Afghanistan, where great nations go to die

edition.cnn.com...
The question i poss, they question is, now be warned you my laugh, you may feel the need to grab your bellies in fear the laughter my ruputer your insides but.. were we fooled, did the communists fool us to participating in a war that would bring us to our destruction? Afghanistan, the place great nations go to die. was 9/11/2001 a ruse constructed to confuse a abuse to draw us into a war we could never win? It's possible, let's go back to the cold war. Shore it has been raging since the end of WW2 but in 1979 Russia entered into the Afghan theatre. ten years later they were no less than three years from complete destruction.
cold war
Now they have rebuild, is this payback, is it possible the soviets have been working behind the curtain to bring us to the same destruction?
War, War in the middle east. now bringing us to the future, capitalism, politicians now longer further the nation.. now they are in the business of getting elected whilst lining their own pockets.. the media is no longer in the business of reporting the news but telling us how to think.
Now looking at the USA presidential election we have two people whom if not running for president would probably be in jail?
Is this the end of the American empire? are we destined to be doomed?

a reply to: KungfuStu

I'm pretty sure we were winning until we pulled out... I'm sure you have heard about the creation of a vacuum for power in the region.

a reply to: GraffikPleasure

By pulled out do you mean still having troops deployed today? yes I get what you mean about the vacuum
of power.

This was just the second week of the Russian invasion. Nine years later they left with their tails tucked. But, our leaders just would not learn, not even to mention the lessons of Viet Nam. :

" In all, the initial Soviet force was around 1,800 tanks, 80,000 soldiers and 2,000 AFVs. In the second week alone, Soviet aircraft had made a total of 4,000 flights into Kabul.[91] With the arrival of the two later divisions, the total Soviet force rose to over 100,000 personnel.

We are freaking idiots for staying there one more day.

a reply to: MOMof3

This may be a first, you and I agreeing on something...

Nation building is not our responsibility. We went in to squash the Taliban, and for the most part, succeeded. That's where it should have ended. Once the Afghan military, or police, or both, were up and running, it was time for us to leave.

Whatever happens after that, is on the Afghan people.

But... Not quite how it worked out. More than a decade later, we're still there, and we shouldn't be.

a reply to: KungfuStu

The "War OF Terror is not meant to be "won".

It is the perfect way to guarantee perpetual for-profit warfare.

Hundreds of billions of dollars every year.

Theres no money in peace.

The invasion of Afghanistan (based on the 9/11 false flag), could have ended in a month when we had cornered the remaining "fighters". Instead, with the help of the Pakistanis, we air lifted thousands of them to safety.

It was dubbed the "Airlift of Evil".

Until we elect a Rand Paul or Gary Johnson, we will continue our policy of never ending warfare, massive debt to finance these wars and an incremental loss of liberties in the name of "safety".

a reply to: gladtobehere


I like those guys but they will never win so will never help solve our war problems. I am taking another path and looking to the future. I hope Democrats get back in power in all three branches of government? Why? Because democrats can be persuaded to popular views with petitions and protests about ending the war. Republicans will never end the war because of private contractors. All in my opinion, of course.

They don't call her the "graveyard of empires" for nothing... here's a nice list and a quote:
Alexander the Great circa 330 BC conquered Persia in 6 months and then spent nearly 3 years attempting to subdue Afghanistan. The losses incurred and the resistance faced were some of the contributors to the eventual fall of his empire following his death

In short, there a many reasons why this particular piece of candy is just too irresistible for would-be despots and/or tyrants.
ETA:
The challenge lies in the fact that the Afghanis are a tribal people, and do not want, nor do they recognize; a central government.

a reply to: blood0fheroes

Yes you are wright, I have read this. Sorry I may have gone on a tangent wit my OP. The question I ask Has Russia through the 9/11/2011 attacks drawn us into the middle east and afghanistan to destroy our empire?

a reply to: KungfuStu

No.

For a start, the faction that carried out the 9/11 attacks, Osama's mob (remember him?)... yes...They are an asset of the US intelligence agencies. Trained, equipped and funded by western interests as much as anyone else's. So, no, its not a Russian plan, and those who carried it out were not Russian assets, or acting in its interest.

a reply to: KungfuStu

Has Russia through the 9/11/2011 attacks drawn us into the middle east and afghanistan to destroy our empire?

If you are trying to imply that Russia was behind the 9/11 attacks, then the answer is no. At least they are no more complicit then we ourselves were. The cia funded and trained the Mujahideen. Once a cia asset; always a cia asset.
The truth of the matter is that Afghanistan had nothing to do with it, and was / is simply a useful scapegoat. From the wall street journal:
"The events of Sept. 11, 2001, of course, are known to educated Afghans, and to many residents of big cities. But that isn't always the case elsewhere in a predominantly rural country where 42% of the population is under the age of 14, and 72% of adults are illiterate. With few villages reached by television or electricity, news here is largely spread by word of mouth.‬"

From fox, 90% of Afghans have no clue why we are there...
The only reason we have a fight in Afghanistan, is because we are there...

This is a very tangled web, more suited to the 9/11 forum. Suffice to say if you look into how the uS has become involved in every major war for the last 200 years; it would be against our track record if we either knew nothing of the events to come and did nothing, or didn't orchestrate them ourselves.

Afghanistan is the graveyard of Empires. Alexander the Great, The British, The Soviets, US...

"You have the watches, but we have the time."

a reply to: KungfuStu

Hmm, also one of the seat's of human civilization, it was once fabulously wealthy and cultured, once but long ago before the savage Muhammadan's beat down the already broken door's.
A place that was so important that army's from long before and including Alexander the great's and right up to the superpowers of the twentieth and twenty first century's are still drawn to.
The people there today are not quite the one's that built that great civilization with it's mighty walled city's and merchant's caravans, the city of Zoroaster upon the river OX now just a mud brick ruin was once one of the greatest prizes in Alexanders aquisition's.

But today this land riven by ancient strife were many nation's and tribes such as one that is actually descended from Ghengis mongol's and now form's the weakest among them are constantly at war with one another in tribal dispute's, a place were the likes of extremists find free reign is indeed a place were many empire's and even modern superpowers have broken like the crashing wave's against a desolate shore.


A bitter and cursed land but also one that is in places beautiful while in other's harsh and inhospitable.

But Resources, proposed but never realized Oil Pipelines to capitalize upon the growing wealth of China and rare mineral's all make this cursed blood soaked land a coveted piece of territory as well as it's geopolitical potential if it could ever be rested from the hand's of the mad mullah's whom themselve's are descended from they whom murdered, butchered and enslaved those that already lived there when they came to take it, defenceless Buddhists, slightly less defenceless Hindus and Zoroastrian's but of course after there religious destruction of the holy site's of these other faith's as well as the established trade route's, farm's and merchant city's which had made them wealthy they did a good job of impoverishing that land long before the Soviet's or the Western Coalition ever left there own temporary footprint's in it's shifting sand's.

Even the British Empire at our peak once tried and failed though some would argue it was a half hearted attempt, the trouble is that you can never trust an Afghan, we made deal's with them like we had in india but they then felt free to break there deal's as and when it suited them, erstwhile allies then turned and butchered the retreating relatively small British including men, woman and children though likely many of the woman and children ended up as slave's.

A cruel and pitiless land indeed and one populated by an equally cruel and pitiless people with a strange liking for dancing boy's.


The only way to conquer such a land is the one way we can not do without becoming something we would hate, total medievil warfare eradicating not only the armed but also there community's and people.
IT is however and has to be said the way that the Muhammadan's themselves did conquer much of it before becoming so entrenched that the remnent's of they whom they had conquered had to convert to there way or face death from those that did so.

I think you'll find that Britain beat them twice in the 19th century.

The first and second Anglo-Afghan wars of 1839-1842 and then 1878-1880.

1st to combat russian expansion in what was known as 'the great game' so we have been 'playing' this game for a while now

edit to add: the above post is probably a more realistic assessment of what happened.

a reply to: johnb

We kicked the russian's arse in Crimea but as for the Afghan's we were not able to truly pacify them, even then they fought guerilla tactic's so to hold it would have been far too costly, instead we retreated to the Kybar pass and held them there, claim's we defeated them are wrong we did however defeat several afghan warlord's and of course there were punitive action's for the massacre.

For over 40 years' we tried on occasion to pacify them but it was impossible even then, one reason the penny jibail, a native musket rifle with a long range that they could make for the equivalent of a penny while our troop's just like today had to be trained, armed and then sent to that far away land at incredible expense.

history1800s.about.com...
blogs.brown.edu...
www.dailymail.co.uk... ions.html

Still it does have to be said we did better than any army since Ghenghis swept through that region, perhaps better than any army since the time of Alexander the great though you also have to recognise the russian's stayed for a long time though they did retreat and the more recent coalition forces did an even better job but cost's once again put the death knell to the operation, the only way to pacify it you see is to either wipe out the native population (not going to happen in our politically correct modern age though many among them would happily do it to us BUT despite that there is such a thing as becoming the monster you set out to slay) or to entrench a permanent heavily armed security force at incredible cost in manpower and resources which is also not going to happen.

Remember the joke about the Khazi of the Kyber pass.

Well the second war was like Crimea not about pacifying the native's but about keeping the Russian empire out of Afghanistan.
history1800s.about.com...
Just as you point out.