Why Don't Women Ask Men Out on First Dates?

So, after decades of increasing sexual equality, why are women not assuming equal "risky initiatives" responsibilities? Even if doing so can be at times anxiety provoking and sometimes result in painful rejections that are difficult not to take personally, wasn't one of the goals of women's movement "equal rights, equal responsibilities?" Over this time period, many other aspects of gender-role behaviors have indeed changed -- for example more women than men attend college today. However, this part of the courtship script -- female indirect nonverbal proceptive signaling and male direct verbal initiation -- apparently has not much changed. This suggests that something deeper than arbitrary social gender role assignments may be involved in the development and persistence of this robust sex difference. The reasons for the persistence of this sex difference may be largely beyond our awareness because they involve evolved psychological adaptations that operate below consciousness. We may be able to articulate what we desire and what we find aversive, but we don't know why we have these feelings.
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I've given this issue a lot of thought, and my answer is that the key to understanding it is to consider what happens with homosexual women. Homosexual women have no choice but to ask each other out, so they do. Here are the arguments that I've seen for why heterosexual women don't ask men out on first dates that are disproven by the dating habits of homosexual women:

1. Social conditioning keeps women from asking others out

...unless it's homosexual women. That argument is debunked.

2. Women can't afford to ask people out

...unless it's homosexual women. That argument is debunked.

3. Fear of rejection keeps women from asking others out

...unless it's homosexual women. That argument is debunked.

4. Because women don't want to appear desperate

...unless it's homosexual women. That argument is debunked.

5. Because women don't want the one they're asking out to get the "wrong idea" (thinking the woman wants sex)

...unless it's homosexual women. That argument is debunked.

6. Because a woman asking someone out could hurt her reputation

...unless it's homosexual women. That argument is debunked.

7. It will hurt a woman's ego/pride to ask someone out

...unless it's homosexual women. That argument is debunked.

8. Because women want to feel "desired" and asking someone else out ruins that

...unless it's homosexual women. That argument is debunked.

Here are some arguments that don't belong in the list above:

1. Women don't ask men out because they're misandrist.

2. Women are biologically programmed not to ask men out.

3. Women are conditioned by society not to ask men out.

4. Women consider it to be a "test" as to whether a man likes them enough to ask them out. If a man doesn't ask them out, the man "fails the test." (A woman who has this type of worldview has to be very egotistical in my opinion).

Its happened to me twice. I like it. Do it more often ladies.

FALSE..Happens all the time.

a reply to: Profusion

my last two relationships were basically completely started by the girls.. I wouldn't call them average girls though haha..
Actually I always thought it was because you want a guy to ask you out, if a guy is too scared to do that he's not going to take control of other things like planning dates and stuff like that..

but I could be wrong.

That would play into gender roles of course.. And I think people are really getting confused over this now. If men and women are equal with no differences women start asking dudes out and paying for the meal damn.. Sweep me off my feet and make it romantic.. Write me some poetry, or play a boombox outside my house.. Pick me up in your fast car girl damn!

did that feel weird?

LOL

a reply to: Profusion

I guess it kind of the same as the whole animal kingdom . The male is always the one asking in its many forms .

Women(true) are fickle creatures, you have to either lure them , or learn them. Just being a man does not count for most, but not all women. ( I will catch hell for this statement...3.2.1.)

There is some merit to 3

But

I think it's a combination of two things

If the guy is not overly attractive to the girl, why would she bother.

Because

dating favors girls, why would they want to change the dynamic.

If guys want to date a girl, they offer to buy her things(drinks, food, entertainment) for some of her time. She gets to decide how much time she puts in. She has all the power with no fear of initial rejection.

a reply to: Profusion

Easy. What's the most simple answer as to why women don't ask men out more often??? It's the one obvious answer they don't address and it's right under their noses.

Because they don't have to.

a reply to: Profusion

This stinks of an opinion of a guy who really struggles with women and likely the women do not find these types attractive therefor they do not ask them out....

Plenty of women make the first move....

I had one girl Sarah, with no prior attachment, come by my house in Santa Cruz, California...riding a current HD(She rode rice rockets as far as I knew.)motorcycle. said get ready, get on back were going out. One of the best nights of my life, and some months to come. She pushed in everyone face that She rode us there to the bars...I had no issue with this.

I'm not a very outgoing guy and never had problems getting dates. Id wager about 80% were initiated by the woman.

Confidence is key, real or acted.

a reply to: jappee

It's happened to me several times in my life, but it's relatively rare.

a reply to: mOjOm

That's such a passive way to live your life. That's like leaving your life up to chance as far as I'm concerned.

If you wait for others to ask you out all the time, your only chance at a romantic relationship is who happened to be available when you were available...who happened to notice you at the right time...who happened to like you enough to ask you out.

It's like playing roulette with your life in my opinion. I think it's completely lame.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Ad hominem, red herring, cherry picking

That's some skillful trolling, but it adds nothing to the thread.

originally posted by: Profusion
a reply to: jappee

It's happened to me several times in my life, but it's relatively rare.[/post]

I have had more than half of my High School relationships promoted by the girl. (1986-90) and most since then as well. And I am only fair looking, but not shy. I would not consider myself even average in the looks department. I am pretty forward in conversations. And I approach women like any other human. I think it helps to not alienate them. Technically they're just one of the guys(but not one of the guys).

Girls/women do make the move. You have to see it.

edit on 9/30/2016 by jappee because: heck i can't fix it....narf

a reply to: Profusion

Omg... Brother...

the answer to this is so simple...

Homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with it... but!

Sex does...

Most women won't "ask out" a guy because they never need to...

Good looking women get attention... period

All women usually get a certain amount of attention from men... Literally unless said girl fell out of the ugly tree and got smashed by every stick on the way down.

And even then... they can still get a man IF they put themselves out there

Unfortunately in this world its the man that usually has to make the first move... it shows confidence... and THAT is what women look for.

If ye ain't got none of that... Good luck to you!

until later in life that is... lol

I can only assume you're just a pup...

Older women can be mighty aggressive

originally posted by: jappee
I have had more than half of my High School relationships promoted by the girl. (1986-90) and most since then as well. And I am only fair looking, but not shy. I would not consider myself even average in the looks department. I am pretty forward in conversations. And I approach women like any other human. I think it helps to not alienate them. Technically they're just one of the guys(but not one of the guys).

Girls/women do make the move. You have to see it.

I don't think you read the article in the original post. I think you're referring to "Nonverbal Proceptive Signaling" which is a completely different category than "First Time Risky Relationship Initiatives." How many times have you had a "First Time Risky Relationship Initiative" put across by a woman in your life?

First Time Risky Relationship Initiatives

First time risky initiatives are direct and unambiguous requests that have not been made previously, and that will either be clearly accepted or rejected.

...

Nonverbal Proceptive Signaling

In contrast, proceptive relationship initiation signals are typically open to various interpretations.
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originally posted by: Akragon
Most women won't "ask out" a guy because they never need to...

I'll repeat what I wrote earlier concerning that:

That's such a passive way to live your life. That's like leaving your life up to chance as far as I'm concerned.

If you wait for others to ask you out all the time, your only chance at a romantic relationship is who happened to be available when you were available...who happened to notice you at the right time...who happened to like you enough to ask you out.

It's like playing roulette with your life in my opinion. I think it's completely lame.

originally posted by: Akragon
I can only assume you're just a pup...

The ironic thing about this thread so far is that everyone seems to be assuming that I have trouble with the topic of this thread. The truth is that I get "hit on" quite a bit (especially considering how infrequently I go out). Getting attention from women is not a problem for me. This thread is about general trends in human relations. It's not about me at all.

a reply to: Profusion

Getting attention from women is not a problem for me. This thread is about general trends in human relations. It's not about me at all.

my apologies...

Perhaps i misunderstood the "homosexual" connection to the title of the thread?

a reply to: Profusion

WOW..
Chill

"Girls/women do make the move. You have to see it."

originally posted by: JinMI
I'm not a very outgoing guy and never had problems getting dates. Id wager about 80% were initiated by the woman.

Confidence is key, real or acted.

You have hit the perfect answer. Confidence is a powerful sexual stimulant. Asking the girl out is a preconceived test of confidence.

Happened many a time,especially when I was younger,kind of helped when your still working on your skills,some think girls should wait to be approached,but if you never venture you'll never know

a reply to: Nickn3

I see it completely differently. I believe humility is the cornerstone of success. Humility doesn't preclude being assertive when it comes to dating, but if women are using confidence as the one thing they must have in a partner, I think that's completely foolish (see the articles below). The articles below don't mention the Kruger-Dunning Effect which is a huge issue in this too.

Another problem with the idea of putting a man through a test before dating even begins is that it's such an egotistical thing to do. If I sensed a woman was doing that to me, I would probably consider her to be undatable because she had such a huge ego. There's still the roulette aspect to it that I wrote about earlier in this thread for the woman too. I can't accept any part of that line of thinking myself.

In a new book, Confidence, the psychologist Tomas Chamorro-Premuzic goes further, arguing that confidence is virtually worthless. On average, he reports, it's correlated with competence at about 0.30, which means the probability of the most confident person in the room also being the most competent is a paltry 15 percentage points better than chance.
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Yet, there is little evidence for the positive effects of high confidence, and a great deal of evidence for its detrimental effects. Furthermore, although much of Western society regards insecurity as a sort of character disability, there are many psychological advantages to low confidence, and several reasons for embracing our inner insecurities and self-doubts. Consider the following facts:

1. There is no shortage of confident people in the world: One of the best-documented biases of human thinking is the "better-than-average bias," which concerns the almost universal tendency of people to regard themselves as better than the average person in virtually any domain of competence.

...

2. There is no evidence that overconfidence breeds success: Henry Ford famously noted that "whether you think you can do it or not, you are usually right."

...

3. There is a high price for overconfidence: Our evolutionary ancestors developed confidence as an internal alarm system that alerted them about environmental threats.
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