Tlaloc is the rain/sea god of Plato's Atlantis.

I agree with some of the other responders on this thread that I think you are on the right track in a sense. I do agree that the remains of what came to be known as Atlantis are in the Caribbean, and actually can be seen with the naked eye. The book Gateway to Atlantis by Andrew Collins hypothesizes that Cuba was the island that the legend spoke of and that it was also progenitor of the Yucatan culture. Here is a page with more information.

Atlantis/Cuba

He doesn't back up his claims as much as I would like, but many of his views are not so outlandish and can be toned down a bit to fit in to a quite logical sociological and anthropological model. I especially like his thoughts on the Carolina bays. Out of all the theories that I have read about online and in books this seems the most workable and should be investigated more. Unfortunately there is that nasty Cuban embargo....

Originally posted by Stari
reply to post by Harte

 

Wow Harte, it has been a long time. I was wondering where you went to. Anyhow... Did you even read what I wrote or did you just go straight to trying to disprove something that I think is dead on track

I said that I did not have the time at that moment to read the whole thread, but I did say I could not wait to read it tonight. Now time has gotten away from me and my real life has taken over I did not get time to read them tonight. Please do more research Harte. I even have a map I will upload as soon as I can and it shows exactly where Plato says Atlantis existed. Caribbean Sea is dead on track!

Stari,

I've been around, just not around here much, thanks for asking.

Look, you know it is my position that Atlantis never existed. There's no evidence at all that it did.

If you want to believe that Atlantis existed and was in the Carribean, fine. Believe what you want. But location (or existence, for that matter) was not what I was getting at. I showed you two specific examples where the OP was simply flat out wrong concerning what Plato said. It was these two examples I was talking about.

Surely you can see that the OP hasn't even read Plato but is proselyting on what Plato wrote!

To me, that is exactly the opposite of "you're soooo right!"

That was my point.

Harte

I know that Tlaloc is a rain god but to a Greek foreigner a water god would remind them of Poseidon their sea god. Did the Greeks have a rain god? Maybe Zeus made it rain. I'm not sure of that connection. I thought Poseidon was a god over the rivers and the sea.

How would an ancient traveller describe the mesoamerican civilization when it was at its peak? They probably didn't write it down. It would have been passed by word of mouth. This is assuming the two civilizations overlapped. I would say the more ancient mesoamerican culture is under water in the Caribbean. This the one Plato is talking about. I bet the event was expanded on to make it more of a great legend.

Originally posted by lostinspace
I would say the more ancient mesoamerican culture is under water in the Caribbean. This the one Plato is talking about. I bet the event was expanded on to make it more of a great legend.

I am curious to hear how you would explain the Atlantians vast army of war chariots, horses, heavily armoured soldiers and a thousand trireme style warships. Especially considering the meso-armerican civilizations barely even had knowledge about the wheel.

And even more interesting, how on earth elephants could roam the caribbean in such numbers that its the only animal of worth that Plato mentions.

[edit on 15-11-2009 by merka]

Sorry for the late reply merka. I've been away on a business trip and did not have time for ATS.

I believe Plato’s Atlantis is really a Phoenician legend. The horses, Elephants and numerous sea vessels are a trademark of the Phoenician empire. The Carthaginian civilization probably contributed to the elephant portion of the legend. The Phoenicians had contact with the Egyptians and it was the Phoenicians who started the Atlantis legend. I believe they had contact with civilizations in the New World and possibly had a colony in the Caribbean. It was their island that sank. I don’t see the Atlantis legend as entirely literal. I believe each of the twin sons mentioned in the Critias is actually a Phoenician outpost. They wanted to monopolize on the New World commerce and kept it a great secret.

My views have changed a bit since I wrote this post back in 2005. I don’t think there is a pure Meso-american Atlantis to be found in the Caribbean. I expect to find a Phoenician-Meso-american blended civilization lost at the bottom of the Caribbean.

Caribbean around 10 to 12,000 bc



World around 10 to 12,000 bc





Underwater circular structure in southwest Cuba (San Felipe Keys)



Idea Atlantis water rings



More Info
Atlantis Rediscovered

Gateway to Atlantis by Andrew Collins awesome book!!!

reply to post by atl4nt15


Thanks for posting atl4nt15. I enjoyed the pictures and research. Actually it was Andrew Collins who originally got me into believing Atlantis was in the area of Cuba. This was before the Canadian team discovered the sunken ruins off western Cuba back in 2001.

I looked in Google Earth to see the circular structure in question. Did you know there is a large rectangular vessel sitting right on top of the site when the satellite took the photo?

It looks like they are building or mining something right over the circular structure?

reply to post by lostinspace


thanks for comment on my post....the reason of Cuba an Atlantis..i always had an idea but cant explain in word what i knew....also about what you said about a vessel on the place i had no idea of it....but the reason i believe in Atlantis and Cuba its that it fits many of the description....and other sources i got info... and also Andrew Collins book its awesome..i read it and makes sense on what he explains....

reply to post by atl4nt15


I starting taking the legend seriously after reading the novel called Atla and after reading Andrew Collin's book Gateway to Atlantis.

Atla

In the novel the Phoenicians accidentally make contact with the Atlanteans and the story ends with the sinking of the island.

Originally posted by lostinspace
reply to post by atl4nt15

 

I starting taking the legend seriously after reading the novel called Atla and after reading Andrew Collin's book Gateway to Atlantis.

Atla

In the novel the Phoenicians accidentally make contact with the Atlanteans and the story ends with the sinking of the island.

edit on 30-4-2011 by lostinspace because: changed Atla page link to show cover first

Erf. What you're reading is not history, not "channeled" but fiction by a writer who lived in the 1800's. It's sort of like deciding that Atlantis is off New York City because you read some issues of Namor, the Sub-Mariner comic book.

Tlaloc is not Poseidon. Plato very clearly associates horses with the god of the sea ... and Tlaloc was a rain god, not a sea god. Horses are Poseidon's emblem and one feature of Atlantis was a race track and horse stables (horses were not in America at that time.) Other tidbits in the Atlantis story also confirm that he did mean Poseidon as the Greeks knew him.

I don't know if the original poster lostinspace's idea about Tlaloc being the rain/sea god of Plato's Atlantis is true or not, but using other angles and perspectives to try to discover evidence of past civilizations, land masses, and human history is certainly a good thing to try.

Exploring the cultures architecture, petroglyphs, literature, mythology, religion, etc might bring new information and connections unrelated to the general Greek Atlantis story, but a valid examination of said culture in its own context and possible new discoveries. It would be quite a project to study all the cultures in the Caribbean and explore the surviving literature and oral stories that mention these past situations, and that applies to any part of the world as many cultures had flood stories.

Originally posted by anotherseeker

Exploring the cultures architecture, petroglyphs, literature, mythology, religion, etc might bring new information and connections unrelated to the general Greek Atlantis story, but a valid examination of said culture in its own context and possible new discoveries. It would be quite a project to study all the cultures in the Caribbean and explore the surviving literature and oral stories that mention these past situations, and that applies to any part of the world as many cultures had flood stories.

Been done AFAIK by the many enthusiastic Atlantean believers.....

Originally posted by atl4nt15

Caribbean around 10 to 12,000 bc

World around 10 to 12,000 bc

Underwater circular structure in southwest Cuba (San Felipe Keys)

Idea Atlantis water rings

More Info
Atlantis Rediscovered

Gateway to Atlantis by Andrew Collins awesome book!!!

Awesome post.