CCW Shoots Back, Kills Robber In Walmart Parking Lot

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: infolurker

Oh, I think I'm starting to understand how this works... since its a positive CC story, we should just accept every word of the employee's claims at total face value... but if it was a negative CC story, obviously the media are lying and we'd need some kind of evidence to analyze, before we could even consider accepting the claims as true.

The police said the shooting appeared to be in self defense. Not sure what more their is to add.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

My argument isn't with guns, its with people who're far too paranoid about how dangerous our world is in general.

Come to any US ghetto and then tell people that they're just "paranoid" for making a practical plan for self-defense.

Make sure you videotape your undangerous stroll through Camden, New Jersey or Southeast Detroit. That way you can show us just how paranoid we are.

Better yet, just go on a tour through the US and all of our major ghettos. I'm sure there is nothing for you to be worried about.

a reply to: hutch622

Geez mate , dont you know you cant question the American love of guns on ATS . You know this one incident outweighs the 13,286 killed by guns last year in the US . Bad Subaeruginosa . What were you thinking .

It is interesting how, when people are killed by attackers, they generally don't carry a weapon themselves.

It is weird how the people who do carry a weapon tend to actually be able to defend themselves.

a reply to: Dalan

Lakewood and Trenton are real hell holes too..I have family in Jersey I have not been there since my grandmother passed,and you couldn't pay me to go back,even for a visit..

Stroll through..ha ha ha...
Im nervous driving through with windows up doors locked and my dog in the backseat..a pitbull at the time...

Seriously..

~meathead

originally posted by: Dalan
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

My argument isn't with guns, its with people who're far too paranoid about how dangerous our world is in general.

Better yet, just go on a tour through the US and all of our major ghettos. I'm sure there is nothing for you to be worried about.

Your probably just asking for trouble if you walk though any area of any country that has a high poverty rate, if your not a local.

But as for touring the US in general... my little brothers doing just that right now, travelling right across the States. His absolutely loving it! I'm in envy of him, it would be simply fascinating.

He hasn't had any issues and sure as hell hasn't had any need for a gun to protect himself.

Yeah, bad things can happen to people in any country... but I don't personally believe the US (as a whole) is as dangerous & lawless as some of the 2nd fanatics make it sound.

I mean, its the right of most US citizens (depending on what state you live in) to walk around constantly strapped if that's what they want to do... but its also my right to say I think it would be a horrible & uncomfortable way to go though life... being to fearful to walk your own streets, without constantly carting a chunk of metal around with you.

More power to ya, if that's how you choose to go though life. It just seems like the opposite to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to me...

Anyway, I'll be in the States within the next year to check it out for myself... Who knows, maybe it'll help me understand the logic of the gun fanatics mentally a little better.... MAYBE.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

2nd fanatics make it sound.

That would be the media.

a reply to: DAVID64

It's just another aussie who's jealous that he can't have guns... pay him no heed... and is stuck rolling into a fetal position and hoping for the best if anything ever happens to him...lol

Jaden

If he was packing, chances are, he is store security/loss prevention.
Or, he simply had the weapon in a locker and armed up when going into the parking lot at night. Can't blame him there.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Well, to be fair (and intelligent about it), if the officers felt it necessary, I'm sure that they can access the Walmart surveillance footage--you can't tell me that you haven't noticed the dozen or more cameras focused on the parking lots at a Walmart building before.

And no, the attacker isn't innocent until proven guilty because Florida law states that, when attacked and you feel your life may be in danger, you can defend yourself, with deadly force if necessary. Take into account that the attacker was armed, and that even bolsters the use of deadly force.

How about you concern yourself with the fact that whatever the failed thief tried to take was not his, and he has no right to it, and should have known the possible consequence of such an illegal act but chose to take that chance anyway. Sometimes you reap what you sow, no matter what kind of ideological spin you try to put on the situation.

No one has a right to take something from someone else, but everyone does have the right to protect themselves from an attack.

Maybe the moral learned should be to not do stupid, dangerous s**t that can get you killed.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
My argument isn't with guns, its with people who're far to paranoid about how dangerous our world is in general.

What some people call "paranoid," others call legally prepared for the worse, and it doesn't hurt anyone to be so prepared.

What's your issue with that? How does the firearm that sits on my hip that has never jumped out of its holster and randomly injured or killed anyone affect you in any way? I also take some pretty intense self-defense classes as well.

I guess I just take my role in being able to protect my family seriously. It's not my fault that others may choose not to and then feel as though they should libel those of us who do. It's not about being paranoid, it's about being prepared for the worse when it's not an inconvenience to do so.

In theory, I will never, ever use my firearm for any sort of protection against another human being (and I hope that I never do), but I'm not going to the person who finds themselves in a situation who needs it and doesn't have it when I could have it and never need it. If you can argue against that with any real logic, feel free. Otherwise, don't worry about what we do here in the states, just because you feel it's not appropriate in some way.

And keep in mind--especially in this OP--the gun was obviously not carried out of paranoia, but for a reason, and sadly, that reason occurred. How you can hold the argument that you do in this thread is a pretty amazing feat of mental acrobatics. I commend you on that, at least.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

It's not about being fearful, that's my point. It is about being practical. It is the same reasoning behind wearing seatbelts.

Is it paranoid to wear a seatbelt or to keep a fire extinguisher in your home?

Why would carrying a gun be any different? I could use your same rhetoric: "I've been driving all over the US without wearing my seatbelt, I'm having a helluva time, too! Ain't been in no accidents, why worry? If you wanna be scared, then go ahead!"

a reply to: SlapMonkey

In theory, I will never, ever use my firearm for any sort of protection against another human being (and I hope that I never do), but I'm not going to the person who finds themselves in a situation who needs it and doesn't have it when I could have it and never need it. If you can argue against that with any real logic, feel free.

Well, I do love a challenge...

Ok, just say you've been put in a position where an armed thief is demanding your wallet... at this stage, aren't you just putting your safety & life at more risk by pulling a weapon on him?

Sure, maybe his gun jams or his just generally incompetent in the use of firearms. Maybe your training classes pay off... But still, its an incredibly big gamble to pull a gun on a person who already has one pointed at you... Especially when you consider the worst thing about having your wallet stolen, is the hassle of replacing all your cards and licenses.

Seems like you'd be putting you and your family at even more risk, simply because of a bruised ego.

don't worry about what we do here in the states.....

Who said anything about being worried mate?

Just indulging my curiosity, tbh.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Ok, just say you've been put in a position where an armed thief is demanding your wallet... at this stage, aren't you just putting your safety & life at more risk by pulling a weapon on him? Sure, maybe his gun jams or his just generally incompetent in the use of firearms. Maybe your training classes pay off... But still, its an incredibly big gamble to pull a gun on a person who already has one pointed at you... Especially when you consider the worst thing about having your wallet stolen, is the hassle of replacing all your cards and licenses.

There have been so many instances where the victim assumed cooperation would work only to be shown no mercy by the criminal.

Compliance isn't always a good policy. You should NEVER count on the mercy of a guy who is willing to kill you for your pocket change.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
Ok, just say you've been put in a position where an armed thief is demanding your wallet... at this stage, aren't you just putting your safety & life at more risk by pulling a weapon on him?

At that point, you give him your wallet--material things are not worth dying over. Apparently in your scenario, other than instilling fear in my, he has not assaulted me in any way, so there would be no need for me to consider deadly force.

And for the sake of intelligent argument, with which weapon is he armed? Knife? Gun? Bat/stick? Something else? This would dictate how, if at all, I would respond to the threat.

Sure, maybe his gun jams or his just generally incompetent in the use of firearms. Maybe your training classes pay off... But still, its an incredibly big gamble to pull a gun on a person who already has one pointed at you... Especially when you consider the worst thing about having your wallet stolen, is the hassle of replacing all your cards and licenses.

Seems like you'd be putting you and your family at even more risk, simply because of a bruised ego.

Ah, so it's a gun, got it--and now you're implying that he tried to fire and nothing happened--while that's a great thing, it still does not guarantee that the firearm is dead or useless by the attacker. But still, there are ways to distract an armed person, even if you give him your wallet. I know a few ways to actually USE the wallet to your advantage, but again, if my family is there, I'd have to weigh all of the option before doing so, to include distance of the attacker, aggression level, etc.

Regardless, the odds are that if someone is holding you up with a weapon and asking for money and you comply, they will leave you alive, and that's the most appropriate scenario to try and play out, especially if one's family is involved, because depending on his distance, if he's close enough, there's a good chance that I could attack and disarm him from his gun or stick (I would not really try with a knife unless there was no other option and he started attacking). But since your scenario uses a gun, and the most-likely scenario is that he will get at least one round fired off during my attempt at disarming him, I'm not going to take that chance with my family there unless, again, it was readily evident that he was not just going to take the money and run.

It's not until AFTER he is disarmed or while he is attacking me with his body do I draw my own weapon and contemplate its use. I have trained in the Israeli point-and-shoot method, which allows me to draw and fire off three round exceptionally quickly, so I do have that training and confidence booster as well, if I needed to use it.

In any event, disarming an armed attacker is always the priority if they aren't willing to walk away and you must engage.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Good post mate... starred it and now I'm done.

Peace

And no, the attacker isn't innocent until proven guilty because Florida law states that, when attacked and you feel your life may be in danger, you can defend yourself, with deadly force if necessary. Take into account that the attacker was armed, and that even bolsters the use of deadly force.

Stand your ground law....

originally posted by: Gazrok

And no, the attacker isn't innocent until proven guilty because Florida law states that, when attacked and you feel your life may be in danger, you can defend yourself, with deadly force if necessary. Take into account that the attacker was armed, and that even bolsters the use of deadly force.

Stand your ground law....

Yeah, the 'stand your ground law'! Seems like it was designed specifically to be exploited... lol.

Just say you've got an enemy who's armed & within eye sight... who's gonna prove any different? Just so long as there was nobody else there to witness it.

I'm sure it all comes down to what class you belong too though, as to whether you could get away with it or not...

The ignorance of the people who think that's an appropriate law for a civilized society!

Just sayin...