachings that Jesus taught, or does it base its teachings on the (mis)interpretations of some of his followers along with others who weren't within his closest circle of disciples?

I don't believe that any present-day "organized religion" can prove that they are not a bastardized form of some other principle of teaching...can they?

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
I have attended many wiccan festivals and found many new friends thru them... but for every wise one i met, i met one dangerous one also...

I have attended many Christian Churches and have found the same wise/dangerous ratio of people. Now, what I consider a dangerous Christian is probably different in regards to what is considered a dangerous Wiccan, but I consider these Christians dangerous nonetheless.

A dangerous Christian is similar to a dangerous Wiccan because, for the most part, they are in it for the wrong reasons (usually ones relating to self-righteousness) and can cause damage to others around them. This damage differs from that which you spoke of relating to the energy flows and such because it doesn't effect elements of physicality or deal with abstract metaphysics. This damage can come hidden and inlayed in non-abstract forms such as the act of conversion.

When a Christian attemts to convert someone, I believe it not only is an insulting gesture of degradation but also a personal attack. The sharing of theological, theosophical, and philosophical ideas and beliefs is an exchange that intellecually heightens any and all parties involved. However, these exchanges sometimes have alterior motives concealed within them, especially when a person in a delicate state of being is involved, and can creep awfully close to coercian (i.e. a Chrisitian approaching someone who doesn't know their god who has suffered something tragic and is finds comfort in the perposterous idea of promised love and eternal life etc...). These assaults are what I consider to be the acts of a dangerous Christian. We need to be just as aware of this type of people as we do dangerous Wiccans because they can both be harmful to us.

A continuing problem I see occuring within the Christian community is that of Missionaries. I do not find their compassion and relief aid anything close to problematic or evil of any kind, however, I would consider using these acts of kindness as leverage in order to convert them as a malicious and mischevious act. Who is to say that one's religion is inferior to another...they are all just fanatic ideas of grandeur anyway. I think that these tactics are a disgrace to those Christians who use their compassion for no other purpose except compassion.

I know I ended up standing up on my soap box in a sense, but it does relate to the previous postings regarding Wicca as a potentially dangerous way of life. I just hope that whether people believe in what I say or not, could at least look at where I'm coming from and check themselves sometimes.

Interesting thread on the origins of Wicca.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Present Situation

Seventeen magazine is currently free to publish whatever it wants – within the subtle limitations placed on all “free” speech or authorship. If they want to publish stories of Wicca, more power to them. Their call.

Dr. Walt Larimore is currently free to warn anyone he wants about Seventeen magazine publishing stories about Wicca, about the “subtle appeal” of the religion, and to label Wicca “Satanism” or “occultism” if he wants to -- again, as long as he stays within the law in doing so.

Customers of Seventeen magazine are free to buy or not buy the magazine if they want to. Whether or not they want to buy it is up to them, and is a decision that should be left to them.

I don't see a problem. This is how free societies are supposed to function.

Who's The Bad Guy? Everybody.

Ideologically, I see two systems of belief attacking one another. In the article, a girl promotes Wicca over Christianity. Dr. Larimore in turn denounces Wicca as "Satanism or occultism at its very worst."

The question of whether making these criticisms is right or wrong depends, ironically enough, on one's system of belief. So I doubt I'll see much agreement there.

Christians see Wicca as a threat, and Wiccans should see Christianity as a threat. Based on the historical track record so far, the Wiccans have a lot more reason to fear Christians than the other way around.

At Least The Government Isn't Involved – NOT

On the bright side, as long as America does not become a theocracy (Christian, Wiccan., Marxist or otherwise), then Americans need not fear being persecuted by the government for practicing their beliefs.

But only as long as that's true, and it is not currently true.

The federal government has chosen sides, favors some religions over others, grants tax exemptions and other benefits accordingly, has passed legislation against some forms of worship, actively promotes a certain official brand of religion in schools (Marxism) and continues to actively involve itself in religious issues even though the Constitution under whose aegis this is all done expressly forbids it.

That's why stories like these have the edge that they do, and will continue to as long as the threats of government persecution for one's beliefs continue to be a reality.

Here's hoping we get religion out of government (including Marxism, not just Christianity) and government out of religion. But I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.




[edit on 2/23/2005 by Majic]

Here's an absolute shocker of an idea... now brace yourself.

Perhaps, just perhaps there are good and bad people involved in every belief system in the world? Well there's a thought!

Perhaps not everyone who practices Wicca should be dismissed as an evil Satanic Pagan. Perhaps not every person who practices Christianity should be tarred with the same brush as the far right Christians in the USA, it is after all only a single country.

Perhaps those who desire to bash anothers belief at the drop of a hat should take a look at themselves and try to figure out what they are so unhappy with in their own lives. Or perhaps just grow up a little and accept that there are good and bad everywhere in this world.

Jack

Uh, from what I know, my mother is a Wiccan, several freinds are to.... and none of them are christian..... They are Wiccan.

Also, Witches can't believe in Satan, satan is a christian diety, created by christians, so only christians(and jews, same damn thing cept one eats pork) can believe in a satan, for he is a christian diety.

And witches were the first doctors, pharmacists, mid-wifes, shrinks, and basically everything else good and holy. Also, a witch can be male or female, a "warlock" is a christian name branded on male witches for warlock means promise breaker, for men are above women and have broken some promise to god according to christians.

Hmmm, so, not satanism, not evil..... This guy needs to get a life besides looking at girls that could be his grand daughter and beating off to it.

JAK

Majic

The two points I was going to make have just been made, eloquently I might add. Thanks for saving me the effort guys.

We absolutely should preserve individual religious freedoms in America.

We absolutely can make personal decisions on what to buy and who to endorse.

What's all this nonsense about wicca being 'dark?' Let me feed you wood smoked winter trout with sage and nuts, you'll be wiser by the time you're done eating.

Wicca is a hammer, people will use it as it pleases them, as has been stated. Again, good posts!

Lazarus
Religion is a method of worship.

[edit on 23-2-2005 by WyrdeOne]

I don't see where so many people are getting upset by this...

wicca is a more a method of worship than a religion, i refrain from calling it a distinct religion (although it is basically) , because a religion requires that you have a specific central diety/dieties... and wicca doesnt have one, but many... from Hindu dietys to celtic dietys and heros, even to my heretic example of christian dietys (hey, christianity borrowed the celtic gods, why can't they borrow some back)
it doesn't matter, because as ever wiccan knows... they are just symbols... innacurate ones at best...

the beauty of Wicca is the methods of worship that tie it to nature...
and that it largely removes the taboo of a distinct religious diety... thereby showing from the getgo, that it is a less strict and more tolerant method of worship...
i am not meaning to demean the spirit of Wicca, by saying it is a method of worship, and not a religion... the opposite in fact...
if all religions focused on the spirit rather than the "look" of a diety, the religious wars of the world would cease...

There is a stigma that hurts the good that wicca can be... and that is the true stigma that many Wiccans are not really wiccans... they are sorcerers... and they follow the dark path...
they hide behind descriptions of Wicca, so that no one will know that they are doing blood rituals or casting harmful spells. Look beyond the TV and realize the truth that casting a harmful spell is the ANTITHESIS of what wicca is...
so no-one that does so, can truly be a wiccan... (or they are soon warlocked)
so let me clear up that one statement...
there are no "dark" wiccans... only people who pretend to be...

and could every religion have the same issues? not quite... but close...

and as i said before... i have no problem with free speech, or with wicca being promoted... but the forum for it being promoted does bother me...
not enough to write letters to the editor or any such garbage, but i hope it wasn't captioned with something like... "be just like your favorite super gals on charmed".
because they have about as much to do with wicca, as islam does with judiasm... (some, but not to the same end)
I have just seen an extrodinary amount of "spell kits for the beginner" and "true black spell books" and "robe and belt kits for the beggining charm master" and the other plethora of new agey consumer goods that are about as usefull as a hasbro or mattel "catholic pope kit"

the consumerism detracting from the spirit of Wicca makes me sick... and when i finally got away from my new age store... there was no sacred vestige of Wicca left... no sacred spell books handed down from coven preistess to preistess, or sacred robes sown from ones own hands....
no sacred tools at all... they were all made in china...(but supposidly had the same moon blessings) yeah right...
sorry if any of this offends anyone... it shouldn't, because it is not telling you to think anything... just a big IMO

The Definition Of Religion

When in doubt on the meaning of a word, I dust off good old Merriam's.

From Merriam-Webster Online:

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
1 a : the state of a religious b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
- re·li·gion·less adjective

Based on this definition, particularly with respect to sense 1b, I consider Wicca to be a religion.

Your interpretations or choice of reference may vary.

djohnsto77 damn their soul to hell? This is your belief, not a fact

I have been Wiccan all my life as my mother and grandmother, and while I will admit that there are a lot of "wanna bees" around, Wiccans and witches are as serious as any other faith, and/or belief system. Most Americans form their view of Wicca from such nonsense dribble as TV's "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" or "Charmed," with their witches and curses, good and evil garblety goop. Wiccan worship focuses on respect for the Earth and its inhabitants with the main tenet of the faith being, "An it harms none....do as thou will" This includes not harming the self.
I have seen a lot of things I disagree with in teen magazines, and yet, they get upset over a peaceful, nature religion.....how typical!


EDIT: and for those uninformed

"Witchcraft is a legally recognized religion in the United States,as declared in 1985, Dettmer V. Landon (617 E Supp.529) the District Court of Virginia pursuant to rule 52a of the Rules of Civil procedure. Reaffirmed in 1986 in the Federal Appeals Court, Fourth Circuit, Butzner J. (592 F. 2d. 934) Henceforth, Witchcraft and Witches are protected under the United States Constitution (Amendment I;XIV) "

[edit on 2/23/2005 by LadyV]

Well said, lady V,

i was going to ignore the "critics" that cast judgements like that, and the ones that didn't understand why i didn't like Wicca being promoted in a "teeny bop" magazine...
it isn't the promotion... it is the medium...
you phrased it well, when you pointed out the ways that TV twists Wiccans into a "mysterious dark religion of calling up demons and casting fireball spells"...

Respect... lady V... respect!

blessed be...
merry we meet and merry we part... till merry we meet again...