How do you arrive at what you KNOW?

As a regular practice, I listen to right-wing talk radio. I do so in order to hear what people who differ with me are listening to, interested in and how they publicly state their views. I try to listen to 15 to 30 minutes (a challenge with all, nearly 50%, the time taken by adverts to which I will not subject myself) and have learned quite a bit.

This has led me to the following question:

Just how do I (you) know what you know. How do I (you) come to your beliefs?

Following my own process for acquiring knowledge to found my beliefs on, I dug into the deep recesses of my mind and found:

Epistemology.

And found I had the equation backwards - I was assuming that beliefs were based on knowledge, but the 'study of knowledge' tells me it is the other way around. In fact, "That knowlege requires factual belief".

So Espistemology:

From Google:

e·pis·te·mol·o·gy

iˌpistəˈmäləjē/

noun
PHILOSOPHY
noun: epistemology

The theory of knowledge, especially with regard to its methods, validity, and scope. Epistemology is the investigation of what distinguis

A more detailed definition and discussion can be found at:

www.iep.utm.edu...

What, then, is the right way of arriving at beliefs?

In addition to truth, what other properties must a belief have in order to constitute knowledge?

We might begin by noting that sound reasoning and solid evidence seem to be the way to acquire knowledge.

By contrast, a lucky guess cannot constitute knowledge. Similarly, misinformation and faulty reasoning do not seem like a recipe for knowledge, even if they happen to lead to a true belief.

A belief is said to be justified if it is obtained in the right way.

While justification seems, at first glance, to be a matter of a belief's being based on evidence and reasoning rather than on luck or misinformation, we shall see that there is much disagreement regarding how to spell out the details

While I work on my own process and understanding, will you share your's with me?

We are all born Knowing everything that we will ever possibly need to know. The process of learning is actually the process of remembering what we already knew.

a reply to: FyreByrd

I would say pretty much what you said in your post, with one small change. I would change Right-wing to Left-wing in your 1st sentence.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Just how do I (you) know what you know.

You just know. Like you know your name, for instance.

How do I (you) come to your beliefs?

Once you experience or witness something, its not about beliefs anymore. Belief is a word used by people to back claims they have no evidence for.

Or for other 'non' believers to use against them.

Big difference between knowing and believing.

Knowing 2+2=4 isn't the same as believing it does.

originally posted by: JDeLattre89
We are all born Knowing everything that we will ever possibly need to know. The process of learning is actually the process of remembering what we already knew.

Hey, I actually agree with with you on that one (Rudolf Steiner says so too).

I'll rephrase the question for you: "What is your process for becoming conscious of the knowledge you already have?"

And ask another: "Are you born with beliefs?"

* evidence
* reason
* logic
* analysis

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: JDeLattre89
We are all born Knowing everything that we will ever possibly need to know. The process of learning is actually the process of remembering what we already knew.

Hey, I actually agree with with you on that one (Rudolf Steiner says so too).

I'll rephrase the question for you: "What is your process for becoming conscious of the knowledge you already have?"

And ask another: "Are you born with beliefs?"

I would say yes to your last question. It's called objectivity of morals. You can study that in depth. It's part of philosophy.

originally posted by: Starbuck799
a reply to: FyreByrd

I would say pretty much what you said in your post, with one small change. I would change Right-wing to Left-wing in your 1st sentence.

Is that something you Know or Believe and how did you arrive at that knowledge/belief?

Though reasoning or experience?

Do you listen to left-wing talk radtio? What is your knowlege based upon?

originally posted by: Starbuck799

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: JDeLattre89
We are all born Knowing everything that we will ever possibly need to know. The process of learning is actually the process of remembering what we already knew.

Hey, I actually agree with with you on that one (Rudolf Steiner says so too).

I'll rephrase the question for you: "What is your process for becoming conscious of the knowledge you already have?"

And ask another: "Are you born with beliefs?"

I would say yes to your last question. It's called objectivity of morals. You can study that in depth. It's part of philosophy.

I will look that up - Thank you.

It would appear that just an objectivity of morals would require Knowledge of the possibility of absolute obectivity.

disturbing thought there...yes

we only go....

for what we know....


scary to myself, he....he, like meaning what we think we know, that's all we got....best surrender to Jesus, I think. It's too scary.

a reply to: FyreByrd

AXIONS

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Starbuck799
a reply to: FyreByrd

I would say pretty much what you said in your post, with one small change. I would change Right-wing to Left-wing in your 1st sentence.

Is that something you Know or Believe and how did you arrive at that knowledge/belief?

Though reasoning or experience?

Do you listen to left-wing talk radtio? What is your knowledge based upon?

I watch a lot of news on TV. Both Left and Right. My beliefs and knowledge are based on both reasoning and experience. As you get older, both reasoning and experience get better. I am also a computer analyst, so I think very logically, drives my family nuts. They can never win a debate with me.

When I was younger, before I got a Uni degree in Computer Science, I remember not thinking that logically, more emotionally. As I grew older and programmed computers more, I learned to tone down the emotion, and ramp up the logic. I found that once I started to think more logically in my work, and gained experience in doing that, I brought it to my everyday life more and more. It was just a natural thing to happen, to me anyway. Once you become logical in your thinking, it just happens that you can no longer look at things without applying logic to just about every situation that you come across. I know it sounds cold, but it's not. Thinking logically has helped me in my life immensely. Like I said though, drives some folks nuts.

a reply to: Starbuck799

if we are " born with beliefs " - why does everyone seem to end up with the curltural beliefs of the society that raised them ?

Looking back at history helps too. How were things accomplished? Did they bear integrity? Accomplishment? Were things successful, or did they fail?

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Starbuck799

if we are " born with beliefs " - why does everyone seem to end up with the curltural beliefs of the society that raised them ?

Well, I'm not going to get into the whole study of the objectivity of morals thing here, it is a huge area of study. But I will start you out with a question. Do you believe that it is natural to not commit murder? If you do, than you believe in the objectivity of morals.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Starbuck799

if we are " born with beliefs " - why does everyone seem to end up with the cultural beliefs of the society that raised them ?

Sorry, I didn't answer this question in my last post. So here goes. It is simply not true that everyone seems to end up with the cultural beliefs of the society that raised them. There are many, many people who do not. But that usually takes time for those cultural beliefs to be overridden by their own thoughts and beliefs. This is why you see so many ISIS members being young, and why you see so many members of ISIS who happen to live to be older to leave that belief.

a reply to: Starbuck799

i believe that murder is perfectuly natural - but maybe i am using a slightly better definition of natual than you

do i believe that all and any murder is " right " or " correct " - no - but there are exceptions

i am a morrally flexible munkie - as you no doubt deduce by now

that is why i adhere to the premise of subjective morality

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: FyreByrd

Just how do I (you) know what you know.

You just know. Like you know your name, for instance.

How do I (you) come to your beliefs?

Once you experience or witness something, its not about beliefs anymore. Belief is a word used by people to back claims they have no evidence for.

Or for other 'non' believers to use against them.

Big difference between knowing and believing.

Knowing 2+2=4 isn't the same as believing it does.

Okay you are of the Empirical School of thought here.

And you don't just magically know your name. You experienced throughout your infancy and childhood when people would refer to you - so it was a learned knowledge based on experience.

So valid knowing can only be based on your personal experience?

originally posted by: GBP/JPY
disturbing thought there...yes

we only go....

for what we know....


scary to myself, he....he, like meaning what we think we know, that's all we got....best surrender to Jesus, I think. It's too scary.

How do you know "best surrender to Jesus"? How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Because is it easier? Because someone told you? Because you see it work in others? Because it works for you?

How do you know it?

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Starbuck799

i believe that murder is perfectuly natural - but maybe i am using a slightly better definition of natual than you

do i believe that all and any murder is " right " or " correct " - no - but there are exceptions

i am a morrally flexible munkie - as you no doubt deduce by now

that is why i adhere to the premise of subjective morality

Well, I believe that murder is not natural. I am a believer in the objectivity of morals. And that people who commit murder are mentally ill. There are no exceptions to murder being okay. You may be thinking of self defense or war, that is the killing of another person. These things are not murder. What I mean is, just because you knowingly kill another person, does mean that that killing is murder.