Thinking Homosexuality

a reply to: cooperton

It's always enjoyable conversations. All homosexuals I have talked to about it enjoy talking about it, they do not get offended - don't be offended for them.

Dont fool yourself ole wise one.

My son would get offended not because of your disgust with his lifestyle but with the ignorance that would knowingly come out of your mouth. lol

Lets get real ... naturally we are all born Bisexual. It is what it is. Read our history and seek to understand this isn't something I'm making up.

Love is a natural feeling and you cannot tell another who to love. I don't want to see an old man and young girl in love however back in the day it was the norm. As long as no one is pushing their will on me, to each his own and I believe that is how we should be but with each day this is becoming a circus of people being offended.

We have to stop pushing our beliefs onto others and allow the the same free will we our self want. Ya know.. the golden rule.

The line is only to be drawn when one is hurting another within their space of free will.

Murder, rape, molestation are a few examples of when the line is drawn.

a reply to: cooperton

So? Where do you get ‘normal equals natural’ from that?

Natural behaviour is not necessarily normal behaviour. Quote me the passage where I attempted to prove that it was.

It occurs everywhere is nature, and is thus God's will. I think thou dost protest to much.

Aha, someone has the OP's number....

originally posted by: cooperton
...
Correct. Homosexual lust, in my opinion, is just as detrimental as heterosexual lustful behavior. Detrimental in terms of coming to the truth of the sexual embrace.
...

If your actual problem is with lust why are you arguing about homosexuality?



By the way. Whatever happened to Astrocyte (the OP)? Haven't seen him since page 2...

a reply to: Gemwolf

My guess would be, because there is a caricature of homosexuals being lust filled sex fiends. As with all caricatures they are about as accurate as carpet bombing

originally posted by: MamaJ

Lets get real ... naturally we are all born Bisexual. It is what it is. Read our history and seek to understand this isn't something I'm making up.

I would not disagree, in fact, I would take that statement a step further and say all humans are bisexual to certain degrees - but the homosexual tendencies are often ignored or repressed by those who claim to be 100% heterosexual. I have seen such behavior in all of my "heterosexual" friends... I have my ideas on what this attraction is based on, but this itself warrants its own topic.

Love is a natural feeling and you cannot tell another who to love.

I agree. I love men I love women. Many confuse sexual intercourse with love, but they are not always the same. Sexual intercourse in its most pure form is love.

We have to stop pushing our beliefs onto others and allow the the same free will we our self want. Ya know.. the golden rule.

I have gotten berated on this thread for suggesting that same sex intercourse is not natural... I was not pushing my ideas, I was articulating why I think homosexual (and heterosexual) lustful behavior is missing the mark on sexuality. Many on this thread have claimed that behaviors of animals indicate normal or natural behavior in humans. Love goes beyond our base animalistic desires. The perfect marriage is when the internal forces are balanced, heaven meets earth and man and woman become one again. Love is the force that is compelling us towards such a fate, whereas lust makes us fall short on the journey to completing this game of love.

a reply to: cooperton

I understand all but the natural part too. There has to be a balance in nature and that's what you are missing... balance.

My son would tell you it feels natural to him. He isn't a hook up and has respect for himself. He wants to be in love and be able to love on the person he loves even if it's in public. Like men and women do. He gets jealous sometimes when he sees others having the freedom to give a hug or a peck on the cheek.

It's a hard life and not one he chose. He was MADE this way. That's natural!

I would not disagree, in fact, I would take that statement a step further and say all humans are bisexual to certain degrees -

a reply to: cooperton

It is a biochemical FACT, not an opinion to be debated and bandied about, like you have been doing here. EVERYONE has BOTH female (estrogen) and male hormones (testosterone) = bisexual. If you pump more testosterone into a woman, what happens? She will acquire male characteristics - facial and body hair, etc. And if you pump estrogen into a man, he will start to develop enlarged breasts, etc... this is how it is routinely done in the transgender beauty shop... you can go to Bangkok and Phuket and gawk at the beautiful and svelt "lady-boys" there. They even celebrate with pride their sex-shift in public contests held every now and then. If you dig into ancient Greek history, you'll find that humans were originally bisexual - yep they have both sets of genitalia, a hermaphrodite. It was Zeus who got Apollo (?) to separate them into two because the gods were frightened of their power!!

So, contrary to what is claimed esp. one based on opinion, there is really no DISCRETE DICHOTOMY in terms of two absolute and discrete poles/points - male and female. The opposite situation is already established in the corpus of scientific knowledge. Biological sex exists as/on a cline, a curve like the Bell Curve, a continuum, a scale of relativity and one that can shift up or down the continuum, depending on the biochemical combos, that is, on the relative PROPORTIONS of male AND female hormones. It is not a case of either male OR female, but a case of male AND female.

Unfortunately, our language does not faithfully reflect this scientific fact with regard to the VARIANT DEGREES of femininity/masculinity. The brutal linguistic fact of having only two words male, female [OK hermaphrodite as well, i.e. having both sexes] is therefore a far, far cry from describing the actual biological facts, and worse, using this fallacy then to naively, unwittingly or cruelly judge and incrimnate others is a crime against both humanity and divinity. If man and woman are made in the image of God as the Bible claims, then it follows that God would have to be androgynous. One presupposes the other. And yes, the proof of the androgyny of divinity can be found in one of the world's oldest religions - Hinduism. Each of the 3 aspects of divinity comes in pairs - male-female: [1] Brahma-Saraswati [2] Vishnu-Lakshmi [3] Shiva-Kali. If you care to dig into biblical history, etc. you will find that Jehovah had a wife named Asherah too. There was a BBC documentary on this titled "Did God Have A Wife?" I am unable to locate it now, so no links to it here. Hmmm probably removed, but why? Well, if you are still interested...

And if you care to dig more, you will also find that Eve was not Adam's first but second wife. The first wife Lilith rejected him and flew away [had wings, I guess] because she refused to comply with Adam's demands for the 'missionary position in bed', which she considered a subservient position relative to Adam's!! Yep, women's lib began here.

Interestingly, certain quarters are showing signs of coming round to sexual clarity through their verbal replacement of sexual deviant/divergence with sexual variant/variance to describe homosexuality.

Can one say that electricity [invisible btw] does not exist because an egotist thinks, feels, asserts or believes that it does not? That was precisely the scenario with Galileo who got imprisoned for heliocentricism because the Roman church THINKS, CLAIMS, OPINES, BELIEVES, THEOLOGIZES, PONTIFICATES that the opposite [terracentricism?] is true. And let's not forget Giordano Bruno, brilliant philosopher and scientist, who was BURNT ALIVE by the Roman Church for "heresy". Let's no forget the persecution and massacre of millions of Jews, homosexuals, etc. in Nazi Germany.

In essence, these are indicative of the human tendency of "the majority bullying the minority" and so we continue to have race wars, religious wars, genocide etc. "if they are not with us, they are against us." = intolerance = lack/absence of love.
So if you claim to have a heart full of love for humanity, then I suggest you practice what you claim here, by doing the "Namaste" each time you see another human being: male, female, homosexual, transexual, etc.

Namaste = I bow to the Divinity that dwells in you. It is a living tradition here in the East... India, Thailand, Burma...

a reply to: Rextiberius

If you dig into ancient Greek history, you'll find that humans were originally bisexual - yep they have both sets of genitalia, a hermaphrodite. It was Zeus who got Apollo (?) to separate them into two because the gods were frightened of their power!!

Not disagreeing with your general point, but this isn’t Ancient Greek history, it’s Ancient Greek fiction. The ‘two sets of genitalia’ story is from Plato’s Symposium. A group of men at a drinking-party are taking turns to give their views on the nature of love. Among the group are Socrates, Plato, Alcibiades and the comic playwright Aristophanes. When the last of these gets his turn to speak, he recounts a droll story about how human beings once had two faces, eight legs and two sets of genitals, before they were cloven in half by Zeus for getting above themselves. Love, according to Aristophanes, is the yearning of the sundered halves to be reunited.

It’s a joke, and everybody has a good laugh at it in the story.

a reply to: Astyanax

Sorry, that should read eight limbs.

a reply to: Astrocyte

Ultimately, animals feel. If you want to feel, maybe your desire will place you in an animal in your next reincarnation.

Sensation is happening all the time - everything you experience appears within the seeing and hearing of it. You do not have to 'want' to feel - do you want to see for it to happen? Seeing and hearing and sensing are happening regardless. If there was nothing appearing to be seen or heard or sensed what would there be? Could there be any existence?

Thought (thinking) tries to escape feeling. A feeling arises and thought tries to make sense of it - 'why am I feeling like this?' - or cure it with 'how can i stop feeling this? And thought makes feelings appear right or wrong - when feeling and sensation are what is happening and they are not right or wrong - they just happen.
Feeling/sensation is overlooked in favour of words and stories - lost in concepts.
All concepts arise within the non conceptual.

Brown nosing God, should be considered an act of homosexuality of great offense, that should be punishable by death and immense spiritual cruelty .

You know, being on ones knees, bobbing one head up and down, and speaking tongue, wearing dresses, bondage fetishes and enjoying their victims screaming OMG ...All sound like ...manly practices...

originally posted by: Rextiberius

EVERYONE has BOTH female (estrogen) and male hormones (testosterone) = bisexual.

Although it is more complex than just these two hormones, you are right - we all have the biochemical potential for altering the expression of these hormones which could alter sexual behavior. Epigenetics is the study of varying degrees of genetic expression; sex hormones apply to such mechanisms as well (GnRH, in part, controls Testosterone production and is controlled epigenetically: Link ).

Exactly how to balance these hormones through these mechanisms warrants another thread on its own, but I would take an intuitive guess and say love, altruism, selflessness, etc, would be behaviors that would lead the human epigenome back to its archetypal/primeval pattern.

originally posted by: Astyanax

Not disagreeing with your general point, but this isn’t Ancient Greek history, it’s Ancient Greek fiction...
It’s a joke, and everybody has a good laugh at it in the story.

He is not joking, he specifically says "I Am Serious..." during the dialogue you are referring to. Aristophanes in this monologue regarding male-female reuniting says:

"For if we are friends of God and at peace with him we shall find our own true loves, which rarely happens in this world at present. I Am Serious, and therefore I must beg Eryximachus not to make fun or to find any allusion in what I am saying to Pausanias and Agathon, who, as I suspect, are both of the manly nature, and belong to the class which I have been describing. But my words have a wider application--they include men and women everywhere; and I believe that if our loves were perfectly accomplished, and each one returning to his primeval nature had his original true love, then our race would be happy. And if this would be best of all, the best in the next degree must in present circumstances be the nearest approach to such a union; and that will be the attainment of a congenial love."

Aristophanes on Love in Plato's Symposium (Source)