For those of you who believe aliens exists...

This was brought up briefly in another topic, but it was never really looked at thoroughly.

A lot of us (including myself) believe that Aliens likely exist (or even that they most definitely do). However, I am curious as to how a religious person, who's religion may have stories of a heaven/hell or similar place, stories of and the concept of sins, stories of prophets, stories of god speaking directly to human beings, Humans being the 'ultimate creation', or Earth being a central focus of the universe, can simultaneously believe that aliens - particularly highly advanced ones - exist?

I don't quite understand how many religious ideologies have concepts like these could really coexist with the existence of alien life (be it insignificant or great).

So for those that are religious and also believe alien life is out there, may I ask how you've come to accept both?

a reply to: Ghost147

Grandpa, now gone, worked on secret programs (Boeing) including AWACS and other early warning systems. He was religious (Methodist), and stated that flying saucers (UFOs) were real, but not alien- his claim was that they were "demonic" in origin, sent to confuse and tempt us away from God.

a reply to: seattlerat

Interesting take on things. Although the post I was referring to in another thread stated aliens themselves

One take is that they are actually extradimensional demonic beings masquerading as aliens to deceive.

My personal thoughts on the matter are that God created it all, somewhat like a programmer creates the gameworld of an MMO. So God is outside of the universe He created. Therefore, anything inside the universe, even aliens should they exist, is His creation.

There are some who say that if this view is correct, then when it says the end will not come until the gospel has been preached in every corner of creation, it means every corner of the universe which means not for a long, long time obviously if the concept of God's chosen people and then Christ only came to Earth. Or, and I would think this more likely, if such a thing were to be true, God would speak to His children across the cosmos.

However, since such a thing as first contact has yet to occur and God doesn't/hasn't spoken personally to me about aliens in particular, anything I'm doing here is simply speculation. I do know that if aliens do come, it should be apparent to the discerning what sort they are soon enough although it might not be widely apparent to many.

a reply to: Ghost147

Religons are simply self-subscribed status quos...they are agreed upon "realities" within reality.Manufactured status quos within larger status quos.

Religons can be adjusted to incorporate anything imaginable,because they themselves are by proxy imaginary.

Funny question if you ask me.

You are basiclly asking how people blend these two different sized and flavors of status quo when new data is introduced to them.People dont change until they are told...until an impactfull status quo imaginary reality is constructed and aimed at them which alters their existing imaginary status quo.

Without telepathy this is how it is done....seeing as you are curious....and learning....lol.

originally posted by: Ghost147
This was brought up briefly in another topic, but it was never really looked at thoroughly.

A lot of us (including myself) believe that Aliens likely exist (or even that they most definitely do). However, I am curious as to how a religious person, who's religion may have stories of a heaven/hell or similar place, stories of and the concept of sins, stories of prophets, stories of god speaking directly to human beings, Humans being the 'ultimate creation', or Earth being a central focus of the universe, can simultaneously believe that aliens - particularly highly advanced ones - exist?

I don't quite understand how many religious ideologies have concepts like these could really coexist with the existence of alien life (be it insignificant or great).

So for those that are religious and also believe alien life is out there, may I ask how you've come to accept both?

One could look at it as demons and angels being intelligent alien beings.

The Biblical view is that humans are NOT the supreme life form. We weren't the first created and will not have supremacy over the Angels until some future date after the Earth is replaced.

The Angels, to me, seem to be incredibly powerful, incredibly intelligent, have free will and have their own issues with it. They do, however, seem to lack something that will stunt their future development. Think of like a hyperintelligent AI that will never know the wonder, and bond, of holding their new-born child.

It is particularly poingiant that although Angels could evangelise humans from first hand experience, that they seem to be restrained by God from doing so.

Also, there are some odd things in the Bible which may hint at other species other than humans, and not angels, who have been 'saved' through Christ.

The mistake, commonly made, is to assume that we will be as we now are. It is obvious that God's plan is that we become far more. We loose our physical bodies along the way but still eat, drink, sing, dance and party. We can stand in the direct prescence of God and also seem to be able to continue learning and living socially, indefinitely.

Perhaps we are merely part of a continuum of emerging conscious life in many forms. When we achieve our next level, we become responsible to elevate the next species down the line. There are definitely species who could rival us in brain to body mass ratios.

Jesus last admonition to us was that we must "Go into all the world and proclaim the good news to the whole creation". That injunction to proclaim to "all creation" is unusual and probably points beyond the human species.

a reply to: chr0naut

Hay digger.

Question.

Do you not believe that the angels of God cannot disobey?

Bearing in mind nowhere in the bible says the devil is an angel but it does say the devil having his own angels.

Also yhe rebellion war has not begun yet. Thats in revalations which is prophesy to come.

Coomba98

Ps. Them aliens are demon docos are very interesting. Even if i dont believe it.

a reply to: Ghost147

It depends I guess.

Religions can be funny old things, generally followed by the consenting mass by popular belief and usually considered a strong thread in the fabric of society. The honest truth is that most follow loosely if at all, a theologian will study and reassert the texts and a wilful acceptor might say all things are possible under God.

We've never came across cleverer clogs than our own whether that be terrestrial or otherwise and to be cheesy and quote the x-files, I want to believe.

As for religion itself, they are but institutions built on the foundations of faith. They can compartmentalize all they want and even find highly plausible reasons aliens might exist in correlation of how they say God works. It doesn't really matter does it? People will still have easy jabs sent with a grin at the apparent inferiority of the "religious" sort.

I believe in a creator or maybe it's a blueprint in an ever expanding pre-ordained thing we call reality, I really couldn't say Not only that but I reckon Jesus and Mohammed were human beings and talked about fundamental things we'll still talk about when we are out in the cosmos God/Allah be willing.

Light-heartedly I say this, we'll all exist together tomorrow just like the day after. God doesn't get in the way of this and neither should some would be aliens.

Gary Bates book Alien Intrusion is the best I can offer you, if you are really interested in a Christian understanding on aliens

To think you are going to get a satisfactory answer from ats in a reply to a question that is far more convoluted than a yes or no

originally posted by: Ghost147

A lot of us (including myself) believe that Aliens likely exist (or even that they most definitely do). However, I am curious as to how a religious person, who's religion may have stories of a heaven/hell or similar place, stories of and the concept of sins, stories of prophets, stories of god speaking directly to human beings, Humans being the 'ultimate creation', or Earth being a central focus of the universe, can simultaneously believe that aliens - particularly highly advanced ones - exist?

Many of the mentioned metaphysical and or physical locations related to what is perceived as HEAVEN or Hell and their said Angelic - benevolent or demonic - malevolent (non human beings) are basically alien to humans...
The Eternal human Spirit at times too seems Alien to its humanoid vessel?

a reply to: chr0naut

You know it might be over simplifying things but God apparently made us in his image, we certainly don't look like him/her it yet I'm guessing... I always figured it would be a quest of development, the good son analogy.

If you really look at humans with a discerning eye and compare us to our brethren in nature, we literally are the most vulnerable and weak animals, our knowledge discerns us from animals and without it we are feeble. But with it we have the power to lift everything and I mean EVERYTHING out of it's basic order of destruction and growth.

It makes me think about what we actually are now as a species, it's usually called progressive or hippy nonsense to care too much about the planet but personally I reckon in a religious, evolutionary and common sense way of thinking human beings have been designed to be keepers of this wee little garden. Like you said, maybe we can evolve others in a non-intrusive way to be more than the mere sum of themselves and teach them how we came to the conclusions of keeping a garden in a peaceful manner. A lot of our endeavours have been done due to necessity, we've learnt and we can teach too.

More than our life's worth can be achieved through peace and compassion, it's a beautiful thought that we could one day pass true understanding down to the "lower" species. Again simplifying things but it's called understanding, real understanding and when we practice it amongst ourselves it's a pretty awesome thing in it's own right. Mountains have, can and will be moved.

Apologies if this post seems like a ramble, haha. It probably is but your post struck sum bells and made a chime I like to hear, we don't need to focus on religion or aliens though. We need to focus on each other, Djinns from the smokeless fire be damned and angels wail at our accomplishments because we are humans and we can be seen in the light.

a reply to: Ghost147

I'm a Muslim & I believe the Universe (Multiverse?) is most likely teaming with life. I won't speak for other religions, but life on other planets would go along with the Qur'an's teachings. In fact, the very 2nd line in the Qur'an calls God "the Lord of the Worlds". So no problem here. Though I wouldn't be surprised if some denominations or schools of thought had different opinions of it.

In fact, my understanding of the Day of Reckoning is that on that day, our reality/dimension will be ripped apart, which will signal that the Day of Judgment is at hand. (Note: In Islam, the "end times" will come on the Day of Reckoning. That day, all living things will die, our planet will be ripped apart, and our entire existence will be destroyed. Then all of us will be revived and judged based on our actions on Earth. Those who passed will go to Heaven/Jannah and those who failed will go to Hell/Jahannam. It wouldn't make sense for only our planet Earth to be destroyed, because any humans living on colonies on other planets would "miss" this event.)

originally posted by: coomba98
a reply to: chr0naut

Hay digger.

Question.

Do you not believe that the angels of God cannot disobey?

Bearing in mind nowhere in the bible says the devil is an angel but it does say the devil having his own angels.

Also yhe rebellion war has not begun yet. Thats in revalations which is prophesy to come.

Coomba98

Ps. Them aliens are demon docos are very interesting. Even if i dont believe it.

Yes, I believe that they can disobey to some extent. It is clear that they are subject to God but able to oppose God's intention.

The Bible does suggest that the devil is one of the "stars of heaven" who leads the fall of 1/3rd of them. It also called him "the covering angel who protects" before he fell. It also calls him a cherub, which is defined elsewhere as a high ranking among the angels (and perhaps even a different species to the rest). The thing is, there is no particular clear single word for an angel in the scriptures and it has been filtered through a few translations and the attendant cultural concepts.

Also, in Isaiah and other references, the angelic rebellion is a "done deed". I actually think that the 'scenes in heaven' are atemporal and, for this reason, the fall and the rebellion is still in progress around us.

I know some x-ians who tend to simply believe that aliens came after man..that god didn't stop creating after man, that he is creating new worlds and civilizations all the time.

they will make it fit somehow.

a reply to: Ghost147

Sin is Universal and has nothing to do with religion, right or wrong is the concept that sin is based on, and that has nothing to do with whether aliens exist or not. Proof they exist? I see it everyday. There are definitely aliens on this planet, only they are not really aliens because, we are them.

a reply to: Ghost147

So coming from a very different spiritual bent than many you thought would reply.

My spiritual path has no heaven or hell, but it has the Otherworld, and it has afterlife(s). The idea of Aliens is not um well alien to me, or my faith. The deities of worship in my faith (the Tuatha de Dannan, sometimes called the Shinning ones) were said to have come to Eire in flying ships. They fought the inhabitants (the Fir Bolg) and made peace. They also fought "demons from the sea" (Fomorians), and won. They lost to the first Gaelic ancestors (the Sons of Mile), and retreated under the mounds/hills (sidhe), and are known to visit from the realm they inhabit (possibly the Other World).

With all that, why would Aliens be unusual?

Again as a Polytheist, this may be the reason its not strange to me, or against my faith. There are many possibilities, and "aliens" are not the most strange

a reply to: chr0naut

Would love to chat about that concept with ya but its off topic.

Coomba98

Did the OP asked what you would interpret extra terrestrial life "to be in reality" (i.e. inter-dimensional or demons)? I think he was asking how actual extra terrestrial life (confirmed not to be demons or inter-dimensional) would have an effect on your religious beliefs.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer
Glad you mentioned it. Typical won't answer your question directly responses so far. More I will change the definition of what I think is alien blended with current relative beliefs to cling onto.

a reply to: Ghost147

I believe the inter-dimensional hyposthesis and the conclusions of Drs J Alan Hynek and Jacques Valle, the "entities" appear to be demonic.