EU leaders threaten the UK over BREXIT.

a reply to: gladtobehere
Here we go the brexiters getting all agitated. Guess what all the EU is saying is what is already enshrined in EU law. All of sudden the reality is hitting home and out comes all the BS "The german car manufacture will not want any deals that harms their exports to their largest market, the UK". Therefore the UK will be allowed a trade deal that NOBODY else has. What a load of nonsensical BS. You lot are living in cloud cuckoo land. China/far east is a market of 18 trillion, the EU (even without the UK !!!!!!!!!!!) is a market of 18 trillion, the US/North america is a market of 18trillion. But the UK with its 2 trillion will be getting favourable deals! Dream on you numpties!

Leaving is very very simple:

1. The UK will be allowed full access to the internal EU market as long as it abides by the basic rules that every single fricking member, associate member or non member wishing access agrees to : free movement of goods, capital and LABOUR Tough fricking sh.t

2. Once article 50 is invoked the 2 years is a maximum , DEFAULT (FOR F....S SAKE) limit that applies should negotiations falter. After 2 years and there is no agreement then the country invoking article 50 is turfed out deal or no deal. Tough Sh.t. It (UK) has no say. But guess what ....it's all written down by the way. The European parliament can vote to EXTEND that limit if it wishes. In other words the limit is in the hands of the EU and thus the terms will be favourable to the EU and the UK HAS NO FRICKING SAY. Loud enough , get it?, understand?

3. I love this bit, the brexiters haven't a fricking clue, go look it up! The negotiations following article 50 are conducted according to article 218. That article allows the EU parliament to vote to change the negotiation period if it is in the interest of the EU. This means the EU could vote to end the article 50 negotiations with 1 fricking second if it wishes.

Bottom line: the 2 years is an arbitrary default limit NOT UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE UK DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The UK is screwed by leaving the EU. All this market BS, stock market nonsense etc etc. None of it will kick in with any true effect until article 50 is invoked. Once that is done then the ball rolls and there is absolutely no way in hell of stopping it. Then the markets and companies will make long term decisions. Until then it's all idle speculation.

Oh I forgot the Australian market will come to the rescue. It's huge .........

a reply to: Soloprotocol

You want sovereignty so you can instantly surrender it to a foreign power?

Quite a strange line of reasoning.

I personally think repealing the 1972act would be a better mechanism for leaving than invoking article 50 if the EU are going to behave like idiots.

The very idea that they seek some sort of punishment against a country for expressing their democratic right tells it's own story with regards to the cult of anti democracy that infest the halls of power.

Let's just get the hell out, introduce WTO tarriffs and be done with the whole thing.

I'm sure that within 6 months there will follow a plan for tariff free trade that doesn't involve stupid strings, and if not, then we will at least finally be in a position to organise deals with the Commonwealth which ought to offset the majority of negative consequences.

You see it as a punishment? I see it as fair trade. Go lookup how your government pokered when they went into the EU, they already got their special deals in the past, several ones. To think britain can leave the EU and keep only the benefits is naiv. To make clear that there will be no more exempts, isn´t punishment.

yorkshirelad´s post, I fully agree.

Charge everyone a 1000 pound if they want to holiday in the EU !

No tax on holidays to Canada , Australia ,USA , and whoever else who plays fair .

They need us more than we need them !
Watch the unemployment rate shoot up without the British holidaymaker .

That is one of our trump cards !

originally posted by: verschickter
You see it as a punishment? I see it as fair trade. Go lookup how your government pokered when they went into the EU, they already got their special deals in the past, several ones. To think britain can leave the EU and keep only the benefits is naiv. To make clear that there will be no more exempts, isn´t punishment.

yorkshirelad´s post, I fully agree.

The crux of the matter is that tariff free trade has been shown to make the buying and the selling economies richer.

By insisting on conditions and threatening tariffs if those conditions aren't met, the EU is effectively agreeing to make its own members poorer.

It isn't about special treatment for the uk it's about making us all better off.

Hence this talk of no free trade without conditions is merely punitive for the sake of punishing democracy. It holds zero value for EU countries, merely the EU organisation's hegemony over the member states.

I see the scots are just after the biggest breadcrumbs off whoever drops them .

Pull your finger out scots , stop pan handling!

What Merkel and Hollande are doing, alongside Juncker, is just crass politics. Both presidents are facing elections and both are under pressure from a groundswell of discontent about the EU. All three want to look tough, but just look panicked rabbits because without the UK to keep the EU relevant, the EU will slide.

The last think the EU's top brass want is the UK's position to be vindicated by their own populations. For Heaven's sake, the referendum produced a democratic mandate, which democrats should welcome. The panic is from the undemocratic EU who fear other nations may seek to test their populations with a referendum! If there is one thing the EU should take from BREXIT is that the EU needs to change its modus operandi, but what I see is more of the same - group think and sunk decisions.

If the EU want to just sit there threatening the UK then all that will happen is negotiations will be antagonistic. If the EU want to set the scene for constructive and mutually beneficial dialogue then they need to reign in people like Juncker and his ilk because, they are saying things that will constrain the hands in negotiations.

We know how this will go. The UK will end up with some reasonable concessions in areas of mutual benefit, and the UK will install constraints on the movement of EU labour, but with preferential treatment of Europeans. France will be keen to see financial services curtailed (because they will benefit), but they would not want their wine industry harmed. There will be give and take. We won't end up with free trade as that's a pipe dream of the "remainers".

We just need to look at the problems in the EU proper. In the Eurozone unemployment is 10%, while in the UK it's less than 5%. Some European countries are envious, notably France and now see BREXIT as their opportunity to benefit, although will probably forget that they export more to the UK than the UK exports to them - same with Germany.

What we have here is nose, spite and face. Politics and poor losers.

Its pertinent to mention that not All European countries are actually in the EU.
Norway, Iceland, Switzerland, Russia and others.

Im sure, if the people were given a voice, both Germany and France would pull out of the EU....maybe Greece, Spain etc also.

What did England and the rest of Europe do in Pre EU/Common Market days?

I understand the UK mainly traded with the Commonwealth Partners, the USA, a little with Japan, Hong Kong of course.....and everyone seemed quite happy and satisfied.

I think the European Union has forgotten how the World was..Pre EU. (after WW2)

The Germans seemed to have forgotten, it was England (UK) and the USA that helped Rebuild Germany (and Japan) after WW2......by feeding the people, providing security and stability, and technical knowhow (the Nazis killed many of their techs....and the Russians and USA stole the rest).

Germany and France would not be where they are, if it wasn't for the allies after WW2.

Such short memories.....no wonder they get all upset, when us Englander descendants still mention "The Wars"

(even tho the US and England and Frances were responsible for the rise of the Nazis in the 1930s...but thats another story)

First off the Scottish are comming off as big cry babies with severe cognitive dissonance. They didn't vote to split from the UK, something I had hoped they would do and I am English..I don't support the idea of Britain and want devolution for Scotland wales and for NI to be absorbed back into Ireland.
Secondly how can the scotch that want independence now..also want to be controlled by unelected rulers in Brussels? See the brain fog here..it's something I'd expect to hear from a radical feminist or black lives matter.

No, what Scottish cry babies want is the "perceived" benefits of being under EU rule..AKA EU bribes and the ability to leave cold and wet Scotland and live in Spain..because let's get it right, if someone dictates how many people can enter your country, they control your country and there is no independent state. So if these Scots are claiming they want to be a free state they are either in denial or are beyond stupid..which is it??? Like I said most remainers like the idea of freedom of movement if it means they can live elsewhere, so these people are not even real Scottish nationalists anyway, they are sellouts. How do I know this? It's obvious, because the biggest gripe from the pro EU brigade is indeed freedom of movement..but their alleged claim is that those who voted to quit the EU are "racists"..yet are we to believe people who want Scottish "independence" want to have their newly independent Scotland flooded with immigrants??? Because if that's the truth then why not stay linked to London as that has been the policy for over 50 years anyhow.

Nope the remainers are absolute sellouts for the prospect of freedom of their own personal movement..and if I can live in sunny Spain or Italy etc what the hell do I care if Scotland gets overrun with foreigners and the national identity is simply outflanked by Islam, which is not a damned race by the way, etc...well I wouldn't care would I because I'd be living in another country. These people who claim to want Scottish independence and be ruled by the EU are so full of BS it's laughable..they couldn't give a flying F about their country but like to blame everything on England..even the fact they voted to stick with bloody England. Not unlike black lives matter that can't accept blacks kill each other in huge numbers and nobody protests about that..they even kill whites about 80% more than whites kill blacks but nope, no problems there..no must focus on the minimum amount of killings done by one race against another instead..and call that racism! And still blame whites for everything.

☝️

Post above nailed it !

But they have there oil ?

I'll see my self out .

Also the complainers (much better name for remainers) are not very adept at reading situations or people. The French were already more Euro sceptical than the Brits before Brexit..wonder why?? Could it be continuous terror attacks I wonder??? And the prospect of more and more refugees, with the dead certainty that ISIS have piggy backed their way in???? That Merkle and the EU were put to the test and made a comple shambles of handling the crisis???

The French already have a socialist premier in Hollande, as typical in western democracies, when one centre right government doesn't perform well e.g. Sarkozy ..the public flip to the left and Hollande was elected due to years of austerity..now he has failed to protect the country from repeated attacks and now the predictable next move will be a swing to the far right in Le Pen.

People are not "racists" if they were liberals a few years ago, but people are reactionary. Extreme situations provoke extreme reactions and the far right will gain power in France and le pen has already stated she will call an EU referendum..when she does the French will vote in droves to leave. With France gone from the EU there is no EU. This is why the likes of Hollande is making his pathetic hardline threats against the UK..he knows what the reality is in France but he has miscalculated in his tactics. He thinks being hardline on Britain will scare other EU member states into submission but he is dead wrong. A union cannot succeed by making threats and using intimidation tactics..just like a broken marriage where one spouse tries to force and threaten the other to remain..that crap will go down like a lead balloon with the French people most of all. It's already all but finished but it's guaranteed that One more terror attack in France and its game over for the EU.

a reply to: Counterintelligence

To be honest this is a tough one for the Scots, regardless of the silliness of the "independence from the UK, but shackled to the EU" argument. The nationalist angle is just coded anti-English which is why racists attacks on English people in Scotland have risen in line with the the rise of Scots nationalism before and after the indie referendum.

On independence the Scots assumed they would become part of the EU fairly easily so exports c. £50bn to the UK and c. £11bn to the EU would be unaffected. In a post BREXIT world Scotland would be even more dependent on the UK to cushion their economy. A Scotland in the EU, but independent of the UK, where the UK is also outside of the EU is the worst possible outcome from the nationalists. Cue bleating about how unfair that is, except for the Scottish fishermen, of course, who will be quite happy to see the end of the Spanish and French hoovering up fish from their traditional fishing grounds.

Let's not get into the Barnett Formula that guarantees 20% more cash to Scots above the English for public spending - it's why Scots can afford free university fees, prescriptions and nursery. The Scots have had much less austerity than the English or Welsh because they have more money to burn.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: verschickter
You see it as a punishment? I see it as fair trade. Go lookup how your government pokered when they went into the EU, they already got their special deals in the past, several ones. To think britain can leave the EU and keep only the benefits is naiv. To make clear that there will be no more exempts, isn´t punishment.

yorkshirelad´s post, I fully agree.

The crux of the matter is that tariff free trade has been shown to make the buying and the selling economies richer.

By insisting on conditions and threatening tariffs if those conditions aren't met, the EU is effectively agreeing to make its own members poorer.

It isn't about special treatment for the uk it's about making us all better off.

Hence this talk of no free trade without conditions is merely punitive for the sake of punishing democracy. It holds zero value for EU countries, merely the EU organisation's hegemony over the member states.

The UK already had arguably the most privileged position in the EU with all the benefits and exceptions to many of the rules and costs. The idea that we will continue to have the benefits without having to play by any of the EU rules is unrealistic.

Countries that trade within the single market have to follow single market rules ( including free movement of people).

In the long run we may or may not be better off out if the EU, but we will not get a best of both worlds deal.

a reply to: Denoli

Haha yeah they do have some oil..but you'll find that same cognitive dissonance with that also because the typical pro EU blow hard, is also a social justice warrior..how do I know this? Well because they repeatedly site "racism" as a complaint against the anti EU side.

on a global scale European ethnic groups, are actually a small minority compared to African and Asian...so "white people" are the minority actually, so why is it that there has been an agenda and main stream media programming and decades of brainwashing and political correctness to convince us in Europe that not only is it humane and the "right thing" to have wave after wave of immigration, Infact unlimited basically, but that it's 'bad' and "racist" if we don't!

Do you seriously believe any African or Asian country would allow and not only allow but promote unlimited immigration from foreigners??? Would they hell, for obvious reasons..like it leading to the loss of their native cultures and identities for the most obvious thing. In fact the EU is the kind of organisation that would try to educate us all in how those other ethnic groups need "protecting"!!! No you couldn't make it up.

If human beings naturally wanted mass immigration on to their homelands they would never have had bloody wars would they!!! You know to keep invading cultures out!!! Duh!

So welcome to the mind of the pro EU camp...now imagine their stance on fossil fuels like oil...I'm sure our Scottish friend in this thread will protest about climate change but at the same time tell us how Scotland needs its oil.

a reply to: paraphi

I pretty much agree..

What we needed from Theresa May was a hardline stance back but I'm not convinced by her at all..suddenly pro Brexit after being pro remain, typical slimy polotician. At this point our leadership in England needs to hold its nerve but I can't see that happening. What benefits Britain and ultimately Europe is by undermining what's left of the EU by showing it up for what it is...the best statement May could use is something like "bring it on mother-truckers", something that might garner some bloody respect and show we are not one bit afraid and thus inspire a bit of guts elsewhere. The EU want to inspire fear so nobody will leave but we should be making them afraid..they are already but the UK is also..so you have two fearful sides and the winner will the the one who calls the others bluff.

the Greeks crumbled and humiliated themselves by bowing to the EU's demands just in order to stay in the club..a club that is abusing and raping that country...it made Greece look beyond pathetic..it isn't just us in the UK that saw that Greece has been humiliated by the EU, all of Europe saw it too..and I have faith most common people turned against the EU at that point..and if not then the refugee crisis and the repeated terror attacks were more than enough to shatter the facade of an EU that can even manage Europe, let along an EU that gives a damn about anyone other than international banking cartels.

a reply to: Denoli

That's actually a good idea. You would destroy Spain and Portugal as tourism is a major cash cow for them and I'd guess Brits make up most of those tourists..let's see how those two countries would want to stick with the EU under those conditions. the only thing it would screw up on this side is tour operators and airliners..but I think on balance a bit of pain for us would be a crippling blow to them. And I can live with seeing the likes of Micheal O'leary of Ryan air have a nervous breakdown.

Most of our trade is done with Ireland, we buy lots of produce from there and also sell them a lot of stuff. We would need an independent trade deal with them to override the EU..dunno if we have that already or not but that's urgent to sort out..otherwise ireland might be forced to leave the EU aswell..this is another bargaining chip.

In short if we can work something out with preserving the back and forth of Irish Uk trade and maintain a demilitarised border then we can pretty much carry on as usual..in fact prosper.

That's the reason I voted out .
Look after our own , yep that would be my first tariff .

1. 1000 pound per person to holiday in The EU .

2. 20 pound tariff on wine.

3. Blow up the channel tunnel .

4. Reclaim our fishing grounds .

5. Invest in wind turbine and wave energy in parts of the fishing grounds for sustainability.

a reply to: Denoli

Blow up the channel tunnel hahahahahaha, I think we can leave that idea to ISIS. There was a migrant caught walking over half way through it a few months back..so if you can gain access to it that easily then it probably will be targeted.

originally posted by: Counterintelligence
a reply to: Denoli

Blow up the channel tunnel hahahahahaha, I think we can leave that idea to ISIS. There was a migrant caught walking over half way through it a few months back..so if you can gain access to it that easily then it probably will be targeted.

lol I know , but that junkier pisses me off , merkel and that little cranky Scottish bitch .

I think people forget we're on an island pfft
Imagine if Germany was an island or France ?

We'd get a big fu