Are guns really the problem?

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Plus, you know, they are scary and black and go bang-bang real loudly.

That reminds me of the reporter that shot an AR 15 and claimed that the experience gave him PTSD and bruised his shoulder.

I saw a video in response to that where a guy put the butt of an AR to his nose and fired it repeatedly. "No bruises"!

First Gun owners get some grace period to turn them in, even beyond the deadline, without being charged with a crime.
The implication being, of course, that gun owners would actively resist confiscation, even to the point of shooting back.
(Don’t be silly).
The government has lots of records about you.
If you purchased a firearm since 1968, chances are that they have some record of it somewhere.
The next thing you’ll get from the government is an official looking notice that they think you still have a firearm. Their information will probably include all the information from registration forms, right down to the serial number.
That notice will tell you that you’re in violation of the law, subject to prosecution and imprisonment.
It will give you some period of time to surrender the gun.
It will also give you a very limited number of days to return the form with an explanation of why you don’t have the gun, any proof you have, and your signature that the gun was lawfully disposed of.
For many people the idea that the government “knows” they didn’t turn in that pistol or rifle and they have the detailed information about it will be enough to get them to surrender the gun.
If you think they’ll come at these multiple-gun owners with a swat team, guess again.
Their most likely tactic will be yet another letter (maybe two more) that generate what they’ll call “insufficient responses”. That means they can’t track a gun after you owned it.
This they’ll use for a search warrant.....
You’ve moved several times since you bought a gun?
Remember showing your ID when you bought a gun?
Remember writing down your place of birth?
Why do you think the government has so many computers?
Linking you to your new driver’s license in another state shouldn’t be too hard.
Think you’re safe because you had unregistered guns? Think again.
I would expect that the government’s database will contain a lot of old data.
Some of it might indicate that a gun was sold to a resident at your address.
If they can tie you to ammo sales or range use with your credit card in the previous 2 years you might get a surprise visit.

Or that seller might have remembered you bought that gun from him and filled out his gun notice to get “off the hook” for that gun.
I’d expect the government agents to check your neighbors to see which of them previously owned a gun and perhaps search their homes, arguing that your neighbor could have held your guns while agents searched your home.

Remember that at this point the government authorities don’t have much to fear from the general population.
And by the time your complaints are run through the mill, rejected and turned into lawsuits, they’ll have changed the rules.

Guns ain't a Problem.... Continents Are

a reply to: seagull

(I know...I was kidding )

I've looked at the .300, but ammo is just too expensive for my taste.

a reply to: butcherguy

Yeah, I saw that, too. My AR (S&W M&P15) feels like it has less recoil than my little S&W Bodyguard .380.

PTSD from an AR...gimme a damn break. That dude got all the ridicule that he deserved. I hope that he still catches s**t about that op-ed.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Very expensive. That's why I invested in the reloading dies and brass. Bought some brass this weekend at a gunshow, for both. Considerable savings will ensue.

This is a hobby that started when I was a little boy. My granddad, and my dad, and a couple of his brothers taught me everything I know about using guns safely and responsibly. Grandad was a doughboy in the trenches of WWI, a Wyoming cowboy, and a county sheriff during the Roaring twenties, Prohibition, and the Great Depression--The FBI hated him, and "investigated" him on a couple of occasions (translated: Tried to frame him.), fortunately nothing could ever be "found". Which was obvious, 'cause there was nothing to find. My dad and his brothers were all, at the least, WWII or Vietnam veterans, only my Dad got to "enjoy" Korea. Needless to say, they have quite a lot of experience to pass on. Safety. Responsibility.

The world is a dark place sometimes, with people who think what's mine, is actually theirs. I disagree with that, and I have the tools, and at least some of the skills required to make that disagreement stick.

Tools and skills I never, ever want to use. I've come close once, and rather actively try to avoid ever having to do so. But, the world has a habit of ignoring my wishes. After getting mugged/stabbed ('twas but a fleshwound, and he came out worse for wear, though he got away...), I got my CCW, and now carry legally, I also carry a small blade, and am considered paranoid by at least two people here on ATS....

No, inanimate objects AREN'T the problem. Just like spoons don't make people fat, cars don't make people drive drunk, and guns don't rob banks.

a reply to: seagull

I don't have as much of a military background in my family (although my wife does, and we both served), but my Grandpa did drive Priest tanks in WWII.

It wasn't until about 5 years ago that I got serious about protecting my family and re-attaining the skills and interest in self-protection and firearms. I carry everyday, and have for about 3.5 years now, and I also do pretty intense self-defense training, all in an interest to not be the guy who may have to helplessly and ineffectively play the part of the concerned onlooker if my family were ever directly threatened.

Like you, I really hope to never have to use a single round on a human being, or pull out my knife on a human being, or any other weapons that I may have on me (to include knees, feet, elbows, hands, etc.). But to be willfully ignorant to the dangers in society would be an even worse thing to endure, and it's better to know all of this and have a weapon than to need it and not have it.

I, too, and considered paranoid to some on here, and I'm okay with that.

a reply to: WUNK22

Are guns really the problem?
No , bullets are the problem the gun just enables them to kill people ....ban bullets!

originally posted by: Open_Minded Skeptic
a reply to: WUNK22

No, firearms per se are not the problem. The problem is that the US culture is steeped in love of violence, and there are far too many people here who are too damn stupid to know how to resolve a conflict in any other way. And this includes at the governmental level, at all levels.

This shows at all levels of the US culture. What do most parents do to discipline their children? It ultimately comes down to the use or threat of physical violence.

As long as the dominant culture in the US is sold on the idea that violence is the best first way to resolve a conflict, we will have problems.

US culture that is BULL. its the gang culture among black and Hispanic gangs in big cities.
all you have to look at is the rural US and the difference between city and rural gun crimes.

Here in Calif they keep making stronger gun laws that keep law abiding people from getting guns for defense.
but at the same time because of prison over crowding they have made it so a gang member with a long felony record caught with a stolen firearm gets out early because its a non violent crime.
Just because they caught him before he used the gun.
This is what you get from a democrat party run state government.

originally posted by: ANNED
all you have to look at is the rural US and the difference between city and rural gun crimes.

That's where we separate reality from anti-gun fantasy. The simple fact is that rates of firearm-related violence are not uniform across the country. Far from it. Once you start breaking it down by various subsets of the population, you quickly notice that a large group of gun owners...many tens of millions of them...simply are not committing violent crimes with their firearms. Given that, its a reasonable conclusion that the firearms themselves are not the problem.

No, the real issues here are cultural and economic, with the gang culture in our inner cities that you mention and general devaluation of human life on a number of levels in our society, combined with poor economic conditions and opportunities that lead many to desperation and criminal behavior. Combine those things and the violence in our inner cities is what you get, and until our society gets serious about cleaning up these problems rather than idiotic bans on inanimate objects that serve no practical purpose, the inner cities will continue to suffer this type of violence by one method or another.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Plus, you know, they are scary and black and go bang-bang real loudly.

That reminds me of the reporter that shot an AR 15 and claimed that the experience gave him PTSD and bruised his shoulder.

I saw a video in response to that where a guy put the butt of an AR to his nose and fired it repeatedly. "No bruises"!

I have held my AR 15 to my nose while training someone on firing a AR15 that though the AR kicked hard.
Just make sure that the AR is firing 5.56×45mm rounds.

I have heard of someone doing i with a AR barrelled in .300 AAC Blackout,
he broke his nose and hurt for the next month.

originally posted by: madenusa
First Gun owners get some grace period to turn them in, even beyond the deadline, without being charged with a crime.
The implication being, of course, that gun owners would actively resist confiscation, even to the point of shooting back.
(Don’t be silly).
The government has lots of records about you.
If you purchased a firearm since 1968, chances are that they have some record of it somewhere.
The next thing you’ll get from the government is an official looking notice that they think you still have a firearm. Their information will probably include all the information from registration forms, right down to the serial number.
That notice will tell you that you’re in violation of the law, subject to prosecution and imprisonment.
It will give you some period of time to surrender the gun.
It will also give you a very limited number of days to return the form with an explanation of why you don’t have the gun, any proof you have, and your signature that the gun was lawfully disposed of.
For many people the idea that the government “knows” they didn’t turn in that pistol or rifle and they have the detailed information about it will be enough to get them to surrender the gun.
If you think they’ll come at these multiple-gun owners with a swat team, guess again.
Their most likely tactic will be yet another letter (maybe two more) that generate what they’ll call “insufficient responses”. That means they can’t track a gun after you owned it.
This they’ll use for a search warrant.....
You’ve moved several times since you bought a gun?
Remember showing your ID when you bought a gun?
Remember writing down your place of birth?
Why do you think the government has so many computers?
Linking you to your new driver’s license in another state shouldn’t be too hard.
Think you’re safe because you had unregistered guns? Think again.
I would expect that the government’s database will contain a lot of old data.
Some of it might indicate that a gun was sold to a resident at your address.
If they can tie you to ammo sales or range use with your credit card in the previous 2 years you might get a surprise visit.

Or that seller might have remembered you bought that gun from him and filled out his gun notice to get “off the hook” for that gun.
I’d expect the government agents to check your neighbors to see which of them previously owned a gun and perhaps search their homes, arguing that your neighbor could have held your guns while agents searched your home.

Remember that at this point the government authorities don’t have much to fear from the general population.
And by the time your complaints are run through the mill, rejected and turned into lawsuits, they’ll have changed the rules.

They can only charge you if they can find the gun.
Always use the 5th amendment and don't incriminate yourself.

And here is a neat trick if you have to turn in the weapon.
on a AR15 strip down the gun to the lower receiver with the serial number on it. give only this to them .
never give them the complete gun.
www.wired.com...
On any other gun take a drill just larger then the barrel and run in down the barrel from the muzzle this will make Ballistics testing worthless.
There is the likelihood the government will test fire every gun turned in so that they can clear up old crimes.

No. Guns don't kill people. people do

LOL, murder and mass-killings have existed LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG before guns came around - since the dawn of time. Moot point. Try blaming PEOPLE next time.

Don't miss this one - its short and sweet:

Best 7 minutes on gun control I have ever seen!

Published on Feb 24, 2013: In this segment of his Virtual State of the Union, the Virtual President talks about why politicians want to talk about gun control rather than crime control, and delivers the factual evidence and historical truths that make the case for the Second Amendment self-evident.

Then, what's the real reason behind "GUN CONTROL"?

George Mason said it well...

"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."

Power corrupts, and absolute power currupts absolutely.

Protect our 2nd Amendment. Protect your right to defend yourselves.

You can make all the laws you want concerning guns, and CRIMINALS, will continue to disobey them. They are criminals, aka law breakers. Gun Laws only affect the law abiding citizen.