You have been lied to : Christians , Muslims , Jews - all worship the same God

a reply to: Raggedyman

The pope would agree with me.

http://_national_report_dot_net_/pope-francis-followers-koran-holy-bible/

Do you have anything to actually offer the conversation other than fear and hate?

I didn't come to my conclusion by going to read a website.
I came to it by using my mind and heart and actually reading the texts.

a reply to: boncho

I agree have you seen the BBC documentary When God was a girl?.
www.open.edu...

a reply to: boncho

Getting off topic: I agree with what you are saying.

I'm not saying that any of these religions are the "original" or that the people are the "original"

It would be impossible for me to know what happened so long ago (there are many different versions, and I don't personally agree with the current timeline)

But regardless of this : if you read the lineage of the texts and what the texts are saying - this isn't some encoded secret message -

These texts are all referring to the same God, not Jesus not Mohammad, I'm talking about God. (As described in the texts.)

All of these three religions share the same flaw at the core. Duality thinking (us vs them) that is the sickness that corrupts the followers and make them think they are spiritually special.

Any soul can experience the "divine" regardless of preconceived ideas of what the divine is. Stop believing simplifications that you have to follow a certain book to gain insight. Those ideas are only brainwashing and are not the objective truth on how a soul awakens/"increase in awareness".

a reply to: fatkid

You make a bold claim, and your only evidence is to claim that the texts are similar, and point to Abraham? You clearly have no real understanding of any of these, if you think they are all the same. Plus, who are you to tell people what god they worship? That isn't up to your understanding, or lack thereof. That is up to each person, and usually based upon the group to whose beliefs they subscribe.

Let me break this down for you. Christians follow the Bible, which is the Old Testament and the New Testament, a collection of books, with "Old" being pre-Christ", and "New" being His coming, life, ministry, death, and resurrection, with some events after that as well. Jewish people follow the Same books in the Old Testament, but many do not accept the New. Some, it should be noted, do. For Christians, and some Jewish people, it is believed that they follow the same God. Some Jewish people don't accept that, but that doesn't change how others believe.

Muslims, on the other hand, do NOT follow the same god. To claim they do, because of Abraham, and because their writings copied some portions of the Bible, is not even close to accurate. A connection with Abraham is there, but you seem to forget that there was a serious split, with Ishmael and his mother driven away. They did not follow in the faith of Abraham, and in fact, the Bible states that Ishmael wold be a "wild ass" among men, and that his descendants would greatly multiply, and that he would be "against every man". Now, look at Islam, set against all who disagree, acting in violence, and acting especially against Jews and Christians.

Now, compare the way the God of Abraham, the God of the Bible, is described, and contrast that to how Allah is described. They are nothing alike. Not even close.

Now, some may claim what you have, and pretend to have support for this, but that is because there are false teachers, who want to mislead people, and to bring about a one-world religion. Anyone who educates himself on the details, though, knows it's a lie.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

You misunderstand - it doesn't matter how "similar" they are - that isn't my point and I'm sorry if you think it has anything to do with it.

Your post reads
"who are you to tell people what god they worship?"
And then says
"Muslims, on the other hand, do NOT follow the same god"

It should just read "hi my name is ladygreeneyes and I'm a hypocrite" because, Muslims as a majority would disagree with you, and so would the Pope.

You just point out that "there are many differences in the description of God" but you offer none.

Obviously there are differences, nobody ever claimed otherwise: can you offer any evidence that they are not the same being - regardless of mans interpretation or your own agenda?

Trying to explain away "wild ass" and relating that to terrorism is just fear mongering, there are a ton of atrocious historical events committed by both/all sides that have lead to the current state of affairs in the world. Trying to place the blame on one party is to completely ignore a ton of history, and will get us no closer to peace.

Does the bible say Ishmael doesn't worship the God of Abraham?

Hitler was Christian, and that has absolutely nothing to do with anything - just like most of your post.

Gen17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

a reply to: fatkid

Hitler Christian? Sorry, you couldn't be further off base.


www.nytimes.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.trueorigin.org...

usminc.org...

www.cbn.com...

a reply to: fatkid

It doesn't say he does, either.

By your fruits shall you know them.

Compare the practices and demands of Allah along side those of the Biblical God and there is a difference at their core.

God did indeed bless Ishmael, but that does not mean his descendants are still following in the path of God. Plenty of times, the followers of God have strayed from His path despite His blessing as evidenced by the account of the two kingdoms when the worship of Ba'al was introduced by Jezebel alongside the worship of God. Or you could also look at the incident of the Golden Calf in the desert during the Exodus period when the Israelites wandered in the desert.

originally posted by: ketsuko

that does not mean his descendants are still following in the path of God. Plenty of times, the followers of God have strayed from His path despite His blessing

Ain't that the truth, what with legalized abortion in most Christian majority nations. With pedophilia rife among the priesthoods of all three Abrahamic faiths. With the most powerful allegedly Christian nation on Earth waging global warfare and destroying dozens of societies over 3 decades. And a POTUS who is clearly allied with the very worst sect of Islam against American interests. With the only Jewish state on Earth openly oppressing its Semitic brothers with blatant acts of Antisemitism by frequently attacking and advocating for the destruction of their Semitic brothers whose land they conquered. While ISIS commits crimes against humanity, their central American gangster drug running counterparts who on average follow a Catholic guidance commit similar atrocities in our backyard.

ALL HAVE STRAYED FROM GOD'S PATH, and we shall all be judged accordingly.

The common theme right now across the globe. With the exception of regional disputes, the majority of today's conflicts are traced back to societies who follow either of the three Abrahamic faiths, all of which worship the same God.

To your average non-aligned faith, it would seem the God of Abraham is the God of Death and War to the rest of Earth. It is those people who continue to ravage the planet and its people. The Chinese have yet to instigate a single conflict, destroy an entire society, or fund proxy forces to do the same in the last century. It occurs to me that neither have the Indians . I don't approve of how the Chinese handle their domestic matters, but the fact is they have not destroyed a single society outside of its borders in the last century or India.

Half of the world's population right there, majority of which are not aligned to the God of Abraham. Israel, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Europe, USA. These are the societies of the God of Abraham. These are the societies who are destroying the Earth beyond their borders.

The God of Abraham is the God of Death. Everyone should follow Buddha. Their people are not destroying the Earth and its sovereign societies beyond their borders.



Why are these three primarily allied in destroying the region which is the birth place of their faith???

a reply to: worldstarcountry

The elites worship Mammon. It's that simple.

Well duh, they just have different perspectives of 'God', but ultimately they worship exactly the same idea.

a reply to: GreenGunther

I agree. There is nothing ground breaking about OP's post. I dislike when people make the assumption that they're dealing with uneducated, limited in scope people and think they're dropping some sort of knowledge. This is very basic info that I think the majority of people know.

No offense, OP, but the "big lie" you're referring to is basic knowledge-- Religion 101.

Peace.

a reply to: zosimov

Its religion 101 to those f us with a free mind. Those who are beholden to one viewpoint though, this is either a revelation or blasphemy.

now, now....I'm late getting here , huh!!!

it is too...about Jesus being the son of god

by his perfect sacrifice....see

true, we don't understand why the initial need for sacrifice...something went down., am I right or what?.

but sacrifice of what....starting to cry, one's life. And He gave his life. teared a little when that made me think His announcement no greater love than to give one's own life,,,,wow that's hitting hard right now in my mind....,,.but sacrifice, it's an absolute truism!!!!

a reply to: fatkid

It is useful to go back to the most ancient records in order to determine which god is which, and the most ancient records we have belonged to the Sumerians.

The Sumerian myths record the creator of human beings as the benevolent "Lord of the Earth", named Enki (EN=Lord, KI=Earth). He was also called Ea, from which 'Ea'rth is derived. He created men at the command of the "Lord of the Air" Enlil (EN=Lord, Lil=Air). Enlil was a ruthless and murderous warrior god, also known as Bel, Ellil or El.

Initially humans were created as slaves for a great project that Enlil required - when the work was done, then he had no use for them. When the world became populated with humans, Enlil commanded that they be destroyed by various mechanisms.

“Ellil [Enlil] organized his assembly, Addressed the gods his sons .. the people have not diminished-they are more than before! I have become restless at their noise, Sleep cannot overtake me because of their racket!

Cut off food from the people, Let vegetation be too scant for their stomachs! Let Adad [the Storm God] on high make his rain scarce, Let him block below, and not raise flood-water from the springs! ..

When the second year arrived, they had depleted the storehouse. When the third year arrived The people's looks were changed by starvation. When the fourth year arrived Their upstanding bearing bowed ..

When the fifth year arrived .. A mother would watch the scales (at the sale) of her daughter. When the sixth year arrived, They served up a daughter for a meal, Served up a son for food.” (Atrahasis Tb. II - In “Myths from Mesopotamia”, Stephanie Dalley (2000), Pg. 26-27)

However, this did not satisfy Enlil, and when a cataclysm became imminent, he commanded it be concealed from men - they were to be given no warning, and all destroyed by a global Deluge. Lord Enki was commanded to silence by the council of the gods, ruled by Enlil - he was furious with that decision.

“The flood that you mention to me- What is it? I don't even know! Could I give birth to a flood? That is Enlil's kind of work!” (Atrahasis Tb. III, vii - In “Myths from Mesopotamia”, Stephanie Dalley (2000), Pg. 29)

After being bound by an oath of secrecy, Enki found a way around it, and warned the flood survivor Atrahasis by speaking loudly to the walls of his house. “Wall, listen constantly to me! Reed hut, make sure you attend to all my words! Dismantle the house, build a boat.” (ibid)

This is an identical story to the tale of Noah, however in the bible there aren't two gods involved - or are there?

“And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast .. for it repenteth me that I have made them.”. (Genesis 6v7) The title "LORD" is identical to the Sumerian title that Enlil claimed as his own "Bel" - it literally means 'LORD'.

However, who warned Noah of the coming destruction? “And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me .. Make thee an ark of gopher wood”. (Genesis 6 v13-14).

In the Greek myths we find there was also a Great Flood - a Deluge - called the Flood of Deucalion. “And when Zeus would destroy the men of the Bronze Age, Deukalion by the advice of Prometheus constructed a chest, and having stored it with provisions he embarked in it with [his wife] Pyrrha.” (Apollodorus, Library, 1. 7. 2, Loeb Classical Library, Trans: J.G. Frazer). In this myth we see that the flood survivor was named Deucalion - and Zeus was the tyrant who would destroy mankind, and it was Prometheus who warned him and he survived.

Therefore Enki is identifiable as Greek Prometheus, and also as Hebrew 'God', at least in Genesis. We also identify Enlil (also spelled Ellil) as the god known to the Hebrews as 'El' (Elohim), likely derived from either 'Ellil', or his title 'Bel' which literally means 'Lord'.

We will not go into all of the details here because it is a lengthy process - however concerning the nature of Enlil we find the following in the Old Testament bible, “Thus saith the LORD of hosts [Enlil] .. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.” (I Samuel 15 v2-3). This was a command to commit genocide, and it matches the warlike and ferocious nature of Enlil.

Just in case we thought this was an aberration, they do it again to another city. “And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD .. And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.” (Joshua 6 v17-21) This however was just a warm up, because later the 'LORD' commanded them to totally annihilate sixty cities in the same fashion. “So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also .. And we took all his cities at that time .. threescore cities [sixty] .. And we utterly destroyed them .. utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.” (Deuteronomy 3 v 3-7) Murdering and pillaging of course are not much good without pillage, so “all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities, we took for a prey to ourselves.”.

These incidents are only a fraction of the murder and destruction recorded in the Old Testament, but even this small sample clearly illustrates the character of that 'god' - murderous and cruel - he was called 'LORD', 'El' and also 'Yahweh'.

“Yahweh was not always God in Israel and at every social level. Rather, initially he belongs only to the storm and war gods”. (Theologies of the Old Testament, Prof. Erhard S. Gerstenberger, Pg.151)

“Yahweh was first and foremost a warrior God.” (Encountering Ancient Voices: A Guide to Reading the Old Testament, Prof. Corrine Carvalho, Pg. .79). This identification of Yahweh as a storm and war god matches the personality of Enlil. The tales and stories of the Old Testament, and of its 'Lord' clearly relate to Sumerian Enlil, and they do not relate to a creator 'God' - but rather a destroyer

However, the Old Testament undergoes a sharp transition after the book of Genesis - and the next book of Exodus is completely different. From this point forward the 'LORD' (Enlil) also has an adversary - who is named as 'Satan'. In the Mesopotamian myths a great dispute occurred between Enlil and Enki over the treatment of human beings .. this is related by the Flood survivor Atrahasis in his records inscribed on stone. “Enki and Enlil have become angry with each other. .. I cannot set my foot on Enlil's territory (again).” (Atrahasis Tb. III - In “Myths from Mesopotamia”, Stephanie Dalley (2000), Pg. 29).

(Continued)

a reply to: MatthewFreeman

Please check your mail...the little white envelope up at the top right corner.

a reply to: MatthewFreeman

It would make perfect sense that all humans were, at some point in time, imbued with the same myths, within the framework of their cultures, and with the inner knowledge of God (whichever name you wish to ascribe) and God's enemy (again, various names apply here).

The similitude seems to bolster the concept of one God and His adversary rather than refute. Do you agree?

a reply to: MatthewFreeman

In my research I have discovered there is precisely a 20,000 year gap between the events at then end of the book of Genesis and the events in Exodus. The rest of the Old Testament concerns the evil god Enlil, and the benevolent Enki is named as his adversary - Satan.

Genesis concludes with the death of Jacob - and there are many references to the "God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob". The logical conclusion is that that God is Lord Enki, but the god of the Hebrews is Enlil.

The New Testament "Son of God" is clearly identified as the son of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He is the enemy of the Old Testament god Enlil - in fact it names him as the Devil.

Specifically when Christ speaks to the Jews. “I speak that which I have seen with my Father [Enki]: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father [Enlil] .. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” (John 8, v38-44)

These were Jews he was speaking to, whose god was Yahweh - there is no ambiguity here - Christ identifies Yahweh as the Devil. Other passages clarify this identification; “Wherein in time past ye walked according .. to the prince of the power of the air [Enlil]” (Ephesians 2:2). The literal translation of the name Enlil is 'EN' Lord, 'LIL' air. “In whom the god of this world [Enlil] hath blinded the minds [of men]” (II Corinthians 4 v4), and “now shall the prince of this world [Enlil] be cast out.” (John 12 v31)

During the Antediluvian era, Enlil was the ruler of the inner council of gods - he was the most powerful god and the "God of this World". Later, after the battle between the 'angels' as recorded in biblical Revelations - he and his angels were 'cast down' and exiled on the Earth.

The literal meaning of all of this cannot be understood with a cursory examination - however, whatever I have learned on these subjects I have also written down.

a reply to: zosimov

There is only one story of mankind - and it is captured in every mythology. The myths have a duality - they refer to both cosmic gods, stars, planets and moons .. but also to living beings who were named after those same stars, planets and moons.

The story of mankind is an astonishing one, and one that stretches back far beyond orthodox theories.

a reply to: zosimov

It would make perfect sense that all humans were, at some point in time, imbued with the same myths, within the framework of their cultures, and with the inner knowledge of God (whichever name you wish to ascribe) and God's enemy (again, various names apply here).

The similitude seems to bolster the concept of one God and His adversary rather than refute. Do you agree?

But the knowledge contained within the culture can be erased violently through war and the destruction of temples and libraries and statuary containing text. Precisely what is commanded by Torah. The names are then forgotten (what we do know is seemingly recovered by the accidents related to archeology).

In a sense, the Allah character is presented very much like the late (5th or 6th century B.C.) monotheist Yahweh.

Isaiah 45:5 I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God. I will gird thee, though thou hast not known me;

6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me: I am Jehovah, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

Both Good and Evil Are from Allah
Question: A man says, "Good is from Allah, but evil is not from Him. Humans themselves create evil. People, however, included the belief that evil is from Allah in the Amantu [ formula of faith ] as well, though there is no such thing in the Qur'anic verses or Prophetic sayings." Please explain this topic with Qur'anic verses and traditions.
ANSWER
That both good and evil are from Allah is clearly stated in the Qur'an al-karim and hadith-i sharifs. All Islamic scholars to date, without exception, said that good and evil are from Allah. The belief that evil is not from Allah is the view held by the followers of Christianity, the Mu'tazilah, and some heretical sects. No Ahl as-Sunnah scholar stated that evil was not from Allah because no scholar can say anything against the Qur'an al-karim and hadith-i sharifs. Humans cannot create their own qadar. As a matter of fact, the Qur'an al-karim says (what means):

(If any good reaches them, they say, “This is from Allah,” but if any evil befalls them, they say, “This happened because of you.” Say: “All things are from Allah.” What is wrong with these people that they do not understand any word?) [ An-Nisa' 78 ]

(We decreed that the wife of Lut should undergo torment.) [ Al-Hijr 60] (That is, We wrote her such a bad qadar.)

(Those for whom We decreed a good end [ those whose qadar is good] will be kept away from Hell.) [ Al-Anbiya' 101]
. . .

It is after monotheism is created that a Satan(adversary) is created post exile period eg book of Zechariah.

It may be possible that Gospel of John is written in such a way as to go back to a two separate deity scenario (as per MatthewFreeman), but I haven't looked at it in that way yet, so can't say if I agree or disagree.