Sit down Hillary let the Moderator Martha Raddatz do the debating for you

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Grambler
I'm just speaking frankly. You pick a fight, don't be surprised when the other side fights back. You can bitch and whine about it all day, but that's how it happened. Sure the media picks political sides all the time. And it isn't always just the left that the media favors. It's funny how y'all complain about the left's bias while ignoring the right wing media's even MORE extreme bias for the right. But regardless, Trump did himself no favors by constantly attacking the media with his constant hyperbole and lies.

First, did I say left wing bias anywhere? I said establishment bias. Bernie was more left than any of the politicians running, yet he was treated unfairly as well.

And second, the right wing media you speak of still heavily favors establishment right wingers. Turn on Fox, you will see just as many right wingers that dislike Trump as those that like him. Where do you see this on NBC, CNN, New York Times, Huff PO, or any other of these outlets? They are all in for Hillary.

You can knit pick all you want, the fact is that the vast majority of the media are extremely biased for the establishment, and everyone knows it.

You are free to make excuses for them now because you hate Trump, but don't complain when a candidate you like is in their cross hares.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Grambler

*Trumps spends a year and a half insulting and demeaning the media*

*media lashed out at Trump with extended negative coverage to the point they look biased against him*

*Trump supporters complain that the media is biased*

Lol no! Trump brought this attention on himself. He is 100% to blame for the way the media treats him.

Trump supporters complain when Media and Moderators dont call other candidates out when they dont answer the question...

Get mad when Trump is held to the same standard

This video does a pretty good job of encapsulating the Trump supporter mind set....

If I am not mistakken you are also not a fan of Hillary.

So do you think the main stream media is doing a good job propping her up? Are you ok with how they treated Bernie, Ron Paul, Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, or any other non establishment pick?

Are you ok with the behavior shown in the leaks that show the media taking orders from Hillarys campaign?

a reply to: Grambler

So do you think the main stream media is doing a good job propping her up? Are you ok with how they treated Bernie, Ron Paul, Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, or any other non establishment pick?

I think its deplorable how they treated Bernie, and Rand and Ron and many others, I also think its deplorable how they seem to have avoided alot of the issues with Clinton....

However this isnt about any of them, this is now about Donald and Hillary......

Are you ok with the behavior shown in the leaks that show the media taking orders from Hillarys campaign?

I havent seen these, but honestly in my mind that doesnt have anything to do with last night.....

I dont blame the moderators honestly, Trump interrupted like crazy, several several times they let him go on his rants and finish his thoughts, but yes many times they cut him off when he went over his time.......THATS THEIR JOB

As a person who strongly dislikes BOTH candidates, I saw them do the same thing with Hillary, what I DIDNT see, was Hillary interrupting every 20 seconds and going off on a tangent........

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

So Trump is responsible for the inherent bias of the mainstream media?

hahahahahahaha

Tho you're probably not joking.

Yea of course a Trump supporter could never accept that Trump would be to blame for his own missteps. Monkey see monkey do. Trump can't admit fault therefore his supporters never do.

So the media wasn't biased left before Trump, and Trump is responsible for the leftist bias in media.

???

Really?

a reply to: Grambler
Dude... I was a Bernie supporter in the primaries.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Which media? I see just as much media that is biased for Trump as against him. We usually call it the right wing media. Or are you trying to pretend like they aren't part of the media?

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: Grambler



I think its deplorable how they treated Bernie, and Rand and Ron and many others, I also think its deplorable how they seem to have avoided alot of the issues with Clinton....

However this isnt about any of them, this is now about Donald and Hillary......

I disagree. I think this election is about far more than Hillary or Trump. It is also about showing the establishments true colors. We see the FBI and DOJ acting in unprecedented ways to cover up for Hillarys crimes.

And we see the media being used as a propaganda machine for the establishment. I understand Hating Trump. But when we llow the media to be so one sided, and spew so much propaganda it is a unvbelievably huge problem.

Heck, we had people at the New York Times and other places saying they were willing to go to jail to release Trumps tax returns. And what would they show? That a man that will probably lose the elction anyways used loopholes to avoid payinmg taxes.

Yet these same brtave journalists are silent on investigating Hillarys felonies that endangered the lives of US service women and men. They are silent on investigating possible arms sales to ISIS that have led to innocent people dying.

This is bigger thaan Trump vs Hillary. This is about fighting a corrupt establishment propaganda machine, and until we do, someone like Bernie or the Pauls never have a chance at being elected.

I havent seen these, but honestly in my mind that doesnt have anything to do with last night.....

I dont blame the moderators honestly, Trump interrupted like crazy, several several times they let him go on his rants and finish his thoughts, but yes many times they cut him off when he went over his time.......THATS THEIR JOB

As a person who strongly dislikes BOTH candidates, I saw them do the same thing with Hillary, what I DIDNT see, was Hillary interrupting every 20 seconds and going off on a tangent........

It is worth reading up on the Hillary team influencing the media if you are interested.

But as far as the moderators last night, I have no problem with them telling Trump his time was up.

What I do have a problem with is their one sided questioning. The constantly folloow up with Trump and press him on answers, yet are silent with Hillary. Cooper wants to press Trump on his lewd comments, I am totallyfor it. But why give hillary a pass on her deplorable comments, or her not answering about her treatment of Bills victims, or her bklaming Lincoln for being two faced?

And the Raddetz actually started debating Trump on Syria. What a joke!

The main stream media and Hillary lost it at the presidential forum because they thought Matt lauer should have asked Trump more about his Iraq stance, and for being to hard on Hillarys emails. Can you imagine if he or another moderator came at Hillary like Raddetz came at Trump? They would be calling for blood.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Grambler
Dude... I was a Bernie supporter in the primaries.

Ok great! So why defend a main stream media that has been shown to work in cahoots with Hillary to help ensure Bernie didn't have a fare shot at winning the election?

Grambler: you have an excellent mind...period
Between and db cowboy I have nothing to add

That is all I have to say because u are a stud!!!

-Chris

a reply to: Grambler

Because I don't believe the ATS narrative that the media is 100% bought out by the establishment and instead believe that the media is made up of human beings just like you and I who come to their opinions based on a slew of different reasons that change per the person you are looking at. Are some of those people motivated by money or sinister reasons? Sure. But there are also others that aren't. Writing off the whole media as "biased" is such a laughably basic argument that it shouldn't even be had on the national level.

So I look at each situation individually on its own merits. I don't like outcomes of previous situations alter my thinking or seep biases into my narratives. Because rampant speculation based on biases just creates more bias and spawns attitudes like yours were the media can never tell the truth.

The best part of the debate, by a wide margin, was after Trump commented that Hillary should be in jail. Did you hear the crowd's reaction? They loved it! Hillary and the "impartial" moderators were mortified. The second debate most certainly did not go according to script

Also, Breitbart has a couple of good pictures of Bill Clinton after the talk turned to his track record with women. He looked like he'd rather be anywhere else on Earth at that moment.

originally posted by: tinymind
a reply to: soulwaxer

Your reaction is not all that surprising.

It was kind of refreshing that you would actually insert a reply to yourself.

Actually, I didn't state my observation so much to get a response as I did to simply point out what I had seen. My getting a response on any topic is kind of rare.

What are you talking about? I wasn't replying to your post, nor was I replying to my own.

soulwaxer

www.foxnews.com...

"We are all in agreement that the time is right [to] place a story with a friendly journalist in the coming days that positions us a little more transparently while achieving [our] goals," said the memo, which was first published by The Intercept. "We have [had] a very good relationship with Maggie Haberman of Politico over the last year," the unsigned document noted. "We have had her tee up stories for us before and have never been disappointed. While we should have a larger conversation in the near future about a broader strategy for reengaging the beat press the covers HRC, for this we think we can achieve our objective and do the most shaping by going to Maggie."

I am going to leave this here as the discussion involves bias and the msm.

Oh I am sure some will claim "the russians" are to blame.

originally posted by: Grambler
Yes once more the moderators were against Trump. At least he pointed it out last night. He should have grilled Lester Holt for his biased questioning.

I understand people hating Trump. He is definitely a person that can grate on you, and it would be easy to hate him for many reasons.

But even if you do hate him, you should be absolutely scared by what he is showing the main stream media for. This whole election has shown in black and white what many on ATS already knew, the main stream media is nothing more thaan a propaganda tool of the establishment.

These moderators are just the tip of the iceberg. They will skew the debates, skew what is covered after them, bury any negative Hillary story while focusing nearly 24/7 on Trump and bad things he has said.

They will criticize Trump for being negatove and calling names, and in the same breath call Trump and his supporters names. They have been shown in leaked emails to working actively with the Hillary campaign.

So even if you hate Trump, remember when you have a candidate that could be like Ron Paul or Bernie that the main stream media blacks out or attacks so the establishment can stay in power that we let them get away with doing it to trump.

Okay I get your point, as a liberal.

You are right. Regardless of someone's political affiliation, one should be horrified that the mainstream media can be used either direction as an attack dog for the establishment. Hillary is their choice.

Before any of you make this into a liberal thing, most of the media totally shilled for Bush Jr. all through the wars, torture, and Patriot Act.

originally posted by: JIMC5499

originally posted by: Grambler
This whole election has shown in black and white what many on ATS already knew, the main stream media is nothing more thaan a propaganda tool of the establishment.

The MSM is NOT a propaganda tool of the establishment, they are a propaganda tool of the Liberal Left. There is a reason why Journalism and Communications are Liberal Arts degrees.

False. The establishment is actually a mostly right wing oligarchy and military industrial complex. Classic right wing. The media shills for them. There is NO real left in the us, besides small pockets. Democrats are center or center right.

Also, so convenient of you to forget how the media totally propagandized for George Bush jr. and his evil escapades.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Grambler
Yes once more the moderators were against Trump. At least he pointed it out last night. He should have grilled Lester Holt for his biased questioning.

I understand people hating Trump. He is definitely a person that can grate on you, and it would be easy to hate him for many reasons.

But even if you do hate him, you should be absolutely scared by what he is showing the main stream media for. This whole election has shown in black and white what many on ATS already knew, the main stream media is nothing more thaan a propaganda tool of the establishment.

These moderators are just the tip of the iceberg. They will skew the debates, skew what is covered after them, bury any negative Hillary story while focusing nearly 24/7 on Trump and bad things he has said.

They will criticize Trump for being negatove and calling names, and in the same breath call Trump and his supporters names. They have been shown in leaked emails to working actively with the Hillary campaign.

So even if you hate Trump, remember when you have a candidate that could be like Ron Paul or Bernie that the main stream media blacks out or attacks so the establishment can stay in power that we let them get away with doing it to trump.

Okay I get your point, as a liberal.

You are right. Regardless of someone's political affiliation, one should be horrified that the mainstream media can be used either direction as an attack dog for the establishment. Hillary is their choice.

Before any of you make this into a liberal thing, most of the media totally shilled for Bush Jr. all through the wars, torture, and Patriot Act.

Exactly my point!!!

Its not a liberal vs. conservative thing. It is an establishment thing.

If it was just about a "liberal" media, why are we now seeing leaks that show how much they were working with HIllary to help bury Bernie, who was by far more liberal than her.

The media refused to investigate before the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and afterwards they just said "my bad" They refused to scrutinize the banker bailouts.

They carry water for Obama and refuse to report on his lies and failures. They cover for Hillary constantly.

Look how they tried to push for an establishment Republican like Jeb Bush in the primaries. Even supposed liberal outlets like CNN were praising how great of a politician jeb was.

You think Trump is my ideal candidate? Heck know. I was a Ron Paul man. But of course, the media had to bury him too because he wasn't part of the establishment.

And now with the medias attacks on Trump, we see just how powerful they can be. Non stop attacking of trump 24/7, blatantly admitting they would be willing to break the law to take down Trump, offering to pay money for dirt on Trump, all the while ignoring the ever mounting evidence of all of the terrible things Hillary has done.

Its time we stand up to these Gestapo tactics no matter what our political ideology is.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Grambler

*Trumps spends a year and a half insulting and demeaning the media*

*media lashed out at Trump with extended negative coverage to the point they look biased against him*

*Trump supporters complain that the media is biased*

Lol no! Trump brought this attention on himself. He is 100% to blame for the way the media treats him.

Trump supporters complain when Media and Moderators dont call other candidates out when they dont answer the question...

Get mad when Trump is held to the same standard

This video does a pretty good job of encapsulating the Trump supporter mind set....

If I am not mistakken you are also not a fan of Hillary.

So do you think the main stream media is doing a good job propping her up? Are you ok with how they treated Bernie, Ron Paul, Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, or any other non establishment pick?

Are you ok with the behavior shown in the leaks that show the media taking orders from Hillarys campaign?

I'm not okay with how the media treats non establishment people, left or right. I was a big Bernie supporter. It's clear that the media was closing the gates to him as well.

Clinton is an establishment puppet, not some left wing change maker.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Grambler
Yes once more the moderators were against Trump. At least he pointed it out last night. He should have grilled Lester Holt for his biased questioning.

I understand people hating Trump. He is definitely a person that can grate on you, and it would be easy to hate him for many reasons.

But even if you do hate him, you should be absolutely scared by what he is showing the main stream media for. This whole election has shown in black and white what many on ATS already knew, the main stream media is nothing more thaan a propaganda tool of the establishment.

These moderators are just the tip of the iceberg. They will skew the debates, skew what is covered after them, bury any negative Hillary story while focusing nearly 24/7 on Trump and bad things he has said.

They will criticize Trump for being negatove and calling names, and in the same breath call Trump and his supporters names. They have been shown in leaked emails to working actively with the Hillary campaign.

So even if you hate Trump, remember when you have a candidate that could be like Ron Paul or Bernie that the main stream media blacks out or attacks so the establishment can stay in power that we let them get away with doing it to trump.

Okay I get your point, as a liberal.

You are right. Regardless of someone's political affiliation, one should be horrified that the mainstream media can be used either direction as an attack dog for the establishment. Hillary is their choice.

Before any of you make this into a liberal thing, most of the media totally shilled for Bush Jr. all through the wars, torture, and Patriot Act.

Exactly my point!!!

Its not a liberal vs. conservative thing. It is an establishment thing.

If it was just about a "liberal" media, why are we now seeing leaks that show how much they were working with HIllary to help bury Bernie, who was by far more liberal than her.

The media refused to investigate before the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and afterwards they just said "my bad" They refused to scrutinize the banker bailouts.

They carry water for Obama and refuse to report on his lies and failures. They cover for Hillary constantly.

Look how they tried to push for an establishment Republican like Jeb Bush in the primaries. Even supposed liberal outlets like CNN were praising how great of a politician jeb was.

You think Trump is my ideal candidate? Heck know. I was a Ron Paul man. But of course, the media had to bury him too because he wasn't part of the establishment.

And now with the medias attacks on Trump, we see just how powerful they can be. Non stop attacking of trump 24/7, blatantly admitting they would be willing to break the law to take down Trump, offering to pay money for dirt on Trump, all the while ignoring the ever mounting evidence of all of the terrible things Hillary has done.

Its time we stand up to these Gestapo tactics no matter what our political ideology is.

Agreed, without criticizing ALL conservatives, too many falsely perceive the media propaganda as a vast liberal or socialist conspiracy. If this was true, Bush Jr.'s actions wouldn't have been supported and propagandized for by the media. AND, Bernie who actually is somewhat a more real leftist was totally blocked out by the media and gatekeepers. If this was some "vast socialist conspiracy," you can bet your ass they would prefer Sanders over Clinton.

But it's not.

Generally speaking, the media shills as you say for the establishment, which only really allows pliant candidates to run for the two parties. Then, once they are in office the media rarely does any real investigative reporting on let's say the Iraq War during the Bush war or the Libya and Syria regime change/proxy wars during the Obama/Clinton era. It's horrible.

In fact, they actively portray such topics in way specifically to create a belief system in the public that will support whatever actions the gov wants to take.

Noam Chomsky is brilliant on this matter in his exposes on "manufactured consent." I cannot recommend Chomsky enough for those that want both a scholar and one very critical of the government. I'm surprised Chomsky isn't discussed more on here, as he has been discussing these issues for decades.

hope.journ.wwu.edu...

There is a reason he is considered the OG radical or anti-establishment intellectual.

I don't know friend.

I think that most articles and other media I have seen are subtly pro-Hillary, going back to when Bernie and others were still in the race.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Grambler

Because I don't believe the ATS narrative that the media is 100% bought out by the establishment and instead believe that the media is made up of human beings just like you and I who come to their opinions based on a slew of different reasons that change per the person you are looking at. Are some of those people motivated by money or sinister reasons? Sure. But there are also others that aren't. Writing off the whole media as "biased" is such a laughably basic argument that it shouldn't even be had on the national level.

So I look at each situation individually on its own merits. I don't like outcomes of previous situations alter my thinking or seep biases into my narratives. Because rampant speculation based on biases just creates more bias and spawns attitudes like yours were the media can never tell the truth.

I might agree with you, except as a person who has a grad degree in international affairs, and has worked in international development in three different countries (and studied in another) outside of the US, I have become 100% convinced that when it comes to foreign policy much of the media coverage is totally propaganda. That's how it is viewed outside of the US too.